Born a Goth or Made a Goth?.....

[psyche]

All gothery aside...

The inherent darkness within light
and that light within the darkness.

One without the other would be incomplete in the balance
as each is left/right vision within binocular eyes
each image superimposed upon the other
the twodimensions convexually combining into threedimensional sight
further still with the unseen behind the scenes
a feeling behind the focus opens third eyes shining bright.

Therefore everything and nothing composes this particular *gothic*something.


One of the darklight arts naturally by birth
radiates from the insideout
as a furnace of heat to warm all those of coldhearts in presence.

...the Supernatural.

One of the darklight arts by later initiations
burn from the outsidein
consumed by the unfamiliarity of interest rather than inherence.

...the Unnatural.


One being the superfire burning
seeking to bring light and illuminate life.

One being the unmoth drawn
from darkness seeking the attractiveness of that sweet death.


So what's the vote, chote? ...true by Birth and true til death!


*burny*

[The_Crazy_Irishman]

I like this question, and shall ponder on it today But my first impression would be that it'd have to be a mix of both. I mean, someone could be born with all the right characteristics to be a 'Goth' but if they never explore that side of themselves, then they're hardly going to magically become a Goth. On the other hand, there are some people who, no matter how hard they tried, could never be a Goth, just because their personality is just too different. Well hopefully I shall have some thing more to say on this by the end of the day. And for the moment I shall abstain from voting

[MrMaelstrom]

Originally Posted by TStone

Ter “In a general sort of way everyone knew they were going to die, even the common people. No one knew where you were before you were born, but when you were born it wasn’t long before you found you’d arrived with your return ticket already punched.”

There's a line in The Crow that reminds me of this: "Childhood/innocence is over the moment you know that you're going to die."

Maybe I'm just stubborn, but accepting things as hereditary/genetic/born with is just something I can't/won't accept.

It's frighteningly close to saying your destiny is already written.

"The Gypsy women looked at young Corto Maltese's hand and said: -Your life line is very short.
So he went to his father's shaving box and opened it. There were seven straight razors in it. One for each day of the week.
He picked out the one for saturday, a silver razor with a hunting scene depicted upon it, and he carved onto his hand his own destiny".

You can also argue that it's more worthy to make something of yourself than being born with it.

Gypsy, I'll take back what I've said. You're exactly where you might be needed most. Let's hope you get promoted often enough to be able to make a bigger difference.

And remember: "No fate but what we make".

[Darkness_Of_The_Night]

Originally Posted by Gypsy2222

[i]I suppose it really depends on what your definition of goth is then really, you see fair Darkness, I define goth as more than clothes... more than music... For me goth is a whole lifestyle... a train of thought... a philosophy daring to go darker than the rest of the world at large. For me, by my definition, one is not "...somewhat goth..." one either is or isn't. that statement is like saying water is somewhat wet... Now, that being said being goth does not automaticly preclude the possibility of being something else as well... like a hippy... one can be both, like salt water... it is both water and salt. As far as being made a goth... I've already broached that several times in the statement that one must originally have the trait of appreciating and/or creating some form of "dark art"..... so, in effect, it would be better to say one "discovers" that she or he is a goth... rather than "becoming" one... this is where individuality comes in, as most goths tend to be extremely individualistic, when one discovers that she or he has always had certain traits in their individual nature, she or he has always had them... hence why I believe it is a born trait.....[/i}

Yes I know there is more then just the music and the clothes about being a goth. I also cant agree anymore about what you have been saying. See but you should look it through other people eyes to. Not every body thinks the same as you. Remember you said a goth wants people so see that they are not similar to them or some thing like that. All the goths I have seen my whole life and talked to say its about the clothes, the music and they way the saw things different then every body else. Anyways I cant say a more because you have said it all. A goth is a creative person. Its about there lifestyle like you said Gypsy.


Cant say any more got to go before I am late for school.
Hopefully you get what I am trying to say.

