Nonsense

[Porphyria]

Originally Posted by the-broken-harlequin

Yay, Lets drink some coca-cola!
(I bet old saint Nick would love that seeing as though it was coca-cola who made him)

Yes, lets. Maybe if Santa is pleased with us, he'll make Daddy come home this year. Now smile for the camera!

[the-broken-harlequin]

Redrum... Red rum... RED RUM... RED RUM! RED RUM!RED RUM! RED RUM!RED RUM! RED RUM!

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Porphyria

How many times do I have to tell you that I DON'T CARE if Santa is a god or not? I say no, you say yes, no one can be "right" because it's a stupid, self-defeating argument. That's never what any of this was about. I don't want to hear your hostile, overblown justification of Atheism. I never asked for any of that. I asked two simple questions and you seem to be too fixated on Santa Claus and preoccupied with childish insults to answer them.

I wasn't fixated on anything. You just have the attention span of a child with ADHD and can't grasp the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is this: you are an atheist as well.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

But what exactly do you mean FOR my beliefs? What reason could I possibly have? I would die for them, but I have no reason whatsoever to kill for them.


To answer the other question.


Paganism ( or neo paganism as it is usually referred to ) is an umbrella term for nature based belief systems and religions. There are many kinds, Wicca, Druidry, Heathenism, Asatru, folk/country based beliefs, witchcraft ( usually incorporated into Wicca, but can be practiced quite seperately without reference to a specifically named goddess and god, or pantheon) and so on, I can't remember them all at the moment.

I found actual information in books and on the internet. I have never been christened or baptised to any religion, my parents are not particularly religious. I guess you could say they are agnostic. They only christened my older brothers because it was the done thing at the time.

I have always been very close to nature, I live near the countryside and am about ten minutes from a wood. I've always felt very connected , and this feeling has grown over the years. I picked up a book on witchraft in a bookstore, I felt very interested when I saw it. I have since bought many books and am part of 3 forums dedicated to pagan faiths and beliefs . When I read the books I felt that the contents reflected a huge portion of what I have felt and believed all my life.

I also never claimed to worship any particular deity. I have not chosen a pantheon or particular area of paganism to adhere to. I don't get down and bow to trees and shrubs or anything. I revere nature, I do not worship it and I feel that there is something of the divine ( I do not claim to know what ) in all living things.

I think many are drawn to paganism because there is no set dogma. No big book of set rules and no great big devil-like figure to torment you when you pass on if you haven't been good. Naturally people have morals, and basic common sense ( yes despite believing in something you claim probably doesn't exist, weird eh? ) when it comes to life in general. The majority( if not all ) pagans are very nature concious, and envronmentally aware, think about it, the earth is what sustains you, provides you with food and liquid in order to survive, I think it deserves a little reverence.

I do not care how illogical or ridiculous that sounds to you, it isn't your belief and so it isn't your concern.

The only real problem I have with religion/belief is this: putting it on my money, in my schools, courthouses, and parading around with it.

We live in a secular society, or at least, an intended one. I get very mad when I see people trying to turn this nation, or any place into a theocracy. We exist here, and now. What happens afterwards is up to chance, (albeit small) and I don't want to be involved in that. I want my cash to be cash; not a God promise; I want my schools to be schools; not Christian learning centers; and I want my court houses to be fair and just, and not require a oath to God to take a person's credibility seriously, because as we've seen...swearing to God doesn't mean squat.

If I can get that much, I don't care what goes on inside your homes, synagogues, churches, mosques, etc. The whole problem I have is not even the stuff on the streets. I just can't stand the fact that separation of church and state is being *****. I don't think that people should be praying in class, or kneeling toward Mecca. Yeah, it seems like an infringement, right? Wrong. They are less-likely to single themselves out, and thus we create a more coherent society. They are in a secular place, and thus must act secular. If they want to express their religion, then go to a place that is not state-run, and do it. Because I am sick of hearing about Muslims, atheists, etc. getting picked on for not being Christians. Perhaps, in time with such an obvious correction, and return to the fundamentals of the American philosophy, people will stop identifying each other by their own religion, and maybe live a richer life.

