Goths Of Colour.

Pathogen. · 06-18-2005, 04:10 PM

For the past couple of years--ever since Convergence 9--I have often wondered if racism existed within the Gothic-Industrial subculture. That same question resurfaced within me once again when I saw a post in the "Picture Post" topic-thread. So, rather than annoy/bore/aggravate the hell out of all of you with my opinions on that, here's a webpage article that will cover that ground: http://www.morbidoutlook.com/lifesty...thocolour.html [I'd like to thank my newest online friend from Texas for sharing this with me]

Soul_Immortal · 06-18-2005, 05:51 PM

<---was in awe of Daz's alabaster skin,...and from the looks of it, Wolfmoon's too!

<---simply, was making a joke in the light of the compliment ((I use sarcasm alot))

Personally, I think this sort of thing "seperates" those with a different heritage. I've seen and heard numerous times about how we all here, just want to be us without that sort of thing involved.

But the article is interesting, thank you for sharing.

edible_eye · 06-18-2005, 06:49 PM

cheers, soul. dark or alabaster doesn't matter - you're hot as hell.

as for the article - calling attention to oneself to make the point that one is "different" somehow, confuses those around him or her who have come to know that person by his or her personality alone. it "opens eyes" where perhaps eyes don't need to be opened since standing tall and announcing things like this suddenly forces peers to wonder what the speaker is hoping to achieve. do i continue to respect this person for what i've grown to respect him or her for, or am i supposed to respect him or her for their heritage? or both? or neither, because now i've seen a militant side that leaves a bad taste in my mouth?

if nothing else, this should be in politics (in my opinion), for it brings to mind the socio-political discussion of racism.

AlKilyu · 06-18-2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Immortal

<---was in awe of Daz's alabaster skin,...and from the looks of it, Wolfmoon's too!

<---simply, was making a joke in the light of the compliment ((I use sarcasm alot))

Personally, I think this sort of thing "seperates" those with a different heritage. I've seen and heard numerous times about how we all here, just want to be us without that sort of thing involved.

But the article is interesting, thank you for sharing.

LOL I knew it was a joke the moment I saw it. Who the hell took that seriously?

But seriously, Goth is the new Jonestown Cult for the 00's. wink hahaha who the hell buys this for real? sheesh!

edible_eye · 06-18-2005, 07:25 PM

cryptic, al. very cryptic .

AlKilyu · 06-18-2005, 08:16 PM

HA! edible, I bet your the only one here (at the moment, and there is probably four of us on this site total) who know who that guy is. FYI the movie they made about that made Powers Booth one of my favorite actors ever...

edible_eye · 06-18-2005, 08:46 PM

oh - i didn't know we had a stealthy guest amongst us, and i'm curious now - who is it?

i was talking about your hidden message.

AlKilyu · 06-18-2005, 08:53 PM

Heh no I know. No I was refering to Jim Jones, and the Jonestown fiasco in the 70's. I was betting that you were one of a few here that remembered all that

edible_eye · 06-19-2005, 02:49 AM

oh, that - yep. i remember it. my brain is misfiring - too many hours of work and not enough sleep.

all work and no sleep make edible a dull boy...

Morbideus · 06-19-2005, 09:46 PM

Make that 5. I remember the TIME magazine cover of the vat of Cool-aid with all of the dead bodies scattered around it like it was yesterday...

Has anyone heard the recording that "escaped" from the massacre? It was recorded during the last time Jones addressed his people before the "drink," and then during. It is fucking disturbing.

Morbideus · 06-19-2005, 09:48 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to get off topic. :?

I have never heard of rascism within the Goth culture.

AlKilyu · 06-19-2005, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morbideus

Make that 5. I remember the TIME magazine cover of the vat of Cool-aid with all of the dead bodies scattered around it like it was yesterday...

Has anyone heard the recording that "escaped" from the massacre? It was recorded during the last time Jones addressed his people before the "drink," and then during. It is fucking disturbing.

