93-year-old froze to death, owed big utility bill

[Saya]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/sto...6740934&page=1

Just thought to give this a bit of a followup, according to abcnews the city has removed all limiters until they can figure out how to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...386/1409/METRO

This one mentioned that neighbours believed Schur had dementia and had trouble following directions, its being investigated by city officials.

http://www.mlive.com/news/bay-city/i...ric_rates.html

And yesterday the city voted to raise the electric rates by 3 percent, and talks about how this year limiters have been used three times more than they have last year, and they send out fifty shut off notices a week.

[KontanKarite]

Okay, so exactly how is the electric company accountable? He still didn't have a caretaker.

I'm sorry, but something does sound like someone was being negligent, but it's not the fault of the electric company.

[KontanKarite]

Mein Gott, people are silly. I don't think they're being logical about this. So one guy, 55, says he's outraged by the death of this man and thinks elderly people shouldn't have their electricity shut off if they can't pay their bills.

All I have to say is I'm kinda pissed at those bitching about this man dying. If neighbors knew of his condition, then where the fuck were they? Obviously a 93 year old dementia person needs someone to at least check up on them every now and then. But I guess it's too fucking much to just walk across the street, knock on his door, and see if he's still alive. You know, because authority has to be proactive and not people. They can fuck right off.

[badteccy]

Originally Posted by jack_the_knife

That's rather irresponsible of the electricity board. They should at least be charged with manslaughter.

Oh, please. The company was just doing their job. It may seem unfair, but sorry, kiddo...it IS life.
As far as the neighbors go, someone should have checked up on him for sure, but in the end...it was just an unfortunate case that isn't anyone's fault, really.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by badteccy

Oh, please. The company was just doing their job. It may seem unfair, but sorry, kiddo...it IS life.
As far as the neighbors go, someone should have checked up on him for sure, but in the end...it was just an unfortunate case that isn't anyone's fault, really.

Exactly. If anyone wants to point fingers in this, then all who are actually involved with this man at all should start by pointing at themselves.

[badteccy]

btw

"WAH WAH WAH! BIG CORPORATIONS HAVE IT OUT FOR EVERYONE! FUCK THE SYSTEM FUCK THE SYSTEM!"


basically...ugh.

[KontanKarite]

Roflcopter!

[badteccy]

What's sad is that a lot of these gothic.net jackasses have that mentality for serious.

Well, adulthoods gotta happen sometime, rite?

[dead_dreams]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

http://tinyurl.com/c3krbf

BAY CITY, Mich. – A 93-year-old man froze to death inside his home just days after the municipal power company restricted his use of electricity because of unpaid bills, officials said.

HAHAHA!

This wasn't as shocking as I thought it would be.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by badteccy

What's sad is that a lot of these gothic.net jackasses have that mentality for serious.

Well, adulthoods gotta happen sometime, rite?

Their folly is not that they believe that corporations are out to destroy lives, but that EVERY corporation is out to destory lives as if they're at their core, machines of hate. This isn't entirely true.

IN FACT, what they fail to see is that it's not the system of trade that hurts others as it's society itself. "The Customer Is Always Right" is more constricting and damning than a company or corporation wanting to dominate people's way of life.

Essentially, whatever the people want, capitalism will respond accordingly.

That's why it's been such a struggle for things such as equal gender treatment, racial equality, and hell, even right down to the way someone looks in general. If the general customer wasn't so fucking bigotted, you would see a much less bigotted form of capitalism.

It's not every company's sole existance to stamp out the "undesirables".

[Solumina]

You want to know a fun fact? If the guy was unable to pay then in cold months he would qualify for assistance through the VA (Veterans' Admin for those who were wondering) once a shut off notice has been given (usually after three unpaid billing periods). The VA will subsidize a veteran's essential costs (I'm not 100% sure but I think that they only cover electric if it provides heat, so if you have gas or oil heat they will pay for that but not your electric) so this guy would have had his heat paid for if someone had been on top of things. Sadly this guy didn't seem to have anyone who was looking out for him.

[KontanKarite]

Yep. That's about it. Though this sounds pretty fucked up, he's 93 and had dementia. I suppose he's lived a long full life. Yeah, it sucks, but I can't really be too damned sad for him.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I don't understand how that works. Who pays for it? Is it some kind of communal heating program?

It's not necessarily paid for. It just allows the heater to work while everything else is shut off. They can be charged for the heating electricity later because it would still register on the meter. Or the company just considers it lost money in return for keeping someone from freezing.

But it's true that it's a sad case of unfortunate circumstances. Lack of guardian, lack of right mind, lack of other stuff... It all conflated and ended up with the guy dying.
I don't think it would be that common. He would probably have been alright if any of these lacks had been filled. People with someone to check on them or who don't have a debilitating mental disorder will get the problem sorted or move in with someone else for a bit or ask for assistance elsewhere.

[jack_the_knife]

At first I was quite peeved that this happened, but I didn't realize the electricity suppliers showed a year of leniency and that he ran up a 1grand bill. I have to agree that it was his own stupid fault. So I guess it sucks to be him but that's life...