[SuicideJade]

it's my personal sneaking suspicion that all children are born with that typically goth understanding, creativity and wonder, but as always there's unknown variables of how it will manifest itself in later life..
some kids have their notions squashed by less than openminded (but well meaning nevertheless) parents, never to feel that way again..
some have it squashed on the surface, but it's like one of those cockroaches that ate texas.. (the little bugger never dies)
and as always there's the lucky few that get the openminded dream parents that accept their little gothlings as they are, and *gasp* even encourage them to cultivate this budding wonderfulness that they display..
(i wish i would have hit that genetic jackpot! )
oops. and i almost forgot.. there are parents who feed the gothling's knowledge hungry soul and then seemed genuinely amazed at what they have created.. (my family, prime example)
my mom when i was very little read me to sleep.. my faveourite bedime stories that she would read.. the raven, the bells and the fall of the house of usher by edgar allan poe..
i hardly ever watched tv.. and when i did it was pbs
my great grandfather read me the newspaper when i was in preschool and by the time i got to kindergarten i could comprehend it..
in elementary school i'd read my mom's child psychology books for shits and giggles..
not having good manners was not an option in my strictly southern house
(i was raised by my great grandparents) and i was put in manners and modeling class as a kid.. my great grandma was determined to make me a lady..
it's the little things like that that help grow a kid's gothness (i'm sure there's a lot more everyone else can name) but we're all born with the potential.. but imho (inmyhumbleopinion) it's up to nurture and strength of will to decide how deep the rabbit hole goes..

[CHAOS_37KIA]

The lifestyle one is placed in or the environment makes one a goth and if interpted in my view point every true goth is born into the gothic lifestyle at one point in time and yes they are also born into it the way you say because they are born into the lifestyle that their surroundings place them in and being reborn to a goth is really dependant on the way one thinks and what one believes.

Later
CHAOS

[Gypsy2222]

Ok.... lol.... here we go... (be prepared for a read... lol...)

First of all, let me state that this post shall be done in all white due to the fact that two people I hold in fairly high regard (Giga and TStone) have requested the cesation of my purple text.... that being said...

Originally Posted by koehiir

I have to say, made a goth, because I am nothing like my parents (genetic base). I made a clear choice years ago to not be them, and changed a great many things in my life. I never made a choice to be goth, but as stated in another thread around here, goth is where I fit, amongst a great many other places. I still like the Hiesenberg Uncertainty Principle - the more you try to study/understand something, the more you change it. Of course, this just gets us back to the most hated question - what is goth? Which I will never ask on this site for fear of a serious flame incident.

So your stating that you chose individuality over "going with the flow"..... a most admirable pursuit by the way... Then you stated that in your quest to be yourself, you found that your nature coincided with what is considered goth... I fail to see how this refutes my claim as I am stating goth is a subculture one falls into by following their inherent natures.....

To address the "What is goth" statement... I have stated several times that my definition of goth closely resembles (with some minor variations) the definition found on the following site...

Blood Dance

If anyone else has another definition please explain your definitions... as it is necessary to the nature of this debate...

Onto...

Originally Posted by ghoulishmuse

It's silly because goth as a subculture has a very specific time and place. I may say something like goth started as a suburban thing, a response to the psychobabble that started to take over the education and other child raising systems. Everybody tells you to be happy, healthy, to fit in and if you do not they send you to that special "counselor." So you get really dark in response.

Or I could say that it starts at the origin of European industrialization, as a peculiar strand of thinking within the larger romantic movement. And then, every once in a while, it creeps back into the culture.

I would agree with the second, but taking it a step further thinking on the nature of the human race as a whole... as Mael had stated previously... Man has the ability to appreciate art and beauty... what kind of art and beauty is what seperates goths from society as a whole I would think... Man has always done this... this appreciation of varying types of things... so I would say that "goth"... though it has evolved as a subculture (do to societies limited acceptance of individuality and the need of social association that most goths feel in their own ways...) it has always been around as a thought process and general philosophy (though, of course it was much more rudimentary in past times) It would seem to follow, if one pursues this line of thinking, that goth has always been around, just under a different title and without so much social organization....

Originally Posted by ghoulishmuse

It would depend on how I use the term. Saying that one could be "born" goth pays no attention to the history behind the term, where the term came from, what happened to it. It would be like saying one could be "born" a hippie in 1870s Afghanistan.

Quite the contrary, I would think that a hippy could be born in 1870's Afghanistan if one felt the mental aptitude and fell into todays defined category of hippy, though I do not doubt that he or she might be called by another name... after all, a rose by any other name is still a rose...

Originally Posted by ghoulishmuse

But but but, before you take me off of the "ally" list, I think you make a good case here and on your website that "goth" actually contains a larger meaning. Perhaps we mean bohemian in the original sense of an avant garde lifestyle within an avant garde community.

My point exactly....

