Interviewing Goths

[Pyre]

Either PM me or leave your information here if you are interested in being interviewed some time in the future about your lifestyle. Keep in mind, this is only for people who actually consider themselves as goths and are accepted by other members of the subculture as being goth (for authenticity's sake). If you think "well, I don't call myself a goth, but I do heed to its ideals," then this interview may not be for you, but you can still leave me a message as long as you inform me that you do not consider yourself one, as this may affect the way you answer my questions and thereby affecting my research.

Also, keep in mind I am doing this for a Youth Subcultures course, so I may not interview persons above a particular age: I must get this checked out by my professor first. So, please include your age when messaging me with your information.

I may not interview everyone who approaches me, but it's dependent on how many of you actually do show interest. I don't know when I will begin interviewing, but it may be within the next month and likely be administered through an instant messaging program or through Skype's voice messaging, if preferable to you.

You do not have to tell me your real name as my research is confidential, and we are asked to dispose of all of our research involving interviews once the paper is complete in order to preserve the safety of the participants.

For anyone who would like a safely objective interview because you believe I may treat you differently given your identity on the boards, then you may use the reputation function to give me the following information (make it succinct) as reputation comments are currently anonymous. But, if after interviewing you for some time I suspect you of being Catch (this goes back to the beginning about being accepted as being goth by others), then I will cease interviewing immediately and block communications from you because I don't want Catch to be able to IM me.

When messaging me, please include:
Screen name and messenger
Your age
Whether or not you consider yourself goth

I think that's everything. If I feel I've left anything out (as it is 3:05am), I will update here.

[Man In Room 5]

As much as I want to participate in this I'm probably too old (39). I could answer it based on how I used to be goth but then my answers would reflect the goth scene of the late 80s and early 90s and would thus not represent the current scene.

However, I would like to see the finished paper if you're willing. I'd like to see what you find out.

I am:

maninroom5 at yahoo dot com
maninroom5 at live dot com

[HumanePain]

If anything MIR5, age would validate your views. I was there too during the 80's going to clubs and dressing up and dancing to Siouxsie and Bowie, but the new romantic fad (as it was known to me then) was not my only pastime, as I also went to Wings, Van Halen, Zappa and Pink Floyd concerts and even enjoyed some disco. Basically, wherever the chicks were, I was there too.

But I wish I had kept my goth clothing from that time. I still weigh the same and would probably still fit them, and could sure use it now.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Paul McCartney: Sellout.

But seriously.... You actually paid to see Wings?

[Mir]

God, I would have LOVED to see Zappa live. Coincidentally, his son tours as part of the Zappa plays Zappa ensemble which will have to do.

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Paul McCartney: Sellout.

But seriously.... You actually paid to see Wings?

The Venus and Mars tour was amazing! Paul is quite the entertainer. Rock Show and Magneto and Titanium Man were great as were the rest of the songs.

This was a time when they were not just musicians, they were performers. I get comments like yours too from people who learn I paid to see STYX during the Paradise Theatre tour. That show was AWESOME!

And Mir: I saw Zappa twice, once at Santa Barbara and again at the Long Beach Arena. During Broken Hearts are for Assholes he was waving a plastic ass around, hilarious!
And at Santa Barbara, he composed a song on the spot, spending 5 minutes talking to the orchestra telling them what notes to play and then when they started, he played a once in a lifetime guitar riff I will never forget, with a solitary spotlight reflecting off his Gibson's chrome pick guard, a beam of light reflecting the smoke filled auditorium's cannibus atmosphere. A genius in action is unforgettable.

[Mr E Nigma]

Pyre, just wondering, I'd suggest you might want to put up what you consider as a goth. Because as we all know it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I personally just go by Goth With a Sledgehammer, as I feel it does the idea of the subculture much justice. If you've never heard it, it was brought into existence in 1998 I believe... http://www.fehq.org/whatgoth.htm

Is a good place to read it. That and I also think reading it would be a nice addition to your study anyways.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Mr E Nigma

http://www.fehq.org/whatgoth.htm

What the shit? Goth rock isn't mentioned once within the litany of criteria that site puts forth as the means of assessing whether one is a goth. The implicit notion that one could be a member of the group in question and not realize that fact is idiotic in itself. By that site's absurdly inclusive conception of the subculture, Fritz Haber was a goth.

Hey Pyre, I'm goth. I'm 19. My AIM is MEGASEALION.

[Pyre]

Mr E Nigma, it does not matter what my definition of goth is, because I am not here to decide that. I am trying to take an objective view on the matter and not let my biases obstruct my research. I asked that the interviewees only be accepted by others as being part of the subculture so that I could weed out people like Catch.

[Mr E Nigma]

["What the shit? Goth rock isn't mentioned once within the litany of criteria that site puts forth as the means of assessing whether one is a goth."]

I apologize if I can't read into any sarcasm there. Also, then again there might not be any.

Are you saying one has to be a fan of goth rock to be a goth? O_o

'Cause that's basically what I've surmised from what you said...

Pyre: Ohhhhh. Well I'd be happy to be interviewed, although I'd be one of those who doesn't label himself as "goth." I've never really asked other people if I'm a goth as well. But no one's ever told me I'm not one... so I don't rightly know.

AIM - IceyPyr0

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Mr E Nigma

Are you saying one has to be a fan of goth rock to be a goth? O_o

Well.... yea!

[Pyre]

Mr E Nigma, if you are unsure whether you are suitable for this interview, then I suggest you do some research on the subculture. I found that http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm offers a lot of really helpful information on the subculture. I just don't want to interview you only to discover you're an average Joe Schmoe, ya know? (That rhymed so horribly.)

