Shooting at Virginia Tech

[Drake Dun]

Are you following me now?

I think so. If I am, then the missing link in the chain is here:

...and thus we must blame society...

I don't think anybody who has participated in this thread, with the possible exception of Sternn, is saying that.

Drake

[Drake Dun]

Perhaps you would like to show me anything I have posted which supports that. The only way you can read that out of my posts if you go forward on the assumption that someone must be blamed. Since I am implicitly rejecting the idea of blaming Cho, the natural secondary target would of course be "society". As it happens, I do not share the assumption that enables this train of logic.

Bear in mind that there's a difference between identifying a cause and assigning blame.

Drake

[MollyMac]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

Bear in mind that there's a difference between identifying a cause and assigning blame.

Drake

Pretty much how I see it.

Blame is something that is assigned when there can be a consequence rendered, I think. We can blame Cho and... what? If he had lived, we could prosecute.

All the same, it is his fault. Fault being the ultimate cause. It was his hand that pulled the trigger. He was ultimately responsible for his actions.

You could then follow the chain of fingers to Cho, the gun (makers, seller, etc.), the girls who said "no", parents... but then we assign a level of guilt to everyone for living their lives as they choose.

[Toxic if Swallowed]

Ok, too many people have already posted to me to look through all of them. So if someone has already said something along these lines, I apologize in advance.

When I saw the video this waste of oxygen made I was sickened. This puke stain is an Eric Harris wannabe. And yes somehow this will be blamed on Marilyn Manson. I don't know how, but Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson are working on it right now, I can feel it.

This dude spouted off in the video about how he was tormented, "you spilt my blood, and now I must spill yours" or something to that effect. WTF, from what I have heard on the situation, dude's girl dumped him and that was on top of people ignoring him because he was quite and never really made an impact on anything. So he lost it because he couldn't deal with human emotions and killed a bunch of innocent people. WAY TO GO ASSHOLE, NOW YOUR DEAD AND THE ONLY IMPACT YOU HAVE MADE IS A NEGATIVE ONE!!!! ISN'T THAT JUST SPECTACULAR. YOU'RE MOTHER SHOULD HAVE GONE DEEPER WITH THE CLOTHES HANGER!!!!!

Then he compared himself to Jesus on the cross...I'm not even going to touch that one.

Seriously, people like this make me think Abortion should be free. In some cases encouraged.

Side Note - Notice how this mass murderer wasn't white. WOOHOO!!! Can't Blame Whitey For This One.

[Cyntrox]

Wait, wait, wait... What video?

[MollyMac]

His video "manifesto". Seriously, it was all over the news last week, I hope they stop showing it. But look it up if you want some of his ramblings and the likes.

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by Bloopie

Then who do you blame? Or do you blame nothing, like an idiot?

I identify Cho, and I guess his mental illness, as the most proximate (though not only) cause. I blame nobody. I will go into detail about this, but I'm going to use this chance to write another rambling essay, so I need to get some food in my stomach and organize my thoughts over a cup of coffee.

Drake

[Attitude_Stricken]

What's the point in blaming a dead guy, he can't sit in prison thinking "Oh well, I shot all these people. Wow I feel really bad about that."

He Was Mentally Ill. We will never know what his life was like, to him, as we are not him, we will never be him, and we will never know what was in his mind. I don't think its right to call him wasted oxygen or a low-life because we don't know. He was sick. People with mental problems think and deal with things differently.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Bloopie

Your life is useless. Your existence is useless. Your logic is useless. There is no point placing blame on your stupidity, because it must arise from a misunderstanding of logic, and thus we must blame society...and then blame what caused society to be that way, and what caused that, and so on and so forth ad infinitum.

Are you following me now?

Society always has an influence on the persons actions. To argue that a persons actions is dictated 100% is to ignore the science of sociology completely. Why would they have a science of sociology if were a 'myth'? I have degrees in Sociology and Psychology (I was a double major), and the one thing I learned during my university years was both factor in to all events which unfold in a persons life equally.

For example, in a few other threads (which are eerily coming together) I have pointed out that people have a different set of options, depending on their place of birth.

A child born in say affluential area in Connecticut to a family whose income is seven or eights figure will have many more options in his life than say one born in South Central L.A. Yes, the choices the child makes will directly effect his life as well, but one must take into account the environment which the child is raised, as it does play a leading role as well.

To try and say both children have an equal shot at becoming anything is a misnomer. To date, I don't know of any children from Compton who went on to hold top level CEO positions in Fortune 500 companies. I also don't know of any children from Greenwich that were arrested for killing rival gang members.

See where I am going?

Where that is an extreme example, you must take into account that all sociological factors do play a part. Yes, they may have a much smaller role than the ones in the aforementioned example, but their presence cannot be denied.

Therefore, yes, I agree the young man did have psychological factors which lead him to commit those acts. That being said, it is impossible to discount the fact that there were outside forces in society that had an effect on this person that also help lead to those events.

I'm not saying we should not blame the man for his actions, what I am saying is that discounting the fact that there are outside influences will assure that another volatile individual who is subjected to those stimuli, whatever they are, will once again set forth the same series of events.

