My Crisis: Is my God really not real?

GothicChristian · 01-01-2009, 01:34 AM

Last Sunday night at church, my youth pastor taught a lesson that went way over the heads of the kids around me (not because they're stupid, really, just because they're all a lot younger than me and aren't quite on my level) it was about how God has picked the people who are going to accept him and go to heaven. Which completely blows the whole "Free will" thing all to pieces, as well as the "God wants everyone to go to Heaven" and "God loves us all equally" thing to pieces. He also mentioned in the lesson that we don't have to do anything at all to get into heaven, not a thing on our own. But, we have to trust Him, right? That's having to do something, which means that the Bible lies, which also means that God lies.
When I asked about all these things, they didn't give me a straight answer; they couldn't.
Somehow, all of this has me thinking that I've been brainwashed my entire life, and it was done so well that I completely overlooked some obvious things. God is supposed to be all seeing, all knowing, and all powerful. If He really wanted everyone to go to heaven, He could just make it that way, He already knows who is going to accept Him, but He does nothing to change the decision of those who won't accept him.

So, my religion has fallen apart, as well as my belief in God.
I have no idea what to do now, it's like everything has lost it's meaning. My faith was the only thing that has kept me going this long, and I've been thinking about this since Sunday.
I feel so lost now, am I really such a weak person that this is my breaking point? I've lost friends, I've lost family, I've lost homes, and that didn't break me, but now that I've lost God I feel like I can't go on? How does that work?

I know it would be reasonable to talk to my parents or some other person in my life, but it wouldn't work. My dad would get angry at me, my mom wouldn't understand, I'm not close to the rest of my family, my pastor wouldn't be able to answer me, and the only person I could talk to at school, my guidance counselor, wouldn't get it either. It would probably make her head spin if she found out I wasn't as sure of myself and what I believed as I seem. My friends wouldn't get it either, most of them are atheist and I don't believe any of the religious ones have ever had this problem. I don't have anyone to go to about this, otherwise I wouldn't be posting this.
I just need some help.

gothicusmaximus · 01-01-2009, 01:38 AM

Belief in a supreme being is as comforting as it is unjustifiable.
Congratulations, you've emerged from your chrysalis of weak-mindedness into the fellowship of those whose worldview is informed by reason. Now you can devote the time you would have spent at church to something fun or productive.

GothicChristian · 01-01-2009, 01:54 AM

Maybe you're right, Gothicus, as usual.
I can spend the hours of the week I normally spend at church playing DDR, reading, doing those massive amounts of school work that I constantly am putting off.

Of course, that's assuming my parents don't physically drag me to church and tie me down to a pew.
It's something that they would do.

Anyways, I'm thinking I'll keep this to myself when it comes to my family. I'm already secretly disappointing them with many things (Like the fact that I'm becoming a writer, and if I go to college, it will be for that, and the fact that I hate my brother as well as my dad's family, oh, and the big thing that they'd condemn me for: I like girls just as much, if not more, than I like guys.) What's another thing to the ever growing list of things that they'd crumple apart or kill me over?

Godslayer Jillian · 01-01-2009, 02:09 AM

DDR or church, which one's the bigger waste of time?
I made my best friend into a kind of atheist. Her upbringing and residual fear of eternal punishment still stops her from admitting she has never felt the presence of a god because it doesn't exist.
Stupidly, she believes in creationism more than she believes in the existence of a god. Don't ask me how that works.

GothicChristian · 01-01-2009, 02:17 AM

Well, let's weigh the pros and cons.

Church:
Pros: Keeps my parents happy.
Cons: I don't want to be there, I'll be reminded of what a moron I was, I'll be fighting the urge throw a Bible at the next person who thinks that saying "Dear Lord" or "Father" every two words during a prayer will actually make something happen.

DDR:
Pros: It'll keep me happy, it's a good workout, I'm better at it than my brother and I can point that out merrily when they come home from church.
Cons: angry/disappointed parents

I'd say church.

