Rediscovering of Religion

[Aaroneet]

I described this a little in the 'Rant Thread', so I apologize for repeating myself, and for starting a new thread; however, I felt compelled to go into more detail. For the first time, I've truly felt as though I was at the receiving end of religious bigotry, particularly anti-Semitism. Judaism has always been something that's separated me from others; I never could quite know what it was like to celebrate Christmas. Even when I was little and the idea seemed to fill my dreams in a sort of fanciful way, my mother snatched the idea away as though it were a forbidden fruit. And I regretted having to be the only girl in my class, as foolish as it seems, to "carry the torch", so to speak, when I was Bat-Mitzvaed. I shied from it; the more my mother encouraged me to embrace Judaism as a part of myself, the more I rejected it. At eleven, I decided that God did not exist. Though it was the thought of a mind not quite ready to let go of the concept of God. So I lived like a hypocrite; praying and claiming that God did not exist. Then again, it was a force of habit; I couldn't stop because I barely thought about praying.

I felt little closeness to my religion; it seemed to be a religion that was somewhat bastardized in my eyes. Something was looked upon with disdain when it was "Jewish". People who "looked Jewish" were ugly. I had the appearance, and was told so. Again and again. I spent years in temple trying to find that closeness to a Jewish God. But I found eliticism. I was drifting further and further from my family in religious ideals as I knew it; if Judaism was a bastardization in society, then I wanted no part of it.

I then resorted to calling myself agnostic in an attempt to justify my praying to a God, even though I was really deistic. Though I still loathed the Jewish religion. And, in a certain respect, I still loathe it. I loathe the stereotypes that are associated with it; I loathe setting my eyes on the slurs when I become immersed in my summer reading. I loathe how my grandmother takes religion into account when she judges others. But most of all, I loathe how I discovered that I had been Jewish all along; when I heard someone refer to Judaism in a negative light, my anger began to rise. I was offended, but how could I be offended when I never identified with the Jewish religion? A surge of pride seemed to pulse through my veins as the negative words echoed in my head. And there was God; there were my somewhat fantasical ancestors who descended from Israel. There was my grandmother; there was Judaism in its purest form. It became cultural; it became natural; it became a part of me. Bigotry did not own me anymore; I was my own person. I am free to relate with myself, and to identify with my religion. This is not a whine, rather, more than a cry of triumph; I have embraced my religion, and the part of myself that has eluded me for five years. For the first time, I can clearly say that I'm Jewish and proud of it.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Personally I am glad you can now say you are Jewish and proud of it. It might have taken a long time to accept it, but that time you spent rejecting it taught you something apparently. And now being able to say you are Jewish is a wonderful thing.

I have done the same thing. But I now accept that I am Christian and now I do not worship the Devil just to piss people off.

[Nitocris]

All I can say is congratulations!

[Onetwothree]

Errr...deism <> praying to God. I don't think you have a good grasp of what you are feeling, or talking about. I don't think you know yourself, or the truth at all yet. Try harder.

[Nitocris]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

Errr...deism <> praying to God. I don't think you have a good grasp of what you are feeling, or talking about. I don't think you know yourself, or the truth at all yet. Try harder.

And you are qualified to judge the original poster's statements on their own feelings relating to god HOW? They are not sitting around and giving definitions on how other people relate to god, but on how THEY do.

[Aaroneet]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

Errr...deism <> praying to God. I don't think you have a good grasp of what you are feeling, or talking about. I don't think you know yourself, or the truth at all yet. Try harder.

Well, I am sorry for making that mistake, but, as far as my own feelings about God go, I can only try to find solace. And I've found that much. Thank you for your concern.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Nitocris

And you are qualified to judge the original poster's statements on their own feelings relating to god HOW? They are not sitting around and giving definitions on how other people relate to god, but on how THEY do.

Now we need qualifications to tell a person they are using the word deism, and agnosticism wrong?

I don't care about imaginary friends really, but at least get your shit straight. Keep your imaginary friends, but you need to grow up someday and realize that your beliefs are just as relevant as someone who believes in magical fairies in their bedroom.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Aaroneet

Well, I am sorry for making that mistake, but, as far as my own feelings about God go, I can only try to find solace. And I've found that much. Thank you for your concern.

Why do you talk about this thing as if it exists? Can I offer you a chance to explain your belief, rationally? Wait, that is too loaded.

Can you explain your belief, using your own knowledge? I am sure I can give you answers that are better than the ones you have.

[Saddiction]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

I have done the same thing. But I now accept that I am Christian and now I do not worship the Devil just to piss people off.

That has got to be the most retarded thing I've ever read. So you were worshipping the devil to piss people off eh? oooo you rebel you. Way to feed the stereotypes. You really ought to give yourself a pat on the back. When did you realize that you're actually a Christian and not a poseur Satanist? Last week?