If you wish to stop a further similar event from occurring, one must fully understand all aspects and take actions to stop them from an internal, psychological approach was well as simultaneously taking an external, sociological approach to avoid the same situation.

Since this man is dead, we can only study the external factors. By identifying them, and removing them from the mixture, it's like removing the flame that ignites the wick which leads to a bomb. Even if another individual does have the same explosive internal mix, by removing those external factors which ignite him we can thus avoid a future calamity.

[HumanePain]

Convincing argument Captain. The only counter statement I can reasonably make is that there are a lot of people from all walks of life that are rejected by significant others, that experience oppression and other similar circumstances that Cho complained about in his video, that do not choose to mass murder.

Now perhaps this is indicative of a natural resilience that most of us have, some inhibitory function, that was absent in Cho. We cannot know because he is now dead and cannot be analyzed. There are those in prison who have committed similar crimes that can be studied, from which we may infer and extrapolate what Cho's motivations and defects were, but we can only guess.

But persuasive argument I must say.

[655322]

Not sure if you can put the blame solely on his parents and family. That's a bit harsh.

Who should Gnet blame for Bloopie?

[655322]

Originally Posted by Bloopie

I've chosen to be an insufferable, and rather malignant asshole.

How's that going for you? Enjoying your life?

[655322]

Interesting... I might try it then. Thanks cunt!

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Convincing argument Captain. The only counter statement I can reasonably make is that there are a lot of people from all walks of life that are rejected by significant others, that experience oppression and other similar circumstances that Cho complained about in his video, that do not choose to mass murder.

I fully agree with you. There are many who are subjected to the same external stimuli, however, they must first have an internal (i.e. psychological) disorder to set off such a chain of events. So your right, many might be subjected to oppression or other similar situations, but unless they also have the matching psychosis then they will not become a mass murder.

It's a balance between the two - it starts with the persons psychological disorder, but extreme violence and/or other violent acts will not surface until the individual experiences a traumatic event or series of events that gives them that 'push' that sets them off.

[cradle]

Originally Posted by Toxic if Swallowed

Ok, too many people have already posted to me to look through all of them. So if someone has already said something along these lines, I apologize in advance.

When I saw the video this waste of oxygen made I was sickened. This puke stain is an Eric Harris wannabe. And yes somehow this will be blamed on Marilyn Manson. I don't know how, but Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson are working on it right now, I can feel it.

This dude spouted off in the video about how he was tormented, "you spilt my blood, and now I must spill yours" or something to that effect. WTF, from what I have heard on the situation, dude's girl dumped him and that was on top of people ignoring him because he was quite and never really made an impact on anything. So he lost it because he couldn't deal with human emotions and killed a bunch of innocent people. WAY TO GO ASSHOLE, NOW YOUR DEAD AND THE ONLY IMPACT YOU HAVE MADE IS A NEGATIVE ONE!!!! ISN'T THAT JUST SPECTACULAR. YOU'RE MOTHER SHOULD HAVE GONE DEEPER WITH THE CLOTHES HANGER!!!!!

Then he compared himself to Jesus on the cross...I'm not even going to touch that one.

Seriously, people like this make me think Abortion should be free. In some cases encouraged.

Side Note - Notice how this mass murderer wasn't white. WOOHOO!!! Can't Blame Whitey For This One.

Wow...You're a total fucking idiot.

[ArtificialOne]

Typical socialist stern...

Society didn't do this to Cho, Cho did this to society.

As I stated earlier, he picked a popular cause witht he left and hince is a huge role model to stern.

People with his psychology pick all sorts of wierd and unusual causes to rage against. He grew up in an afluencial suburb of dc with well off parents, this wasn't some poor kid from the slums. He could have picked any number of things to blame, late night tv, oprah, mcdonalds, insects, water, air...etc.. it can go on and on.. and if any of you ahve read about paranoid schitzofrenia you'll know there can be some bizarre reasons that these people rage against.

So no matter what stern says about the evils of society. The blame lies in a crazy persons head. <period> <buck stops there>

And, if anyone is reading the news the NRA has backed a bill that will ban people with mental dissorders from owning guns. Which would have greatly reduced the number of people killed. Usually when paranoid schizo's go off the handle they usually use knives or their own fists. I know in Adelaide, Aus where I used to live is the capitol of crazy people in Australia there were weekly nut cases going off the handle and stabbing or beating people up.

[Renatus]

I just hope they get into extreme detail about what a mental disorder is, because they very well might call autism a mental disorder for the sake of this and not specify the types or the severity preventing me from ever achieving gun ownership. yes I know run on sentence I am working on it but in rl I tend to rarely pause long enough to start a different sentence when it comes to debates like this.

[ArtificialOne]

I'm pretty sure that to be denied a gun you'd have to go through the courts and be deemed "dangerous to yourself and others". Which I think sometime Cho got diagnosed.

[biohazard]

My parents were freaked out when they heard this news. They talked to me very concerned about me, because they think that I have very similiar traits as the asian who did this. My parents will never like me for who I am, and they blame anything bad that happens on the gothic culture.