Drake Dun · 01-01-2009, 04:20 AM

It's natural for a major upheaval in your worldview to be rough, but unless you run around deliberately making things hard on yourself, you'll get through it. Then the next time you have a paradigm shift, you'll be bringing experience to the table, and it won't hurt as much.

God is a door man. Religion takes a lot of things which are already there inside you, throws in some other whacky stuff, and shrinkwraps it all into one package which it sells as a silver bullet for life's problems. When you're used to lensing things through religion, it may seem obvious that throwing out God is throwing out all the things you're used to associating with it (which might include basics like love or your moral sense). If you get yourself into that rut, you can do a lot of psychic damage trying to excise God from your heart. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Now that you've figured out that God never meant to those people what it meant to you in the first place, it's up to you to unpack the entire idea of God and figure out what it is that was coming from you that you thought was worth keeping. None of the feelings or experiences you had when thinking or talking about God are any less real for the fact that God himself isn't. Your task now is to sort all of that stuff out from all of the supernaturalist nonsense that people who came before you have heaped on top of it. Do it right, and you'll be rescuing something, not losing something.

And yes. Keep it secret from your parents, for now. It will come out eventually, but if you can pull it off, you'll be better off for having chosen the time and manner carefully.

Good luck.

Maxim_Macabre · 01-01-2009, 04:32 AM

Taken from a ridiculous website my friend sent to me, I thought it might have it's place in a thread like this:

"Breaking Free of Christianity

Have fear, shame, control and "sin" been used as tools to manipulate you?
Are you strong enough to acknowledge that you have been lied to?
Are you willing to admit to yourself that you have been a victim and that you need help?

Stages of control of Christianity in one's life:

* Becoming more and more preoccupied with church/bible study
* Excessive church attendance or reading bible
* Using church/bible/prayer to avoid life and/or problems
* Compulsive thinking about or quoting scripture

The above is the loss of control stage.

* Compulsive church attendance or quoting of scriptures
* Obsessive praying, prosyletizing, witnessing, attending revivals and crusades on a frequent basis
* Excessive financial contributions
* Increasing dependence on "the Lord"
* Feelings of guilt if you miss a church function
* Refusal to think, doubt or question Christian teachings or authority
* Inability to sensibly discuss religious issues
* Church attendance, prayer and religious activities begin to interfere with work or school
* Feelings of powerlessness
* Preaching that sex is evil, dirty
* Feelings of shame over nudity, your body or the bodies of others
* Feelings of hatred or resentment towards others who have different beliefs
* Lengthy crusades, mission work, communes
* Smiley mask- this is an advanced stage of Christianity where feelings are denied and an artificial pastey smile is worn at all times. This is blatant evidence of extreme denial
* Black and white simplistic thinking
* Strong feelings of low self esteem, shame, self hatred, blame.
* Excessive fasting or using food to "feed" other areas of your life that are seriously lacking
* Prosyletizing on the job= job loss
* Progressive isolation, breakdown of relationships
* Watching only religious programs on TV; excluding any non-religious programs
* Avoiding secular activities (entertainment, education)
* Inability to take any personal credit for achievments- always giving the credit to "the Lord"
* Not taking any personal responsibility, relying on "the Lord" to control your entire life
* Cries for help; mental, emotional, physical breakdown= hospitalization

One or more of the above indicates there is a serious problem. In order to find out if something is good or evil, we must give it power. This is what happens with progressive Christianity. In the end, there is no more personal identity. The victim becomes a shell and something else takes over. If you have gotton this far, it is not too late to get out and STAY out.

ALL hoaxes, lies and scams have ONE major theme in common- that is a LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. Once one KNOWS, one can no longer be deluded and lied to. Billions of dollars, mass murder and above all LIES and FEAR have been used to keep us from our True Creator. Those in control have profited from the fruits of their lies for centuries and wish to keep their power at the expense of human ignorance and misery. Our True Creator, Satan, gives us knowledge so we can elevate ourselves above that of an animal. The false god and his alien cohorts look down upon us and wish to enslave us. Satan cares about his human creation and wishes to help us. The biggest step is to overcome your fear and study and learn. Once you know, Christianity and its false teachings can no longer be a threat."