Ya...I have...it's creepy!

Don't worry about going off topic, it was a lame one to begin with.

Everyone knows that we here at gothic.net don't hate black people, we think everyone should own one. ^_^ It's a joke. Relax, pull the bug out of your butt, get a sense of humor, oh and take the preaching elsewhere.

edible_eye · 06-19-2005, 10:34 PM

hahahahahaha.. snort..giggle...

... heh... sniff... heh heh... hahahahahahahahahahaha

sevenpointsofinanity · 06-19-2005, 11:17 PM

Um, I'm just wondering why this is even a topic? Who cares what colour anybody is, anyway? *shrug* Keep in mind, I live in Miami, people...so it's like, a non issue for me.

BTW Soul, you are hot as hell.

SuicideJade · 06-20-2005, 02:17 AM

there best not be any hate up in here.. jade would hate to have to go all jackie chan on some heads ^_^
*gets into a crouching tiger hidden dragon pose O_o *

WolfMoon · 06-20-2005, 09:49 AM

Now, now people! Don't start jumping to conclusions. No one's blatantly hollering "RACISM". BUT, you do have to admit that pale skin is rather promoted as the "in" thing in the gothic sub-culture. And I've wondered from time to time myself about it. If we're so accepting(I don't mean 'we' as in g.net, I mean 'we' the society of goths in general) then why are we so envious of people with paler skin? That's not a shot at you *Soul* I understand what you were saying, but I've also heard darker goths decry their lack of wraith-like skin.

I don't think that it's so much racist, but some in the community do need to think about the connotations that can come along with promoting a certain look. I mean, if we all started promoting blonde hair and blue eyes people would certainly think the worst of us, even if we accepted everyone.

I read the article a while back and I agree with the writer's point. How can we call ourselves open-minded when it's a given that most people in the scene promote a certain pale aesthetic?

A while back my husband made me promise not to wear too pale foundation anymore. After much sniffing and whining I can see his point. I was simply trying to achieve something that is impossible with my natural pigment. And I looked like a dweeb wearing a mask, lol. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more diversity in the scene.

And Jade, there's no hate, but we have missed you our Goth Martha Stewart.
:wink:

SuicideJade · 06-21-2005, 01:52 AM

i know there's no hate.. if there was i wouldn't waste hours in which i should be sleeping here ^_^

*one nedds plenty of rest when one's job is washing bazillions of dishes a night in a new and understaffed restauraunt :roll *

WolfMoon · 06-22-2005, 10:08 AM

Oh and Al, I missed that "joke" the first time I read through. But it's sooooooo not funny.

Rhapsody · 06-22-2005, 10:46 AM

I don't think this is a question of race, but more simply the ages old envy that people hold for each other. It's a perfectly natural thing to compare yourself to others in any question of aesthetic... How many times have we witnessed two people, one with stick strait tresses, the other with a mass of natural curls, stumbling over each other to say "I wish I had your hair!"

This is the same, really.

OnixxFilth · 06-22-2005, 11:33 AM

I know. I guess I'm fortunate in having naturally pale skin, but I worry during the summer that I may inadvertantly aquire a tan. I remember seeing some sort of goth "anti-tanning lotion" on some site- does anyone know what I'm talking about? As soon as I saw that, I said to myself,"I need to get some of that!" Honestly, I didn't know that people of color were even interested in goth. Shows how ignorant I am. I thought it was a Caucasian phenomenon, but guess I'm wrong.

Rhapsody · 06-22-2005, 11:44 AM

Heh, the person who helped me the most with all of the things I feared about the scene, from hair to clothes to how to walk in those damned boots and how to apply makeup...

Was a black man.

(ps, anti-tanning lotion may be available at the local super-market. It's often disguised in a bottle marked SPF 45.)

WolfMoon · 06-22-2005, 12:29 PM

I avoid the sun because I don't want to age prematurely. I haven't been out to the club in awhile, I was preggers recently, but I only saw a very few hispanic and almost no black people there. Except on Halloween, of course.

