Who really writes the music

Rae Ven Rae · 07-23-2007, 02:34 PM

Does anyone remember Butch Walker? He used to be in a group called Marvelous Three -- he is good friends with the guy who produced my album, who learned that while Butch is credited as a co-writer for Avril Lavigne, in actuality, Butch wrote her ALL her material and gave her credits on it.

In other words -- she got credit for shit she didn't do...

This shocked me when I found this out, but the more I got into music, the more I realized so many people who are big in the industry expect you to hand over music and plaster their names on it -- they call it ghostwriting, and it happens in the publishing world too.

They pay you -- but it is NOTHING like the money they themselves will make on it...

This link talks more about it:

http://news.**********/s/ap/20070723...really_writing

My question:

Why can't these bastards write their own songs? If they can't write songs, then they need to just bill themselves as entertainers NOT songwriters (but in music, you make money ONLY when you writer-- performers only make performance royalties which amounts to crap...)

I mean -- the audacity of people! I bleed out my music my lyrics and my work and someone else comes in, takes the music and acts like it's theirs!!!!

And what pissed me off more about the crap were actual songwriters in the article who were saying things like, "Well that's just the way it is -- I did it to get ahead."

WTF???????

Screw that!

I am wearing a mood ring right now and it is an turning amber the color of anger....I just think it is time to stop basing music on if age or if someone looks like a friggin model and on REAL ability with something to say, based on real life experiences...

If it is merely about entertaining (dancing, singing, not writing) say that -- stop stealing people's works the jerk offs...

Hey, maybe this should go in rants...

Oh yeah--HEY GUYS!!!!

Rae Ven Rae · 07-23-2007, 03:13 PM

*pout* Man, my mood ring is still ticked off...

DeathChii · 07-23-2007, 03:16 PM

I hate how huge populations of musicians don't write their own songs >_> like wtf is the point of that!?

DeathChii · 07-23-2007, 03:18 PM

Especially when someone says "I love the song [insert song here] I love [this singer]" even though they didn't write the song... No one gives credit to the people who actually write them...

psyches_reflection · 07-23-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

Butch is credited as a co-writer for Avril Lavigne, in actuality, Butch wrote her ALL her material and gave her credits on it.

*scratches head* That's sort of what I'd expect from Her Royal Shiteness, Lady Lavigne.

I think it's just a sad fact of how the music industry works - there probably aren't enough talented musicians that qualify as being 'marketable', for whatever reason, to satisfy the greed of the industry. It is logical for them to grab some barely-talented but saleable youth and pay someone to do all the hard work for them, at a fraction of what they would receive if they were the performer. It's artistically abhorrent, but it makes perfect business sense.

And HELLO! Wondered where you'd gotten to

Tha Duckman · 07-23-2007, 03:31 PM

I fuckin' HATE people who don't write their own stuff. I can be sitting here working for literally YEARS on one song. I have a song that I made way back in '95 that still isn't finished because it's not right. They're talentless knobs and they have no right being in the business.

KontanKarite · 07-23-2007, 03:37 PM

I see this kind of thing in two lights. Though I doubt Aviril or whatever her name is, is of this school I think there are some artists out there who have vision and clarity, some good ideas. But their original stuff just doesn't cut the mustard. So you get people like directors and ghost writers to help them clarify and polish the music or whatever it is they're doing.

Essentially, some of the best story tellers make TERRIBLE writers.

Aviril is just processed products. She MIGHT have a half way decent singing voice, but she's not anything to write home about. Damn, I've got a half way decent singing voice for the love of god.

So I see the need for ghostwriters, but I also see a disposition to go too far with it in the industries.

Aaroneet · 07-23-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tha Duckman

I fuckin' HATE people who don't write their own stuff. I can be sitting here working for literally YEARS on one song. I have a song that I made way back in '95 that still isn't finished because it's not right. They're talentless knobs and they have no right being in the business.

Honestly, this took the words right out of my mouth. My biggest pet peeve is artists who don't write their own music. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that I write myself, even if I don't write songs. To me, sometimes the worst-written song you came up with entirely on your own can be better than the polished product resulting from someone else's labor that you claimed to be your own. If an artist isn't going to write his or her own music, he or she should at least own up to it and not pretend to be "the real deal".

Rae Ven Rae · 07-23-2007, 04:03 PM

I agree-- nothing wrong with being simply an entertainer or performer or hell, a singer who has CONCEPTS but doesn't write --- but claiming to be something they are not????

-- and yes--the greedy music industry that sued fifteen year olds for downloading music that, if they liked, show would have bought anyway, is the same SOB's who are stealing people's work and claiming it as their own...

Sad

I mean -- I may not be Bob Dylan -- but I write from the heart -- but for the industry that isn't good enough...

Bastards...

KontanKarite · 07-23-2007, 04:07 PM

You know, as sick as it sounds, I don't think I'd mind being a ghostwriter. The lime light isn't all that important.

I make my art, people see it, I get paid. Cool, the only stipulation is that people don't know it's mine.

I might be able to live with that. I think fame would be hard to deal with as an artist.

Rae Ven Rae · 07-23-2007, 04:16 PM

True --but the sad thing is -- they rip off the artist -- and someone who isn't talented at all gets acclaim for crap they didn't do --hell if I got a 100 dollars for a song and received credit I would prefer that to a million dollars so Brittany could sing my shit...