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Renatus, it doesn't work that way. You don't get heat for free. It's a service that you pay for. Sure, it'd be fucking amazing to get heat for free, but that heat has to come from somewhere, be it gas or electricity, which is the service of the same company.

You do in most first world countries. America has you brainwashed to the point where you think that the government doesn't need to provide an old man heat on a freezing night. You really think that the government has no obligation to prevent this sort of thing?

Now sure, I could go on a rant about what I think people should have an undeniable right to: Nutrition, shelter, work, time, and cleanliness

But this is not an example I would want to use to back up my claims to those rights or entitlements that I think all people want.

So this doesn't fall under your definition of 'shelter'?

Much like many Americans look at under-aged kids working in sweat shops in southern Asia and think, wow, thats wrong, while if you lived there is doesn't seem like a big thing - Europe looks at America the same way when we see stuff like this happening.

The fact the government has no one to look out for the elderly, has no programmes to provide heat to those who can't afford it, the fact a man was allowed to die and now many people there blame the dead man, well, it seems quite barbaric when your used to living a nation that is surrounded by other nations who passed laws decades ago to prevent this sort of thing.

[Malice In Wonderland]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

No it's not fucking tragic.
Sad, maybe--that's up to you.

It's definitely not fucking tragic when a 93 year old man dies and it's his own fault.
You cheapen tragedy by calling this tragic.

It's pretty tragic that he died in such a nasty way?

[nis~sijai]

Originally Posted by Malice In Wonderland

It's pretty tragic that he died in such a nasty way?

While it is sad that he died in such an awful way, keep in mind that he, himself could have easily prevented this.

Anyway, I think it's more so that he was too stubborn to ask for help, especially due to the dementia. Most elderly people don't like receiving help because they don't like to feel patronized.

[Malice In Wonderland]

Originally Posted by nis~sijai

While it is sad that he died in such an awful way, keep in mind that he, himself could have easily prevented this.

Anyway, I think it's more so that he was too stubborn to ask for help, especially due to the dementia. Most elderly people don't like receiving help because they don't like to feel patronized.

Sounds like my great nan.
We look after her because my dad's mum doesn't want to, but is quite happy to try and take all her money when she dies.
She's pretty clueless.

[HumanePain]

A year ago our local city put up on the ballot a vote to take over the electricity supplied by Southern California Edison because of the huge increases in costs and because the same company had been shutting off electricity during peak demands, which caused near death situations for some people who were dependent on electricity for health care (oxygen making equipment etc.).

The electric company spent 10 million dollars on advertising against the city take over and won.

Now, if a utility company can spend $10 million US on advertising to save their profits, but won't spend $1000 to save a man's life, doesn't anyone think that priorities are a little screwed up?

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

You do in most first world countries. America has you brainwashed to the point where you think that the government doesn't need to provide an old man heat on a freezing night. You really think that the government has no obligation to prevent this sort of thing?

And just why, exactly, should the government have to deal with a situation that no one bothered to inform them of?

Much like many Americans look at under-aged kids working in sweat shops in southern Asia and think, wow, thats wrong, while if you lived there is doesn't seem like a big thing - Europe looks at America the same way when we see stuff like this happening.

Right, because that kind of stuff never happens in Europe.

Oh, wait, it does. The only difference is that in Europe, it takes years to find the body.

The fact the government has no one to look out for the elderly, has no programmes to provide heat to those who can't afford it,

The fact that they do but you've conveniently forgotten about them, and the fact that someone needs to make those programs aware of situations...

the fact a man was allowed to die and now many people there blame the dead man,

The fact that people are also blaming the neighbors who suspected that something was wrong with the guy but did nothing...

well, it seems quite barbaric when your used to living a nation that is surrounded by other nations who passed laws decades ago to prevent this sort of thing.

And the funny thing is, all those nation took their cue from this nation. Another fact that you conveniently forgot.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

And just why, exactly, should the government have to deal with a situation that no one bothered to inform them of?

This is what it all really bils down too, if someone had been aware of his situation then there are many ways through which his power could have been provided at little to no cost to him if money was the issue or, and since he seemed to have the money in the end, automatic payments could have been set up if it was an issue of remembering to pay.

[Necrophagist]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

No it's not fucking tragic.
Sad, maybe--that's up to you.

It's definitely not fucking tragic when a 93 year old man dies and it's his own fault.
You cheapen tragedy by calling this tragic.

Lolwut.

Guys, lets put Ophelia in the Artic - just for fun

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Necrophagist

Lolwut.

Guys, lets put Ophelia in the Artic - just for fun

It's Arctic, jackass.
If you want to fuck with the eagles, learn to fly.


WOOOOOOOO.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

You do in most first world countries. America has you brainwashed to the point where you think that the government doesn't need to provide an old man heat on a freezing night. You really think that the government has no obligation to prevent this sort of thing?



So this doesn't fall under your definition of 'shelter'?

Much like many Americans look at under-aged kids working in sweat shops in southern Asia and think, wow, thats wrong, while if you lived there is doesn't seem like a big thing - Europe looks at America the same way when we see stuff like this happening.