People are so fixated on being identified by their religion, rather than by their profession, or knowledge, or passion for art or poetry, that I find them boring. A person can be that way, but higher education is necessary, and secular education is a must. A Christian school shouldn't mean squat, and should not allow anyone to get a scholarship anywhere. They don't teach many sciences, and a lot of history they teach is fucked. If they are hardcore Christian, then they teach that the earth is 10,000 years old, and these people get into colleges! Just no. They have to teach the mandated secular education, and they can slide in a few Christian things, but if they don't teach the core curriculum, then it's no go. All those schools should be closed down for child-abuse, and for misguiding minds.

Also, I cannot understand Christian colleges. Anyone can pass a Christian college. You just have to believe in a bunch of bullshit, and you get a PhD. I am sick of seeing that as well.

Oh well, I ranted. I don't really care about what you believe at all. It's a stupid belief, and you may even know it, but that won't change your mind. Your emotions are the best thing since sliced white-bread, and you'll be sure to satisfy them with any sort of self-assured belief. That's the way you want to live? Without truth? Without honesty? Without knowledge? Go for it. I don't care. Just don't enter my world.

I'm almost sure someone is going to 'remind' me that I am wrong about something I said here, and all I'll have to do is pull up a few articles, and show the bill of rights to guarantee that I am correct at least about separation of church and state. Or, I'll find someone telling me that I am a militant atheist, or perhaps that I am trying to 'attack' religion. Some people do that. I know some 'atheists' who are psychotic enough to just go out and actually fight people who are theists. I don't like them. I am not like them. I'd rather beat down theism with knowledge and logic, than with my fists. I'd be just as bad as them. Still, if I have to hear another comment about how I am wrong, or misguided without a good reason, then I am just going to laugh at it.

[the-broken-harlequin]

The fact that all of the preachers always come to the gothic site amuses me.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by the-broken-harlequin

The fact that all of the preachers always come to the gothic site amuses me.

You preach a particular type of bullshit that I hate almost as much. And it doesn't take a preacher to have an opinion that is unconstitutional. I find your quips prove you are terribly lacking intellectually. Do you have the cognizance of a stump, or something?

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Originally Posted by Lapin

Let me use simpler sentences then:

You need to leave people and their beliefs alone.

You need to accept that people like having religion, and don't care about the odds.

You need to learn some humility before someone hits you for being an arrogant bastard.

I agree.

It's ridiculous that you need to attack people and their beliefs. And try to make them believe in something you do. It's bullshit for you to do that.

[Clockwork]

tl;dr

I'm kind of glad I was gone for a week and consequently missed this bitchfest XD

[Porphyria]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

I wasn't fixated on anything. You just have the attention span of a child with ADHD and can't grasp the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is this: you are an atheist as well.

So maybe I am. It's irrelevant. What I asked you has nothing to do with me or with atheism.

Stop trying to change the subject and answer the fucking questions.

[the-broken-harlequin]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

You preach a particular type of bullshit that I hate almost as much. And it doesn't take a preacher to have an opinion that is unconstitutional. I find your quips prove you are terribly lacking intellectually. Do you have the cognizance of a stump, or something?

Please do tell me, how do I preach.
I have never preached. RAmen. Do not say that I copied this from vyvian!
Except about why pigeons are better than other birds.

Now, I just act like an idiot on the internet due to the fact there is no consequences.
You don't actually think I would ask someone what to do naked on a gothic forum do you?

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

I agree.

It's ridiculous that you need to attack people and their beliefs. And try to make them believe in something you do. It's bullshit for you to do that.

Why is it bullshit to attack a belief?

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Because no one deserves to have their beliefs attacked. It's what they believe and you may have a different opinion but it doesn't mean you have to enforce it upon people or attack what they believe just because you don't believe in it yourself.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

Because no one deserves to have their beliefs attacked.

I disagree, in an open forum like this people should be free to say what they want. I'm an atheist and although I think 123 is quite the asshole in that he seems unable to be objective and attack the statement instead of the person making it, debate is a form of attack in that you're usually trying to debunk what the other side says when you debate.

I'd attacxk religion in that I don't believe in it, although proper satanism - yourselof as the god of your life, not HAIL SATAN LOL IM SO SCARY - makes sense I view it as more a philosophy than a religion.

Anyway having your beliefs attacked forces you to think about things you may not have done before. If it changes your beliefs then they weren't very strong in the first place, if it doesn't it just lets you defend them with even more reflection and thought next time they are attacked.

If black people hadn't attacked the belief that they are subhuman we'd still have slavery. Sometimes beliefs need attacking. If they're defensible it won't harm them any.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

Because no one deserves to have their beliefs attacked. It's what they believe and you may have a different opinion but it doesn't mean you have to enforce it upon people or attack what they believe just because you don't believe in it yourself.