[Saddiction]

Replace 'realize' with 'decide'. That would seem more fitting. Damn 5 minute edit limit.

[Nitocris]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

Now we need qualifications to tell a person they are using the word deism, and agnosticism wrong?

I don't care about imaginary friends really, but at least get your shit straight. Keep your imaginary friends, but you need to grow up someday and realize that your beliefs are just as relevant as someone who believes in magical fairies in their bedroom.

Why don't we just skip the whole "I'm a hardass atheist, look at meeee!" song & dance, okay? It's really old, tired & lame.

The definition of theism is "belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world". That is exactly what the original poster was referring to when they used the term theist. I don't know what upside-down pineapple cake universe you come from, but there is no misuse of that word in the original post.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Nitocris

Why don't we just skip the whole "I'm a hardass atheist, look at meeee!" song & dance, okay? It's really old, tired & lame.

The definition of theism is "belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world". That is exactly what the original poster was referring to when they used the term theist. I don't know what upside-down pineapple cake universe you come from, but there is no misuse of that word in the original post.

*yawn* Try harder. Maybe you didn't read the part I was referencing? Oh well...still...try harder, you're fucking retarded.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Nitocris

The definition of theism is "belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world".

When did we start talking about theism?
I thought Onetwothree was talking about deism.

[Nitocris]

Ahahahaha. I actually totally read that wrong and replaced the wrong word(deism, which is, indeed, incorrect!) with the right word(theism) in my head. That is really really funny, and I apologize for being wrong(Right?). :P

I still think Onetwothree was being unecessarily judgemental. Yeah, I know, no rules around here about that, doesn't mean I have to agree with what someone says, and I stand by that opinion.

[Onetwothree]

Your opinions mean shit when faced with facts. Truth prevails, and bullshit wails [see you]. GTFO.

[Nitocris]

I have a fact for you...there is no scientific method to prove the existence or non-existence of a supreme deity. When there is, I will be more than happy to accept whatever facts will be brought up, but as things stand now it is all a matter of personal opinion and you would do well to respect that.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Nitocris

Ahahahaha. I actually totally read that wrong and replaced the wrong word(deism, which is, indeed, incorrect!) with the right word(theism)

Why do you say wrong word?
Deism is a word. It means the belief that there is a supernatural being which does not interact with its creation.
Deism
: a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe
(www.m-w.com)
And the original poster also said deism, not theism, so what makes it a wrong word?

Originally Posted by Nitocris

I have a fact for you...there is no scientific method to prove the existence or non-existence of a supreme deity.

There's also no scientific method that can prove that there's no green pandimensional hippopotamus at the end of the universe, but I'm not going to believe in it just because I cannot disprove it.

but as things stand now it is all a matter of personal opinion

Just because we do not have the complete information about anything doesn't mean that everything is a matter of personal opinion.
On the contrary, with the little information we have, we have to create our understanding of the universe, seeing as it's the logical thing to do.
Speculations that go beyond the current information are nothing but that: speculations.
They might eventually lead to a better understanding of the universe later on, but in the present it would be stupid to take a speculation as truth.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Nitocris

I have a fact for you...there is no scientific method to prove the existence or non-existence of a supreme deity. When there is, I will be more than happy to accept whatever facts will be brought up, but as things stand now it is all a matter of personal opinion and you would do well to respect that.

You would do well to come closer to the truth, rather than be a dipshit and claim your opinion has any worth.

There is no proven scientific method to prove the non-existance of ANYTHING. Because science doesn't deal in things it has never seen, or known of, because the things most likely do NOT EXIST. There is an infinitely large chance that flying hippos do not exist. If a flying hippo is found, it does not contradict science, because science cannot make predictions about things seemingly improbable.

So if you think your belief is worthy of being yours, then why don't you pick up another belief? They are all equally as delusional, and equally proven. What feels right, and what is right are two different things. That can be evidenced by the backwards, racist thinking of Americans.

Weak-atheism/strong-agnosticism = the most likely answer. It's not a matter of if I am right, it's just I am more LIKELY to BE right than you [by a large margin]. That is the problem here. Your chances of being right are something like 1 in ~infinity, and mine are inversely the same. So I have an near infinite chance of being right, and you have a near infinite chance of being wrong. This is not hyperbole; this is approximately the correct probability. Read that again.

Your chance of being right is 1 in ~infinity, and mine is ~infinity to 1. So I have a 1 in ~infinity chance of being wrong, and you have a 1 in ~infinity chance of being right. Isn't that fucking mind-boggling? I can never understand how people can openly deny such an obvious thought-experiment. I mean...even a stupid person can come to that same conclusion. I mean, if you flip a coin, you will probably never see it land on edge, but that's what you are doing. You are flipping a coin, and hoping it lands on edge. You are patently--fucking--insane.