Originally Posted by ghoulishmuse

So maybe what we are really saying is that some of us may be born to question the social, sexual, spiritual roles that are given to us as our only options. That some of us are born to test the limits of what we have been given as a culture. Darkly, or otherwise. That some of us call these people goth in this particular time and place. If we say this, than I can agree that some of us are born goth.

Couldn't have said it better my self...

Whew.... onto the next....

Actually considering it's an agreeing (if somewhat dizzying) post... I'll simply say thank psyche for that most circular logic....

Originally Posted by Mr.Maelstrom

There's a line in The Crow that reminds me of this: "Childhood/innocence is over the moment you know that you're going to die."

Maybe I'm just stubborn, but accepting things as hereditary/genetic/born with is just something I can't/won't accept.

It's frighteningly close to saying your destiny is already written.

"The Gypsy women looked at young Corto Maltese's hand and said: -Your life line is very short.
So he went to his father's shaving box and opened it. There were seven straight razors in it. One for each day of the week.
He picked out the one for saturday, a silver razor with a hunting scene depicted upon it, and he carved onto his hand his own destiny".

You can also argue that it's more worthy to make something of yourself than being born with it.

I say not that destiny is in control of what you do.... only in control of what your working with... well, destiny and society... we a born with certain rudimentary abilities, tools, gifts ect. Like an idiot savant who has the ability to crunch numbers with amazing speed... except most of us have abilities that are not so unbalanced... I would argue that certain talents and traits can be instinctive in nature (like making love) and as such, though they maybe improved or changed with time and education, these gifts and abilities determine how we interact with society. Society and the people within it, of course, already have certain preconceptions about certain gifts (like making dark poetry) and thus subcategorizes, correctly or incorrectly, itself and the people within it to create subcultures such as goth.... That being said... lets move on.....

Originally Posted by Mr.Maelstrom

Gypsy, I'll take back what I've said. You're exactly where you might be needed most. Let's hope you get promoted often enough to be able to make a bigger difference.

And remember: "No fate but what we make".

Your sentiment is appreciated as always my friend... still.... I miss home..... not to mention I'd love to meet all of you on a face to face basis... That would be near a dream come true....


Ok... neeeext.... lol...

Originally Posted by Darkness_of_the_Night

Yes I know there is more then just the music and the clothes about being a goth. I also cant agree anymore about what you have been saying. See but you should look it through other people eyes to. Not every body thinks the same as you. Remember you said a goth wants people so see that they are not similar to them or some thing like that. All the goths I have seen my whole life and talked to say its about the clothes, the music and they way the saw things different then every body else. Anyways I cant say a more because you have said it all. A goth is a creative person. Its about there lifestyle like you said Gypsy.


Cant say any more got to go before I am late for school.
Hopefully you get what I am trying to say.

I think I do lass... I would like to point out that the whole point of this thread is so that I could have others ideas and oppinions that I might poke holes in my own logic... so indeed I am not trying to make everyone think like me... I am rather trying to understand why everyone thinks the way they do and in that understanding go through a metamophosis myself that my mind and ideas might ever expand....

That is all I'm going to "tackle" for now... Now that I think my mind is flying apart in a hurricane of thoughts and songs.....

One last thing though... the Blood dance site is not mine... I only came across it a while ago... it was written by Azhram...

Genuinely,
~The Gypsy~

[DelicateHorror]

I think that everyone has the potential in them to become "goth" but there are those who chose not to be and become part of the light. Those who do become "goth" may do so because of certain events in their lives, or realised that is who they are. It may be gradual or happen in a sudden moment of revelation or both or neither. I suppose there is a bit of the dark and light in all of us and obviously some have more of one than the other. Maybe, we start of with the same amount of each but something happens to tip the balance but the other is still always there. Even if it is only a small amount.
I suppose what I'm getting at is that those who are goth or enjoy the darker side of life were born with the potential to be that way and that is the way they chose but how much they evolved from that is a made thing.

If you find holes in my theory then I'm sorry as I have no time to proof read and have to go now. If it doesn't make sense then I'm not sorry because it makes sense to me and I think tht's the important thing, right?

[Darkness_Of_The_Night]

Originally Posted by Gypsy2222

Ok... neeeext.... lol...

I think I do lass... I would like to point out that the whole point of this thread is so that I could have others ideas and oppinions that I might poke holes in my own logic... so indeed I am not trying to make everyone think like me... I am rather trying to understand why everyone thinks the way they do and in that understanding go through a metamophosis myself that my mind and ideas might ever expand....