I do understand that there is pressure from their communities to embrace the hip-hop/rap lifestyle. I suspect that that is part of the reason, but also because they might feel that they wouldn't fit in where people are trying to be as pale as possible. It's just sad that anyone would be made to feel that they wouldn't be accepted in a community that prides itself on acceptance.

I love ethnicity! I'll take a girl of every color.

:twisted:

Pathogen. · 06-22-2005, 05:08 PM

Fortunately, that pressure from other Blacks to embrace the Hip-Hop lifestyle hasn't gotten to me. Otherwise, I wouldn't be on this board. And WolfMoon, I can also agree with you on 2 points: 1) Some people of colour feel alienated from embracing a subculture where everyone is expected to look pale as a ghost, despite claims of inclusiveness & 2) I love women of every colour damn self! Not to deviate from the topic of a discussion-thread I started, but I love Rap music. However, I choose to listen to it in very small doses compared to the rest of civilisation who choose to listen to it 24/7. Oldschool late 1980s-mid 1990s Rap--the "Gangsta" kind & the "politically-conscious" kind--is the best to listen to, to me anyway. After Tupac & Biggie were assasinated, the content of Rap music started to become more materialistic. "Buy this, buy that, flex this" or "it's all about the Benjamins" replaced "fight the power" or "know the ledge". Rap started to lose whatever intelligence the lyrics once had since the advent of this New Orleans "Bling-Bling"-inspired bullshit in 1999, but that's another discussion-thread of its own. In Hip-Hop clothing [Southpole, Pelle Pelle, Ecko, FUBU, G-Unit, etc.], I look/feel like a total jackass! Somehow, Gothic fashion looks better on me. The mass Rap culture is populated by mostly sexist/homophobic/anti-Semitic/racist individuals [most, but not all of them]. It is because of that mass culture's adherents' macho-ass "survival of the strongest" behaviour that I distance myself from it. I still love Rap music, but not the culture, the clothing or the mindset. Fo' shizzle.

psyche · 06-22-2005, 09:35 PM

*crunk-crunk-ba-donk-a-donk*

Ah... as I return, brushing dat durt offa mah shouldaz after a long napppytime, it's fresh in my memory that I was fully having this conversation last night. OoO

Picture two deathpunks... each one formerly being skinheads from opposite yards of the political fence... and not throwing sticks and stones.

It's my observation that the purely gothic set, especially apart from the industrialists, secretly harbors more racism than most any other rockscene... aside from the obvious.

Personally, I remember a few times going to see Front Line Assembly in SF, and that damned song from Hard Wired comes through with the "Heil Hitler" sample... and the place is tearing apart with echoed choruses and flying heils from every which angle of the crowd from the most unexpected of people. You'd be surprised...

Good thing I was doing a small zine around the time they played the Maritime Hall once, and suggested that one of my crew and I interview Bill Leeb. We do the deed, under the assumption that Bill and the boys are anti-fascists and might appreciate the word of another couple of like-minded fellers on how things look crowd-side, and... uh... now I'm not so sure where they stand. 'Fo reals...

So, join the line and sign your name along with the rest of the fascist bands like Death in June, Current 93, Sol Invictus... and hell... Blood Axis. All of which bands I really like, except for the last, who I'll spend money on to listen to while not listening to the euro-centric messages.

I love apathy, s'pecially the variety that I've learned to homebrew under the guise of... I just dig those tight beats, dawg.

And whaaaaaaat... tell me that none of you gave the afro-goth a double take at the club? Cuz I did too... and maybe I'm not much better than the haters I hate... or at least grown apathetically acceptant towards in later days.

Excuses.

AlKilyu · 06-22-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

Oh and Al, I missed that "joke" the first time I read through. But it's sooooooo not funny.

I thought it was, as did e_e, so really that's all that counts.

That and the pretencious preaching that occurs about everyone joining hands and singing "Kumbuya" be countered with equal obnoxiousness.