With the knowledge I have bestowed you will you proceed in denying all rational, logical, and all probable things so that you may remain believing in something?

[Nitocris]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

With the knowledge I have bestowed you will you proceed in denying all rational, logical, and all probable things so that you may remain believing in something?

You haven't bestowed any knowledge upon me that I wasn't already aware of.

It seems you really must believe in God, because you appear to be under the impression that you're omniescent and know my every thought and opinion when in reality you know so little about me that any assumption as to whether I am deluded or ignorant is ridiculous.

For your clarification, I would consider myself religious with the caveat that I could be entirely, absolutely wrong. There could be no god whatsoever. I admit it fully because I said myself, there is no method to prove my beliefs and I won't know until the day I die and I'm fine with that. If I end up being wrong, then there will be no consequence to anyone. I don't believe in preaching to people or mocking those with different beliefs, so my sphere of influence due to my religious beliefs will be nil.

However, there IS a consequence for YOU if you persist in being so grating and hateful to anyone of a spiritual persuasion; nobody will give a shit about what you have to say because nobody listens to a mealy-mouthed smartass who is disrespectful and self-righteous right off the bat.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Nitocris

You haven't bestowed any knowledge upon me that I wasn't already aware of.

It seems you really must believe in God, because you appear to be under the impression that you're omniescent and know my every thought and opinion when in reality you know so little about me that any assumption as to whether I am deluded or ignorant is ridiculous.

For your clarification, I would consider myself religious with the caveat that I could be entirely, absolutely wrong. There could be no god whatsoever. I admit it fully because I said myself, there is no method to prove my beliefs and I won't know until the day I die and I'm fine with that. If I end up being wrong, then there will be no consequence to anyone. I don't believe in preaching to people or mocking those with different beliefs, so my sphere of influence due to my religious beliefs will be nil.

However, there IS a consequence for YOU if you persist in being so grating and hateful to anyone of a spiritual persuasion; nobody will give a shit about what you have to say because nobody listens to a mealy-mouthed smartass who is disrespectful and self-righteous right off the bat.

So I was right. You are hoping the coin lands on edge. Nicely done...another classic long-winded theist response. Try harder.

[Nitocris]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

So I was right, you are hoping the coin-lands on edge. Nice classic long-winded theist response. Try harder.

Says the person who wrote several long paragraphs in the post I was replying to. Oh, but it's okay when it's YOU doing it, I guess?

Have a clue; I don't care whether you're an atheist or not, and you shouldn't care whether I am or not. My whole point was that you are being overly hostile, and you have proven me correct the whole way through. I'd use your favorite phrase and tell you to try harder, but it looks like you already dug yourself into a nice, deep proverbial grave. Keep digging, maybe you'll hit gold!

Jillian; I meant that it is wrong in the context in which it was used. They meant "theism" and not "deism". Deism is something different from theism. And I don't expect you to believe anything and I respect and understand how you feel. I only expect that people extend the same to myself and others.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Nitocris

Jillian; I meant that it is wrong in the context in which it was used. They meant "theism" and not "deism".

Well, we have to ask aroneet about that, don't we?
It would be very arbitrary of us to decide if she really meant 'deist' or 'theist' when the only thing she said about that is "I was really *insert deity perspective*"

[Nitocris]

She said so herself that it was a mistake up in the top of the thread.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Nitocris

Says the person who wrote several long paragraphs in the post I was replying to. Oh, but it's okay when it's YOU doing it, I guess?

Have a clue; I don't care whether you're an atheist or not, and you shouldn't care whether I am or not. My whole point was that you are being overly hostile, and you have proven me correct the whole way through. I'd use your favorite phrase and tell you to try harder, but it looks like you already dug yourself into a nice, deep proverbial grave. Keep digging, maybe you'll hit gold!

Jillian; I meant that it is wrong in the context in which it was used. They meant "theism" and not "deism". Deism is something different from theism. And I don't expect you to believe anything and I respect and understand how you feel. I only expect that people extend the same to myself and others.

My whole point is that you are almost certainly wrong, and I am almost certainly right. With that knowledge, you should immediately change your ideas. Because it's logically sound. But, I see you are not of sound mind.

[Nitocris]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

My whole point is that you are almost certainly wrong, and I am almost certainly right. With that knowledge, you should immediately change your ideas. Because it's logically sound. But, I see you are not of sound mind.

I find it hilarious that you are basically trying to convert people with shame and insults, much like many religious groups, whereas I really don't give a fig about whether someone agrees with me or not. Who looks better here, do you think?