That is all I'm going to "tackle" for now... Now that I think my mind is flying apart in a hurricane of thoughts and songs.....

One last thing though... the Blood dance site is not mine... I only came across it a while ago... it was written by Azhram...

Genuinely,
~The Gypsy~

Okay fine what ever. I told you what I thought in my first post. If you did not like it then next time dont ask for people to but down if they think a person is born a goth or made a goth. Also for the last time to me a person can be born a goth and become a goth later in life.

[Giga]

Yes goth can be a title, but in reference to the conversation at hand, we are talking about the nature of what goth is, not so much the title. Note that at the end you yourself stated "...in reality is a goth", which is exactly what I am speaking of when I say a person is born a goth... the title has been polluted over the years by steriotypes and preconceptions but at the core the nature remains the same, hence one does not need to dress goth to indeed be a goth.....

I agree, I misinterpreted your text at first. I see we agree well =)

And Giga, it is not flattery, it is simply the truth..... You thought out your response and rebuttle, and I for one appreciate a person who thinks rather than reacts... I would even go so far as too say it is likely several people here appreciate the same.....

Of course its not flattery, I never thought that. I was just glad someone whom I have some respect for (I've never seen a post of yours that was stupid and/or so-short-its-almost-spam and I agree with you on most occassions) complements with me and actualy has respect and nerve to read my longish posts =). Its hard to find even in real life and even moreso on the internet.

That's why I love this community so much in such a short time, its so full of purely intelligent people.

[fallenangel666]

i dont think you can be born goth. you are a baby for crying out loud! you arent gonna know what the hell goth is, or music really. all you think about music is "oh wow, pretty......" not "sweet ass, this song is so goth!" or whatever. i think that when you know what the difference is between social classes and maturity is when you are able to become a real goth.

having a goth family or mother or father or whatever could help yeah, but it's not like gothicness runs in the family. genetics run in the family, not lifestyles!

[dealwithit]

Born a Goth or became one just to be the opposite of the people you hate most. to distinguish yourself from the people whose views you despise and principles you loath. Changing the way you used to act to be the person you have become. look at the world today and you will be fucking frightened so why not become a goth and scare the shit out of people for yourself, i mean face it we have better music, clothes and basically everything else; but isn't that the attitude we hate in other people. Being vindicated for the way we look and act is part of everyday life for most of us and yet we still have those views about other groups of people. so in fact becoming or being a goth doesn't change anything. it just comes from living in a world where everything depends on social scale with labels and rules. Goth is only a label not an upbringing or lifestyle.

[Gypsy2222]

Originally Posted by fallenangel666

i dont think you can be born goth. you are a baby for crying out loud! you arent gonna know what the hell goth is, or music really. all you think about music is "oh wow, pretty......" not "sweet ass, this song is so goth!" or whatever. i think that when you know what the difference is between social classes and maturity is when you are able to become a real goth.

having a goth family or mother or father or whatever could help yeah, but it's not like gothicness runs in the family. genetics run in the family, not lifestyles!

Once again we get into goth as a label vs. goth as a nature... I would find it interesting, to say the least, to find out exactly what you think is goth.... You really should read earlier in the post when we talked about "The clothes and music do not make the goth..." In your post it would appear that you believe that this is an incorrect statement... To me it would seem that "Societies interactions determine a goth " is dangeroulsly akin to saying "Society made me what I am and I blame everything on them..." as so many murderers would.... and if one goes into "I reacted to society the way I did and became goth because I chose to... what made you choose to? The music? The clothes? The art? Is that in itself not the appreciation of dark things? Where did this appreciation come from? From society?... But you just said that you chose.... ect.ect.ect... It goes round and round unless... one has the innate appreciation already within them...

Always,
~The Gypsy~

[bexxle]

Okay, I just wanted to know who we're making fun of today.

If it's me. You're so immature.

[DelicateHorror]

Oops I jsut realised I posted the same thing about 5 times. Sorry, my computer's playing up. :oops:

Moderator's note: Deleted your multi posts. Next time, don't hit submit so much. It does it the first time.

[Gypsy2222]

Originally Posted by dealwithit

Born a Goth or became one just to be the opposite of the people you hate most. to distinguish yourself from the people whose views you despise and principles you loath. Changing the way you used to act to be the person you have become. look at the world today and you will be fucking frightened so why not become a goth and scare the shit out of people for yourself, i mean face it we have better music, clothes and basically everything else; but isn't that the attitude we hate in other people. Being vindicated for the way we look and act is part of everyday life for most of us and yet we still have those views about other groups of people. so in fact becoming or being a goth doesn't change anything. it just comes from living in a world where everything depends on social scale with labels and rules. Goth is only a label not an upbringing or lifestyle.

