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11-02-2008, 03:35 PM
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#26
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Yew City
Posts: 2,413
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Yep. Honey, wax, milk, butter, gelatin... if it came from, is derived from/by the work or if it is from any other exploitation of an animal.. sorry that i did not make it abundantly clear
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11-02-2008, 03:59 PM
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#27
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Namibia
Posts: 2,526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MollyMac
Yep. Honey, wax, milk, butter, gelatin... if it came from, is derived from/by the work or if it is from any other exploitation of an animal.. sorry that i did not make it abundantly clear
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No. You implied that honey was meat. Vegetarians can't eat MEAT. Byproducts are fine with vegetarians, it's vegans that can't eat those. Gelatin is not a byproduct, it's made from hooves.
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11-02-2008, 04:00 PM
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#28
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Namibia
Posts: 2,526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Albert Mond
No. You implied that honey was meat. Vegetarians can't eat MEAT. Byproducts are fine with vegetarians, it's vegans that can't eat those. Gelatin is not a byproduct, it's made from hooves.
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Erm. Actually, possibly a byproduct. But definitely meat.
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11-02-2008, 04:08 PM
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#29
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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Depends on the vegetarian, Albert. Ovo-lacto vegetarians eat eggs and drink milk, lacto vegetarians will drink milk but not eat eggs, and ovo vegetarians will eat eggs but won't drink milk. The possibilites! And as a vegetarian I never eat honey either.
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11-02-2008, 04:10 PM
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#30
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Namibia
Posts: 2,526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Saya
Depends on the vegetarian, Albert. Ovo-lacto vegetarians eat eggs and drink milk, lacto vegetarians will drink milk but not eat eggs, and ovo vegetarians will eat eggs but won't drink milk. The possibilites! And as a vegetarian I never eat honey either.
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True. I was being rather broad. I've known vegetarians who ate fish (which seems rather silly to me).
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11-02-2008, 04:14 PM
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#31
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 627
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Alot of medicine testing on animals is done for testing how much it spreads in a 3d circulatory systems.
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11-02-2008, 04:23 PM
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#32
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Albert Mond
True. I was being rather broad. I've known vegetarians who ate fish (which seems rather silly to me).
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They aren't vegetarians. They are pescetarians.
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11-02-2008, 04:24 PM
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#33
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the concrete and steel beehive of Southern California
Posts: 7,449
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Raptor
Less important, not unimportant.
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Right Raptor. 'Tis simple priorities.
If people are willing to use human stem cells to advance medicine, why not use animal cells too? If one is against using animals for research but for using humans then that is inconsistent (I refrain from using "hypocritical"), because if the logic is that animals are just as equal as humans, then humans deserve equal protection.
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11-02-2008, 04:45 PM
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#34
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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Originally Posted by HumanePain
Right Raptor. 'Tis simple priorities.
If people are willing to use human stem cells to advance medicine, why not use animal cells too? If one is against using animals for research but for using humans then that is inconsistent (I refrain from using "hypocritical"), because if the logic is that animals are just as equal as humans, then humans deserve equal protection.
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Why not? An embryo is an embryo is an embryo. I don't know how animal embryos would help human problems at all, however, and I don't think the scientists would be too gentle in extracting the eggs from an animal.
And thats the problem, humans get lots of protection and yes they deserve it, but animals have none. I don't know how it is in the US but here in Canada animals legally are classified as property, yes the SPCA will take your cat or your dog or your horse away if you're starving it, but rats and such? You can do whatever you will. My roommate is a biology major, she'll be graduating in April, she wanted to go into research but after seeing what they do to rats she changed her mind.
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11-02-2008, 04:50 PM
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#35
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 627
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You don't have to be in animal testing. My Btech lecturer just Bacteria testing.
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11-02-2008, 04:54 PM
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#36
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,548
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Yeah but our university is absolutely terrible >.< I heard its the worst university in Canada when it comes to animal testing. Last year me and a friend decided to adopt fish after they were done testing with them (otherwise they get flushed down the drain...alive), they were all sickly and died in no time. I'm not really sure what she wanted to go into research for either, to be honest.