The fact the government has no one to look out for the elderly, has no programmes to provide heat to those who can't afford it, the fact a man was allowed to die and now many people there blame the dead man, well, it seems quite barbaric when your used to living a nation that is surrounded by other nations who passed laws decades ago to prevent this sort of thing.

Yeah yeah, but this ISN'T fucking Ireland man. He didn't say the government SHOULDN'T give us heat for free, he said they don't. Fact, not opinions.

[CptSternn]

A follow up...

Freezing death of Mich. man in house sparks anger

http://tinyurl.com/cl7mk6



BAY CITY, Mich. – When neighbors went inside Marvin Schur's house, the windows were frosted over, icicles hung from a faucet, and the 93-year-old World War II veteran lay dead on the bedroom floor in a winter jacket over four layers of clothing.

He froze to death — slowly and painfully, authorities say — days after the electric company installed a power-limiting device because of more than $1,000 in unpaid bills.

The old man's sad end two weeks ago has led to outrage, soul-searching and a resolve never to let something like this happen again.

"There's got to be a way in today's computer age they can find out if someone's over a certain age," said Chad Sepos, 37, a copy machine installer who lives a block away in this Lake Huron city of 34,000 people, about 90 miles from Detroit. "It's just sad."

One of the saddest things of all was that Schur appeared to have plenty of money, and, in fact, one of the neighbors who entered the home reported seeing cash clipped to a pile of bills on the kitchen table. Schur's nephew suggested the old man's mind may have been slipping.

Schur, or "Mutts," was a retired foundry worker who lived alone, his wife having died a couple of years ago. The couple had no children. He could often be seen through the big front window of his comfortably furnished home of 50 or 60 years, watching TV or keeping an eye on his neighborhood.

On Jan. 13, a worker with the city-owned utility installed a "limiter" on Schur's electric meter after four months of unpaid bills. The device restricts power and blows like a fuse if usage rises past a set level. Electricity is not restored until the device is flipped back on by the homeowner, who must walk outside to the meter.

City Electric Light & Power did not contact Schur face-to-face to notify him of the device and explain how it works, instead following its usual policy by leaving a note on the door. But neighbors said Schur rarely, if ever, left the house in the cold.

At some point, the device evidently tripped and was not reset, authorities said. Schur's home was heated by a gas furnace, not electricity, but some gas furnaces do not work properly if the power is out.

Neighbors discovered Schur's body on Jan. 17 in his home, a yellow house with peeling paint. The outside temperature ranged from a high of 12 degrees to a low of minus 9 on Jan. 15, the day he was believed to have died. A heating pad was on his favorite armchair by the window. The oven door was open, perhaps to heat the place.

"The body has a tremendous fighting power for survival. He died a slow, painful death," said Dr. Kanu Virani, who found frostbite on Schur's foot when performing the autopsy. Investigators are trying to establish how long he was without electricity.

City officials are reviewing their procedures and in the meantime have suspended shutoffs and removed all limiters from homes after using the devices for 18 years.

The medical examiner is looking into whether Schur suffered from dementia, particularly after police found enough cash lying around in the home to cover his bills. His nephew William Walworth said Schur told him two years ago he had $600,000 in savings.

"It's definitely not a situation where money is an issue. The issue has to do with the mental faculties you have and your ability to make good decisions," said Walworth, 67, who lives in Ormond Beach, Fla.

"I think the utility's policies are horrible and insane," he added. "For 50 years he paid the bill on a regular basis and never had problems. If people would know who their customers are and take concern for their customers, maybe they'd go knock on the door and see if everything is OK."

Neighbors and others have posted messages on the Internet, complaining it was a shabby way to treat a veteran and demanding city employees be fired or prosecuted for not taking a few minutes to check on Schur, who was a medic in the South Pacific and earned a Purple Heart.

One blogger noted that even a pet owner who leaves his dog outside to freeze can face charges.

Sharon Gire, director of the Michigan Office of Services to the Aging, said Schur's death was preventable. "He was one of Michigan's most vulnerable citizens in need," she said. "It is a tragedy that he had to suffer such a painful death."

Michigan's big, state-regulated utilities are not allowed to shut off power to senior citizens in the winter and must offer payment plans to the poor. State regulators also discourage the use of limiters. But Michigan's 41 smaller municipal utilities — Bay City's included — are not overseen by the state.

Schur's death has prompted Michigan lawmakers to start writing legislation that could ban the use of limiters by municipal utilities.

"The concern was particularly with elderly customers; they can be frail or confused," Public Service Commission spokeswoman July Palnau said. "Anything that can require some sort of mechanical intervention can be overwhelming."

Bay City Manager Robert Belleman said that he was "deeply saddened" by Schur's death and that State Police will investigate. But he also said neighbors have a responsibility to each other.

"I've said this before and some of my colleagues have said this: Neighbors need to keep an eye on neighbors," Belleman said. "When they think there's something wrong, they should contact the appropriate agency or city department."