To address the last statement first... You seem to think that goth is only a label... fair enough... Then I would pose this question... "If goth is only a label, How can something be gothic in nature?" (i.e. that painting is so goth). I say that there must be more... sure, we use the word as a label to define certain qualities and characteristics of something, lets say a song... but what qualities of said song would be there without soul behind it? Thus having an inherent gothic nature within it... An entire subculture is based around things goth... and in any subculture there are basic precepts and philosophies basic to it's nature as a subculture... hence the ideal "I am me, I am not afraid to be different, I like dark things, I am goth..."

Secondly, the only time I have ever been vindicated for the way I act and look is when a lass walks up to me and tries to get me in the sack... lol... I think you may have meant something else other than "Proven right and cleared of all blame".....

I also do not "Try to scare the shit out of other poeple" in being goth... I have no need to even talk to preps, jocks, ect. I do what I do and Like what I like because it is the way I am... The rest is inconsequential and to intentionally give out a negative personna like that gives other goths a bad name... Something I try not to do... Self defense is one thing but direct offense is something even I cannot condone.....

Always,
~The Gypsy~

[JoneZZe]

i've had a 'gothic' mentality for a long time, i've been the one to sit down and think alone in a corner, read, paint, i was shy. I have always been fairly bi-polar, very emotional, and always dark. i have no perticular intrest in grotesque and disgusting things, i ratherlook for the meloncholy beauty within all sorrow.

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Originally Posted by bexxle

Okay, I just wanted to know who we're making fun of today.

If it's me. You're so immature.

Well no, I think they were having a fairly focused discussion about something that had nothing to do with you..

Tough concept isn't it?

So no, Queen Ego..

No one was making fun of you..

Til Now...

Nyah!!

*hee*


Sorry Rom, I just woke up and am feeling fairly "immature"..

Please resume intelligent non-Bexxle related ranting...

:shock:

[Gypsy2222]

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

Well no, I think they were having a fairly focused discussion about something that had nothing to do with you..

Tough concept isn't it?

So no, Queen Ego..

No one was making fun of you..

Til Now...

Nyah!!

*hee*


Sorry Rom, I just woke up and am feeling fairly "immature"..

Please resume intelligent non-Bexxle related ranting...

:shock:

lol.... It's ok lass... I did notice, however, that you had not posted your position. Assuming you've read both sides of the discussion I am anxious to hear your views on the subject... So, were The Not so Empty Purple Stars of poetry born to her dark nature or were they created within?....

Always,
~The Gypsy~

[psyche]

Aw!

I see that as I come into this discussion with a hardline stance towards the Birth of Gothery within us... let me say that as everyones feelings as individuals compose the whole of what we've became and become collectively as Gothic *aughahahaha*, everyones nurturing within this environment has affected the feelings I've begun with... as it begins again.

There IS a balance.

We may be born as tools. A tool has little value until learned and used, as the true value of a tool may be moreso in the value of the works it creates, than what it is.

What tool are you?

Inherent is the use of a tool. It has purpose and destiny. One skilled with a hammer can create things upon things, as one unskilled may use it to destroy. Yet we'll never know if we don't try.

Traumatic
experiences

Loss of innocence
far too young

Knowledge that one is going to die
as if one hasn't ALREADY died
in ways upon ways before time

Broken. Brokenenvironments and brokenhearted. What WAS, a dream became no more, and now is stark reality. And in the aftermath, a potential to be filled as we rebuild. As children become adulterated, the tools are put in hand by need rather than curiosity. As one becomes a creator rather than the created.

*ow*

Must've banged meself on the noggin somewhere.
Where am I?

[fallenangel666]

well gypsy, you have utterly confused me! what i was saying had absolutely nothing to do with what you said! sorry, but it's true. all i was saying is that i dont think you can be born anything but what is in your blood. for example;race, your parents are white, you are too, they are black, you are black! if your parents were...say....preppy, you wont automatically be preppy, it is your choice! and no, i dont think you can only be gothic if you have gone through a dramatic or sad experience or whatever! that's the dumbest thing i have ever heard. my mom went through some nasty, sad, fucked up shit and she's not gothic. it is the lifestyle you lead, the personality you possess, not the clothes, not the music, nothing material really. it's all inside. (JCPenny)hehe.

