Shakespeare

Yukiko_San · 06-11-2008, 08:37 AM

So I am a lover of Shakespearian literature. I have so far read and watched a few renditions of his plays and poems. I currently am in love with Hamlet. Truly amazing. I just with that the other teens of my generation would sit and read the beauty behind the words that he speaks of to us. Goodness... He's a genius! So does anyone else like his work?

KontanKarite · 06-11-2008, 08:44 AM

I fail at really old English. So I prefer modern renditions of his works. Shakespearian language bugs the hell out of me. May as well be in Spanish or Italian. I'd understand it just as much that way.

But he is a good story teller.

Despanan · 06-11-2008, 08:54 AM

I positively love the Bard. The poetry is genius and the fact that his work resonates so strongly with so many years later is nothing short of remarkable. No other writer has had such an impact on Western society (I always laugh to myself when someone quotes Shakespeare without knowing it).

Unfortunately alot of people can't get past the Old English, and aren't willing to take the short amount of time it takes to acclimate themselves to it. Couple this with the fact that most higschools don't have the budget to take their students to an actual production of a Shakespeare play and only give their students partial texts of his more popular plays and you have whole generations of yokels thinking his works are just "Thor speak".

Yukiko_San · 06-11-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despanan

I positively love the Bard. The poetry is genius and the fact that his work resonates so strongly with so many years later is nothing short of remarkable. No other writer has had such an impact on Western society (I always laugh to myself when someone quotes Shakespeare without knowing it).

Unfortunately alot of people can't get past the Old English, and aren't willing to take the short amount of time it takes to acclimate themselves to it. Couple this with the fact that most higschools don't have the budget to take their students to an actual production of a Shakespeare play and only give their students partial texts of his more popular plays and you have whole generations of yokels thinking his works are just "Thor speak".

I agree, I love the way that they speak. I speak Shakespearian most of the time. When I am chatting with my friends I will say "thou" or "thy" without even noticing. He was a genius in my book. His stories can always pull an emotion from me.

Despanan · 06-11-2008, 09:59 AM

Wait...what?

Do you mean you actually use old English words and syntax, or do you just pepper your speech with "Thou" and "Thine" instead of "You" and "Your" etc. ?

Godslayer Jillian · 06-11-2008, 10:02 AM

Shakespeare's language is still modern English.
Old English is the language Beowulf was written - completely impossible to understand by a modern English speaker, no matter how much effort we put into it.
Middle English is the language spoken in the Canterbury Tales, using words like "bifel"

Despanan · 06-11-2008, 10:43 AM

Hmm...Seems I used the wrong word. You're half-right GSJ, Old English is indeed Beowulf but Shakespearian English is not quite modern English it's Early Modern English Hence you have a slightly different structure and words like "Lanthorn" instead or "Lantern".

Hmm...The more you know.

JCC · 06-11-2008, 10:44 AM

I don't particularly like Shakespeare. He's alright, but the immense hype about him puts me off significantly. I mean, the guy could be the best writer ever (which he isn't by a long stretch) and he wouldn't live up to how far everyone's head is lovingly lodged up his cold dead anus.

lostintranslation · 06-11-2008, 11:20 AM

I used to really enjoy Shakespeare, but being a high school student, we are required to read (then slaughter) all things Shakespeare. Othello is probably my favorite work by Shakespeare though. I've never seen it performed, but I enjoy the text. I like Hamlet, I was Polonius in a production of it a few years ago, but I view it as an over done piece. It's everyone's favorite (except those who like the other obvious ones: Romeo and Juliet, Midsummer Night's Dream, etc). I think to truly enjoy an author and artist, you have to know more than a few works, obscure ones are good too.

Despanan · 06-11-2008, 03:01 PM

Last summer I was Theseus in Midsummer Night's Dream put on by the Scioto Society. It was fun but I kinda wish my director hadn't been so traditionaly Rennisance in the production. I was in this HOT Robe and tall HOT riding boots in 90+ degree weather. That was not fun. I also wanted there to be a little more invention in the concept. Particularly with my scenes with Hyppolita. I mean the play pretty much implies that I conquered her people, kidinapped her and was forcing her to marry me; and the director insisted that we play it that she was just tickled pink to have been "won".

Still, it was a good show. I was also supposed to play Lucious in a college production of Titus Andronicus but it turned out that I graduated before the show was up on it's feet.