It's not the fame --it's the idea that people are getting credit and money and recognition for doing absolutely nothing...

besides-- even famous songwriters are not well known to the general public--example -- does anyone know that the lead singer of Concrete Blond wrote Christina Acquilera's BEAUTIFUL...

So getting credit for songwriting doesn't bring fame --being a performer does...

But a person should be recognized for the work that they do and not have other people taking credit for their work...

Circle V · 07-23-2007, 04:32 PM

On the other hand, some producers/songwriters are arguably more famous than the artists they collaborate with.

Rae Ven Rae · 07-23-2007, 04:42 PM

True, but on average, most writers, and esp those who don't produce, are generally unknown by the public --

KontanKarite · 07-23-2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

True, but on average, most writers, and esp those who don't produce, are generally unknown by the public --

And oddly enough, I don't feel a bit sorry for them. It's how they want to do things.

Hey, some people get paid to be liars and fakes. It's called acting.

No offense to those who can act. I don't have an acting bone in my body. Heh.

Rae Ven Rae · 07-23-2007, 07:07 PM

I'm not saying feel sorry about the anonymity --if I could perform underground and not be well known in the main stream, I'd prefer it --but please don't take credit for my hard work and pass it off as your own...all I'm saying...

KontanKarite · 07-23-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

I'm not saying feel sorry about the anonymity --if I could perform underground and not be well known in the main stream, I'd prefer it --but please don't take credit for my hard work and pass it off as your own...all I'm saying...

And no one would without your legal consent we would hope. Then again, there are some bloody criminals out there.

Rae Ven Rae · 07-23-2007, 07:18 PM

Yep -- like people who take loops from like say, a Queen song, and claim they are original...

*cough, cough* Vanilla Ice...lol

KontanKarite · 07-23-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

Yep -- like people who take loops from like say, a Queen song, and claim they are original...

*cough, cough* Vanilla Ice...lol

YYYYeeeaaahhh, but at the same time, are we complaining about people STEALING work or are we complaining about the lack of artistic authenticity of the industry? Are you complaining about theft of art or are you complaining about hundreds of RICH artistic minds coming together to produce an album and sell it to make money for the sake of MONEY and not art?

One of these, are almost okay, but they're both ugly as hell.

Now if you want to know a REAL piece of shit, look up Todd Goldman. That man needs to be dealt with in every way. He's made MILLIONS on stealing art.

Rae Ven Rae · 07-23-2007, 09:16 PM

Well -- if someone takes the work of an artist and claims they did it -- it is a form of stealing and I also think most people do it under duress, brainwashed thinking they can't make their dreams come true otherwise -- in other words, they sell their souls for a crust of bread and a warm bed...

I mean, if someone is starving to death , and a person says , I will give you food if you draw art work and let me put my name on it, that to me is a form of blackmail and duress -- a starving man will do anything to stay alive...

They know people are hungry to make it in the industry and just as some of those bastards make a girl perform sexual tricks for a chance at stardom they are royally fucking artists ****** them up the ba-hooty and saying "I am doing you a favor"...

Yes -- I call that stealing, contracts or no ....

PS--I don't care if artistic minds come together to make dance tripe or artless music -- I like some dance tripe -- so long as it's THEIR dance tripe and not the work of someone else they are ripping off and taking credit for ...

KontanKarite · 07-23-2007, 10:15 PM

May you ne'er go hungry, Rae.

I understand what you mean. It's a sad state indeed.

Rae Ven Rae · 07-23-2007, 10:50 PM

Thanks hun! ;-) *e-hugs!*

KontanKarite · 07-23-2007, 11:06 PM

*smiles warmly*

Tha Duckman · 07-24-2007, 05:40 AM

I'd shank a mother fucker if he stole my work, yo.

delicti · 07-27-2007, 08:54 AM

That's one of the better reasons to never be affiliated with pop music and the big 4. The industry has been doing this since the 50's (that we know of), and at least now they make a half-hearted attempt to put peoples' names in the liner notes.

Of course, if I wrote a song and Avril Lavigne nicked it, I'd probably let her have *all* the credit. No way I'd want people to think of her and I in any sort of affiliation.

TopHaggardDoll · 07-28-2007, 09:22 AM

LOL! delicti, That was well funny.

I'm very protective over my band's work and others work.

Unfortunately, a few years back, a member of my band tried to steal riffs from an Emperor song........what the hell!?.....EMPEROR! So many people know who they are! Then tried to steal lyrics from their song The Loss and Curse of Reverence.

Emperor's Lyrics: Honour. Commended no longer as virtue.
Yet, shalt be extolled by light's demise.

His Lyrics: Honour now, no virtue, nothing said is true...exalted by the demise of light.

His version of the lyrics barely make sense!

ARGH! as soon as I found out I made us drop the song. Stealing songs is just as bad getting fame for something you're not really doing. It shows that you lack talent and true passion for the music.
It's easy to stand there and look pretty and open your fat gob and pretend to sing, Avril Lavigne does sing...but she's terrible at it if you hear her live (which makes it worse, I think). Not so easy to take something from your own heart and project your emotions to an audience. I don't know how people can live with undeserved fame. I know i'd feel like one walking dirty lie

If you don't have musical talent, don't do music.

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