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11-02-2008, 05:14 PM
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#37
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,678
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HumanePain
Right Raptor. 'Tis simple priorities.
If people are willing to use human stem cells to advance medicine, why not use animal cells too? If one is against using animals for research but for using humans then that is inconsistent (I refrain from using "hypocritical"), because if the logic is that animals are just as equal as humans, then humans deserve equal protection.
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Yeah, they're always deliberately brain-damaging humans born into captivity.
As for honey, not as simple as it seems. For a start, hundreds of bees get crushed in extracting honey from hives. Also, they routinely kill the queen bee and re-queen the colony to keep up productivity. Bees really ought to have dropped monarchism by now, but their political ignorance does not deserve death.
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11-02-2008, 06:23 PM
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#38
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Yew City
Posts: 2,413
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No, i did not imply that honey was meat. You cannot read.
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11-02-2008, 06:55 PM
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#39
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Namibia
Posts: 2,526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MollyMac
No, i did not imply that honey was meat. You cannot read.
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Allow me to explain. I mention vegetarianism.
You write this: " Veganism cuts out all bovine, swine, bee, etc. products and exploitations, not just the muscle and honey."
The last bit implies that vegetarianism cuts out muscle and honey.
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11-02-2008, 08:04 PM
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#40
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Yew City
Posts: 2,413
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None of the vegarians I know partake of honey. What's your point?
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11-02-2008, 08:08 PM
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#41
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Namibia
Posts: 2,526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MollyMac
None of the vegarians I know partake of honey. What's your point?
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In that case, perhaps I should get off the stuff. Hope it's not too late to edit.
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11-02-2008, 08:13 PM
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#42
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Yew City
Posts: 2,413
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Eh, it hardly matters. It's an odd hard line they follow- they shun honey because portions of bees are caught up in it. Yet, they eat peanut better which has decidedly more insect portions.
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11-02-2008, 08:46 PM
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#43
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: northeast us
Posts: 887
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Anything short of Jainism is compromising the suffering of other life forms for one's own convenience. Yes, even slacker vegans - if you really cared about other forms of life, you'd be out there barefoot with a broom in front of you. Otherwise you just don't care what you step on.
The well-being of a person outweighs the well-being of an animal. Unfortunately, before it can be safely used in human trials, things like new medicines need to be tested on animals. Wish it were different, but if that is what it takes to get treatments that won't kill patients, then too bad for the mice.
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11-02-2008, 09:05 PM
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#44
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Yew City
Posts: 2,413
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Since we are all about testing on lesser forms of life, why can we just not test on humans in third world countries? We'd decrease population. We could then feed their leftover meat to the hungry and make tents of their flesh for the homeless so that those higher up the human food chain can live better with Red No. 3.
A soul is a soul, no matter how you slice it, and we harm each other as humans as much as we harm animals, may as well complete the circle and test on ourselves so that the results will fucking matter.
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11-02-2008, 09:08 PM
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#45
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 627
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If you knew how testing is done you would know the last phases are human testing. How about Bacteria do they have souls? If not why?
Is it out right to kill them off for the sake of one human life?
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11-02-2008, 09:10 PM
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#46
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Yew City
Posts: 2,413
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I know how testing is done, and believe the last steps should be the only steps. Animal testing carries over very little to human testing.
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11-02-2008, 09:12 PM
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#47
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Namibia
Posts: 2,526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wednesday Friday Addams
If you knew how testing is done you would know the last phases are human testing. How about Bacteria do they have souls? If not why?
Is it out right to kill them off for the sake of one human life?
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What's a single bacteria's usual lifespan?
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11-02-2008, 09:12 PM
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#48
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 627
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No you see animal testing is still very important when testing 3d matrix's and such. Lots can be done with human tissue alot of tests still can't.
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11-02-2008, 09:13 PM
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#49
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 627
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Albert Mond
What's a single bacteria's usual lifespan?
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Depends. They split so technically it can be quite long.
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11-02-2008, 09:15 PM
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#50
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Namibia
Posts: 2,526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wednesday Friday Addams
Depends. They split so technically it can be quite long.
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But splitting's reproduction, isn't it? Aren't those usually asexual?
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