So, what if I attack belief in general? I am not attacking your belief. I am attacking belief in general. What if I attacked another belief. Perhaps one that has nothing to do with yours?

If I attacked Scientology you'd all be laughing and nodding your heads. But, I've found no evidence that any religion is any better than Scientology. Hell, even if I attacked Mormons, I'd get at least a few nods. But if I attack the beast itself: irrationality. Then I get attacked by anyone who has a belief. But, I am always making fun of belief, no matter what group is selected. All beliefs are misguided on some level.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

I disagree, in an open forum like this people should be free to say what they want. I'm an atheist and although I think 123 is quite awesome, no one will acknowledge that he has attacked their position first (as evidenced by the opening post) first, and then resorted to personal attacks later after he was lambasted for being an atheist in the first place (which was admittedly childish of him, and he shouldn't have done it. But hey, he's only human.)

There, I fixed it.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

So, what if I attack belief in general? I am not attacking your belief. I am attacking belief in general. What if I attacked another belief. Perhaps one that has nothing to do with yours?

If I attacked Scientology you'd all be laughing and nodding your heads. But, I've found no evidence that any religion is any better than Scientology. Hell, even if I attacked Mormons, I'd get at least a few nods. But if I attack the beast itself: irrationality. Then I get attacked by anyone who has a belief. But, I am always making fun of belief, no matter what group is selected. All beliefs are misguided on some level.

I don't laugh or nod my head at any religion or belief being attacked. That's not me. I don't think it's right to attack beliefs. And to attack belief in general still isn't right to me. People have their beliefs, not matter what they are, and to me you shouldn't attack them. Leave those who have their beliefs be.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

There, I fixed it.

Very clever... but since readers need only scroll up all of two rolls of the mouse to see what I ACTUALLY said, your cunning strategy will work only on the exceedingly lazy.

Oh, and kudos for associating atheism with the kind of dogma we generally try to debunk. [appaluds]

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Very clever... but since readers need only scroll up all of two rolls of the mouse to see what I ACTUALLY said, your cunning strategy will work only on the exceedingly lazy.

Oh, and kudos for associating atheism with the kind of dogma we generally try to debunk. [appaluds]

I associated atheism with absolutely nothing. Atheism is a passive stance, and cannot be associated with anything, anyone, anywhere, any idea, etc.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

I don't laugh or nod my head at any religion or belief being attacked. That's not me. I don't think it's right to attack beliefs. And to attack belief in general still isn't right to me. People have their beliefs, not matter what they are, and to me you shouldn't attack them. Leave those who have their beliefs be.

You're full of crap. I am sure you call Tom Cruise a crazy cultist and shit. Everyone does, and even if you don't (which would be amazing, because the religion really is utter bullshit) someone like you does laugh at that. People can make better calls on someone else's religions than on their own.

[Apathy's_Child]

Your constant slagging off of those who disagreed with you on a personal level associates your argument with lack of objectivity. Which is paramount to being associated with dogma.

[DeathChii]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

Why is it bullshit to attack a belief?

Because you're just looking for an argument x]

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

I don't laugh or nod my head at any religion or belief being attacked. That's not me. I don't think it's right to attack beliefs.

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

I am sure you call Tom Cruise a crazy cultist and shit. Everyone does, and even if you don't (which would be amazing, because the religion really is utter bullshit) someone like you does laugh at that.

Um... I don't see how calling a religion "utter bullshit" falls short of attacking it.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

You're full of crap. I am sure you call Tom Cruise a crazy cultist and shit. Everyone does, and even if you don't (which would be amazing, because the religion really is utter bullshit) someone like you does laugh at that. People can make better calls on someone else's religions than on their own.

NOW we're sharing a wavelength... it's a real shame all your posts aren't this devoid of personal "you smell!" 's.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Your constant slagging off of those who disagreed with you on a personal level associates your argument with lack of objectivity. Which is paramount to being associated with dogma.

Paramount to being associated with dogma? No. Look up what the word dogma means first. Because so far you are using the word totally improperly.

[Apathy's_Child]

Not at all. I'm using it in the sense that you are being dogmatic about your own beliefs to the exclusion of all other possibilities.

Perhaps dogmatism would have more appropriate. In which case, sue me - you knew what I meant.