[comatoast]

You do realize that ,IF I agree with you, we are going to have to discuss whether there is true free will.


I was looking over some of my work that i've written in regards to spirituality. In some of the papers I mentioned my belief that some are born to darkness and some to light(and some with equal protions of both...but thaaat's a different post).
Now, in applying that to this thread, I would have to say that some of us MAY be born with a smattering of darkness than can be nurtured by experiences in life.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say, is that (for now) I will concede your point.

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by fallenangel666

well gypsy, you have utterly confused me! what i was saying had absolutely nothing to do with what you said! sorry, but it's true. all i was saying is that i dont think you can be born anything but what is in your blood. for example;race, your parents are white, you are too, they are black, you are black! if your parents were...say....preppy, you wont automatically be preppy, it is your choice! and no, i dont think you can only be gothic if you have gone through a dramatic or sad experience or whatever! that's the dumbest thing i have ever heard. my mom went through some nasty, sad, fucked up shit and she's not gothic. it is the lifestyle you lead, the personality you possess, not the clothes, not the music, nothing material really. it's all inside. (JCPenny)hehe.

Um.....I'm havin' a hard time seeing why you'd be confused unless you didn't understand the question.Gypsy is saying just that.It's in your personality/blood,in other words you're born with it.You naturally like darker things the way some kids naturally like or dislike certain foods.

I believe I was both born and nurtured though.Lucky me,the one bright spot in my whole childhood.I can remember watching horror movies from the time I was practically born.Why did my mom let me watch scary movies at the ages kids watch teletubbies and blues clues?Because I wanted to and my mother saw no need to shield me from imaginary violence/gore.It's something that I was predisposed to be interested in and because it set me apart from the norm,mom kinda encouraged me.I've always read gothic, horror and vampire books and stories.Always liked 'scary' shows (hitchcock/night gallery/twilight zone) and the actors.

So,in my opinion,I was born goth.

[Maimy]

Strangely enough, I agree with fallenangel666 in some ways. TStone, the way you put it more precisely manages my perspective here, but --

wait a minute. Dude. Did I just say "manages my perspective here", like some sort of CORPORATE GOON?

Oh dear.

In a way, though, come to think of it, that almost illustrates a point here.

I was so totally not born a corporate goon. I became one out of disinterest in most of the Career Options available to a lazy girl who wanted to eat decently after college graduation.

Likewise, I wasn't born a wild child or a shy girl or a hippie or a heavy metal slut or any of the other million things I have made of myself over the years.

I was born a chameleon, possibly. Easily bored with living in any one way, any one box - I keep all sorts of personae available, and use them when appropriate.

Or grossly INappropriate.

I was solitary and introverted as a kid, but not particularly "dark" or "light" at all. I was unformed. Getting out of the mental silence required applying some gumption, but both the desire to get out of myself AND the gumption itself were something I had inside ready to develop.

I have been - am the product of and the promise for - a series of choices. My desires might lean in a way to create some sort of bent, but the fact of what I am is mostly conscious, mostly constructed. Yes, definitely calculated.

The idea that any of us is anything else, while I believe it's possible, is a bit alien to my head. Difficult to encompass.

But I'll say this - even when people look at my car and smile and remember dad's sports cars ... even when I thank my lucky stars that I was made the way I am - the idea that I was "born to BE" anything at all is practically offensive.

S'pose you can chuck me in the Free Will Believers club. I would appear to be into that stuff. Yeah.

[tickingstitch]

I am basing this argument off of my own nature. I would have to go with born Goth or born with darker tendencies. When, where, and how a person develops depends upon the personality of the individual to pursue their genuine interest and be the person on the outside and in action that matches who and what they feel internally. Not all beings are born with the nature to hunt what allows them to be at peace with themselves even in chaos. Change is constant. I will not graduate or escape it. What defines this nature such as Goth is how a person reacts or expresses him or herself in the midst of continual change that is defined as their identity. These actions have been reoccurring since my earliest memories and it wasn’t until I began to mature that I had to find an avenue to piece it together. I usually only wear all black when that is what I am: Sorrow, isolation, sacrifice, or even just drawn to without reason. It’s my action. It’s me. The way I have always been. How I express it is relative to where I am in my development. My personality has it is drawn to needs it craves it.