JCC · 01-01-2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothicChristian

Well, let's weigh the pros and cons.

Church:
Pros: Keeps my parents happy.
Cons: I don't want to be there, I'll be reminded of what a moron I was, I'll be fighting the urge throw a Bible at the next person who thinks that saying "Dear Lord" or "Father" every two words during a prayer will actually make something happen.

DDR:
Pros: It'll keep me happy, it's a good workout, I'm better at it than my brother and I can point that out merrily when they come home from church.
Cons: angry/disappointed parents

I'd say church.

Never live to please your parents.

I Am Great. · 01-01-2009, 08:14 AM

http://gothic.net/boards/showthread....435#post496435

a morbid curiosity · 01-01-2009, 09:10 AM

Don't go to church just becase your parents want you to.
No point in being a hypocrite when they are probably going to find out anyway.

Gothicus is right.
Life is pointless, go ahead and enjoy it.

HumanePain · 01-01-2009, 09:38 AM

Don't confuse church with faith.

The church forbade priests to marry in the 5th century A.D. so that the potential sons and daughters of priests wouldn't inherit church property.
The church is about the consolidation of money to exert social power.

Faith on the other hand can do great things for individuals who need it (myself included).

And by the way, it doesn't say anywhere in the bible that everyone will go to heaven. The New Testament describes the cover charge. If anyone in your church says that everyone will go to heaven, they are not preaching scripture.

You can shed your submission to church without giving up on faith.

Joker_in_the_Pack · 01-01-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Don't confuse church with faith.

The church forbade priests to marry in the 5th century A.D. so that the potential sons and daughters of priests wouldn't inherit church property.
The church is about the consolidation of money to exert social power.

Faith on the other hand can do great things for individuals who need it (myself included).

And by the way, it doesn't say anywhere in the bible that everyone will go to heaven. The New Testament describes the cover charge. If anyone in your church says that everyone will go to heaven, they are not preaching scripture.

You can shed your submission to church without giving up on faith.

If you believe god made everything, and you believe god gave you free will, use it. I believe god is a load of bullshit, but that's a seperate issue. You believe in god? Fine, cool, whatever. The church =/= god.

Necrophagist · 01-01-2009, 02:28 PM

GothicChristian - just tell everyone you don't believe in God. It'll help to push the weight off your chest.

Saya · 01-01-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothicChristian

Last Sunday night at church, my youth pastor taught a lesson that went way over the heads of the kids around me (not because they're stupid, really, just because they're all a lot younger than me and aren't quite on my level) it was about how God has picked the people who are going to accept him and go to heaven. Which completely blows the whole "Free will" thing all to pieces, as well as the "God wants everyone to go to Heaven" and "God loves us all equally" thing to pieces. He also mentioned in the lesson that we don't have to do anything at all to get into heaven, not a thing on our own. But, we have to trust Him, right? That's having to do something, which means that the Bible lies, which also means that God lies.
When I asked about all these things, they didn't give me a straight answer; they couldn't.
Somehow, all of this has me thinking that I've been brainwashed my entire life, and it was done so well that I completely overlooked some obvious things. God is supposed to be all seeing, all knowing, and all powerful. If He really wanted everyone to go to heaven, He could just make it that way, He already knows who is going to accept Him, but He does nothing to change the decision of those who won't accept him.

So, my religion has fallen apart, as well as my belief in God.
I have no idea what to do now, it's like everything has lost it's meaning. My faith was the only thing that has kept me going this long, and I've been thinking about this since Sunday.
I feel so lost now, am I really such a weak person that this is my breaking point? I've lost friends, I've lost family, I've lost homes, and that didn't break me, but now that I've lost God I feel like I can't go on? How does that work?