[Pyre]

About the goth rock = goth thing: it's not necessarily true. Some people would argue that Goth existed before the post-punk scene of the 80s and was made up of people who adhered to a Victorian or Edwardian dress style inspired by the Gothic era. We also label authors such as Edgar Allan Poe and Bram Stoker as being Gothic novelists, and therefore it is very plausible that people lived with Gothic ideals before the music scene ever took place. Obviously the subculture exploded with the music scene, but I believe that the definition of Goth is beyond that time period onward (although, of course, no one was labeled as such before it was popularized, but that has since changed).

[Mr E Nigma]

Well based on what I've found to be the general consensus, and that page you just linked me to I'd consider myself one.

Edit: I'm pretty sure Jillian was being sarcastic, I'm not sure about maximus though...

[Pyre]

Mr E Nigma, neither one of them were sarcastic. The people here care a lot about their music and about how goth is defined, particularly BY the music. A lot of people who come in here and don't listen to goth rock but try passing as a goth get harassed pretty hard by these same people. So no, sarcasm is not present.

[Mr E Nigma]

oh... well 2 years has changed things quite a bit here... Though Godslayer knows I don't listen to what he would consider "goth rock" but I do believe he considers me a goth. And, I've never once been harassed, by anyone on this site really, at least 2 years ago and prior, when I used to visit it.

[Pyre]

Well, there are a good many people on here that are not goth but do not get harassed by it. Only those people who come in with self-proclamations of being goth while also clearly NOT being goth get harassed, such as that ToxicRadiance girl in the intro thread.

[Mr E Nigma]

Yeah, she was a right odd one.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Pyre

About the goth rock = goth thing: it's not necessarily true. Some people would argue that Goth existed before the post-punk scene of the 80s and was made up of people who adhered to a Victorian or Edwardian dress style inspired by the Gothic era.

I not sure who would argue that. I don't believe that a prominent Neo-Victorian movement existed in the 70's, and even if one did, I'm certain its adherents were not called 'goths'. The 'goth' epithet was first used to describe members of the music subculture that coalesced around goth rock bands.

We also label authors such as Edgar Allan Poe and Bram Stoker as being Gothic novelists, and therefore it is very plausible that people lived with Gothic ideals before the music scene ever took place.

Gothic novels were so called primarily due to their settings, frequently abbeys and castles constructed in the Gothic architectural style, which itself was thus named because its departure from convention was viewed as a 'barbaric' attack on the Romanesque form that prevailed in the early medieval period, mirroring the sack of Rome itself by the original Goths.
Gothic 'ideals' could be said to exist, as gothic novels often featured certain common thematic threads, such as cynicism toward religion, tempered by extant subversion of class and gender roles, and extravagant, impressionist melodrama, but certainly not everyone who indulges in these can be said to be 'goth' or 'gothic'.

Obviously the subculture exploded with the music scene, but I believe that the definition of Goth is beyond that time period onward (although, of course, no one was labeled as such before it was popularized, but that has since changed).

I don't know why so many feel compelled to dilute the meaning of 'goth' or represent the subculture as almost boundlessly inclusive, especially given that status as a 'goth' is hardly an achievement or source of pride to the sensible person. People who are truly 'dark-minded and creative' wouldn't cling so fiercely to the label-- all those who have warped the definition of 'goth' to suit their own ends have accomplished is the reduction of the term to a virtually meaningless qualifier, that one applies to oneself at his or her own risk of profound embarrassment.

[Pyre]

I must have stated in a different post that those prior to the music scene were not called "goth" as, like you said, it wasn't used as a label until the 80s. My point was that in retrospect there were people we could consider goth, and therefore it is not limited by the music. Most people who are goth DO listen to the music, and I personally also believe that to be true, but that does not have to be the prominent aspect.

The labeling of such authors as Gothic does not only have to do with the setting, but the fact that the writing was dark and macabre. I started doing some research while writing this to back up my point, but I think this site explains it better than I can:
http://my.opera.com/quentinscrisp/blog/show.dml/11604

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Pyre

I must have stated in a different post that those prior to the music scene were not called "goth" as, like you said, it wasn't used as a label until the 80s. My point was that in retrospect there were people we could consider goth, and therefore it is not limited by the music.

And my point is that you can't consider those individuals to be goth. How could you possibly regards someone born before the existence of a particular genre of music to be a member of that genre's glorified fan club?

Most people who are goth DO listen to the music, and I personally also believe that to be true, but that does not have to be the prominent aspect.

It's really the only aspect.

The labeling of such authors as Gothic does not only have to do with the setting, but the fact that the writing was dark and macabre. I started doing some research while writing this to back up my point, but I think this site explains it better than I can:
http://my.opera.com/quentinscrisp/blog/show.dml/11604

You're right the Gothic literature often incorporated supernatural or otherwise macabre motifs, but this is not the element for which such fiction as named, that aspect being the setting.

[Underwater Ophelia]

I'm 20, and you have my screen name.

[Man In Room 5]

Pyre and GM....you 2 might want to check out an article called "The Word "Gothic" in Eighteenth Century Criticism" by Alfred E. Longueil. It's on JSTOR. I also have a copy if anyone wants it. I have to thank Stolide for sending it to me several weeks back.

[Corpsey]

I'm 21 and my AIM is Mr C Orpsey.

[gothicusmaximus]

For some reason NYU's JSTOR access doesn't extend to that article. Mind paraphrasing the pertinent information?