KontanKarite · 06-11-2008, 03:15 PM

Tidus Androgynous: The Shakespearian Underground Rock And Roll Story

Yukiko_San · 06-12-2008, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Shakespeare's language is still modern English.
Old English is the language Beowulf was written - completely impossible to understand by a modern English speaker, no matter how much effort we put into it.
Middle English is the language spoken in the Canterbury Tales, using words like "bifel"

I remember you... From my old account on here... We used to be friends... xD

Yukiko_San · 06-12-2008, 05:22 AM

In my English class we are taught how to speak Elizabethian. It just really stuck with my vocabulary.

Underwater Ophelia · 06-12-2008, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Shakespeare's language is still modern English.
Old English is the language Beowulf was written - completely impossible to understand by a modern English speaker, no matter how much effort we put into it.
Middle English is the language spoken in the Canterbury Tales, using words like "bifel"

Thank you.

That was pissing me off as I was reading through this thread.

Yukiko_San · 06-13-2008, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Thank you.

That was pissing me off as I was reading through this thread.

What do you mean by it was pissing you off? How could a thread about Shakespeare piss you off? I'm confused.

JCC · 06-13-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukiko_San

What do you mean by it was pissing you off? How could a thread about Shakespeare piss you off? I'm confused.

It pissed her off because nobody knows the modes of English linguistics, and everybody pretends that they do.

Drake Dun · 06-13-2008, 09:23 AM

Old English is unintelligible to even a highly educated English speaker without education specifically in Old English. Think Beowulf:

Quote:

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum...

Middle English is intelligible to some, with copius footnotes. It helps if you read it aloud. Give the vowels their continental values. Some words are similar to their modern English equivalents in spelling - others are similar in their pronunciation, so you'll do all right if you have both channels of information. Think Chaucer:

Quote:

Whan that Aprill, with his shoures soote
The droghte of March hath perced to the roote
And bathed every veyne in swich licour,
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;

Shakespeare is Early Modern English. It should be reasonably understandable if you're willing to put in a tad of effort, and with the occasional footnote.

Quote:

Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio: a fellow
of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath
borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how
abhorred in my imagination it is!

Sadly, I think we're reaching the end of Shakespeare's reach. Parts of what he writes are already completely opaque to the modern reader. Alas, all things pass in time.

gothicusmaximus · 06-13-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

I mean, the guy could be the best writer ever (which he isn't by a long stretch)

Who's better?

Underwater Ophelia · 06-13-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

It pissed her off because nobody knows the modes of English linguistics, and everybody pretends that they do.

Righto.

It's just annoying.

JCC · 06-13-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Who's better?

There's plenty of writers that I prefer. In fact, none of Shakespeare's works are even in my list of favourite books.

gothicusmaximus · 06-13-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

There's plenty of writers that I prefer. In fact, none of Shakespeare's works are even in my list of favourite books.

But surely you must acknowledge that a good portion of the words that appear in your favorite books wouldn't exist if not for Shakespeare?
I suppose I can understand someone who doesn't care for Shakespeare, but to call him overrated is a bit excessive.

JCC · 06-13-2008, 01:58 PM

Shakespeare is overrated purely because people view him as a deity rather than as a writer. The man couldn't live up to his own hype if he was utterly perfect.

TheBloodEternity · 06-13-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Shakespeare's language is still modern English.
Old English is the language Beowulf was written - completely impossible to understand by a modern English speaker, no matter how much effort we put into it.
Middle English is the language spoken in the Canterbury Tales, using words like "bifel"

I was hoping someone would point that out.

Underwater Ophelia · 06-13-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

Shakespeare is overrated purely because people view him as a deity rather than as a writer. The man couldn't live up to his own hype if he was utterly perfect.

I agree with that completely.
Shakespeare was good--he wasn't godlike, though.
In fact, most of his ideas weren't even original. I know offhand that Romeo and Juliet was based off of an old children's tale to scare kids into behaving.

gothicusmaximus · 06-13-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I agree with that completely.
Shakespeare was good--he wasn't godlike, though.
In fact, most of his ideas weren't even original. I know offhand that Romeo and Juliet was based off of an old children's tale to scare kids into behaving.

I don't consider myself to be among these Shakespeare cultists you both seem to encounter so frequently, but I do believe, unequivocally, that he was one of the most skilled dramaturgists and composers of English literature in history.
That the majority of Shakespeare's plays were adapted from folk tales is true, but originality in the arts was not nearly as highly valued in Shakespeare's time as it is today. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the importance of total uniqueness is ludicrously overemphasized within the contemporary artistic community, as cogitating a truly unprecedented, unanticipated concept is a virtually impossible feat. T.S. Eliot covered this subject more thoroughly in his "Tradition and the Individual Talent," which I recommend highly.
Romeo and Juliet is Pyramus and Thisbe, by the way.