I know it would be reasonable to talk to my parents or some other person in my life, but it wouldn't work. My dad would get angry at me, my mom wouldn't understand, I'm not close to the rest of my family, my pastor wouldn't be able to answer me, and the only person I could talk to at school, my guidance counselor, wouldn't get it either. It would probably make her head spin if she found out I wasn't as sure of myself and what I believed as I seem. My friends wouldn't get it either, most of them are atheist and I don't believe any of the religious ones have ever had this problem. I don't have anyone to go to about this, otherwise I wouldn't be posting this.
I just need some help.

Well, do you believe God wrote the Bible? Or was it written by people who thought they knew God's will?

And thats my big problem with Christianity and a few other religions, is that it tries to limit the limitless. When something bad happens, they say "God works in mysterious ways." And yet when it comes to things like who goes to heaven, who can get married, and so on, suddenly he isn't so mysterious after all. A lot of it is putting words into the mouth of a being they haven't met and by their own admission they can't comprehend. If God is a supreme being, the source of everything, infinite, all knowing and mysterious, how are we created in his image? Why do we assume he thinks like we do?

I understand you're feeling shaken, I was like that too. I used to be a very pious Christian, and when I lost faith I was very bitter about it. It took me a few years to get over that bitterness. My mom didn't understand why I refused to be confirmed, but after a few spats just decided to leave me alone. But the best thing to do is just be honest with your parents, even if you don't think they would understand at least they know whats going on. If they still force you to go to church, well it might be infuriating and boring, but all you can do is put up with it.

KontanKarite · 01-01-2009, 03:19 PM

GC, I could talk to you about it, but I think all I can say for now is to think about what Drake and HumanePain had said in this thread.

I Am Great. · 01-01-2009, 03:22 PM

I'd say about 75% of your posts are you telling people that someone else already posted something. You're useless.

Necrophagist · 01-01-2009, 03:27 PM

You're mum is useless.

I Am Great. · 01-01-2009, 03:29 PM

She really is.

Necrophagist · 01-01-2009, 03:37 PM

I am you mother.

Noooooooooooooo!

I Am Great. · 01-01-2009, 03:43 PM

No, you're not.

Vivi · 01-02-2009, 04:30 AM

Faith only ever leads to disappointment. Why delude yourself into believing in something as pointless and absurd as "an almighty god" when you can be free and live with the ability to make decisions for yourself without the influence of some judgemental religious nutcases.

Despanan · 01-02-2009, 09:59 AM

You're what? 14? 15?

I'd say that's about that time I began to lose my faith. It's a process. I knew the Church was bullshit much earlier, and unlike you I was pretty much raised to be a little heathen, and still I didn't fully separate myself from Christianity until I was seventeen, and even at twenty-five I'm still puzzling out my own spirituality.

You're starting on a very important path in your development, and you're starting to come into your own as a person.

Just keep in mind, you don't need to be certain. No one is certain. Just enjoy and explore that giant spiritual question mark, because whether or not there is a God, faith is really about the journey, not the destination.

People who cling to the dogma of certainty, be it in a church or as an atheist, are simply people who are too afraid to take that journey.

HumanePain · 01-02-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi

Why delude yourself into believing in something as pointless and absurd as "an almighty god" when you can be free and live with the ability to make decisions for yourself without the influence of some judgemental religious nutcases.

Amen to making decisions without the influence of nutcases, but in some cases, "the ability to make decisions for yourself" is impaired or through poor judgment has led to a long and painful series of self destructive decisions. In these cases, accepting the template of Jesus living within oneself removes the self destructive ego and replaces it with a superior one that improves the afflicted person's life.

I Am Great. · 01-02-2009, 10:17 AM

I think it's wonderful that non-believers like to pick apart religion. Grow up.

harlow · 01-02-2009, 10:45 AM

All I will say on this is that I follow the bible in faith but as far as church goes, I like to have my own thoughts on what is in the bible and not rely on how others think it should be "interpreted". Oh and your pastor... I really must say is completely full of shit, in my opinion of course.

So I say to you, read the bible and make your own path, discuss with others instead of following others in that path to discover your faith.