One Black Man Might Be President: One Million Black Men Are in Prison

[Godslayer Jillian]

I thought many of you would like this piece of text. I voted for Obama; I prefer him to McCain for practical reasons. But in ideals, which what most of my generation were spoonfed by the Democrats for Obama to win, he is worse than McCain.
All the hopes that have been attributed to his victory are making us complacent. Rather than trying to actively solve problems that directly affect us, most of us will passively wait with a big smile on our faces for the new Democrat office to co-opts the grassroots spirit while the world stays the same. As an example, since the campaigns I haven't seen any protests against the war in Iraq any longer. I think it was Infoshop who said that his slogan of "Yes we can!" chanted by millions around the country has become an implicit "Yes He can!"

Anyway, here's a text of a poster I enjoyed:

One Black Man Might Be President: One Million Black Men Are in Prison
OK, OK - so it's more like nine hundred thousand, if you don't count the ones on parole and probation, in institutions and juvenile detention centers, working minimum wage jobs or waiting in line at the welfare office, locked into homeless shelters or locked out on the streets. But now that Obama is on the Democratic ticket, we're supposed to forget about all that - America, land of opportunity!
Representative democracy is just like the free market economy, everyone supposedly gets a chance, but only a few come out on the top. If you don't win, you must have not tried hard enough! This is the same rationalization that our rulers used to justify the injustices of capitalism, sexism, and racism: look, you lazy bums, you could have been Bill Cosby or Hillary Clinton if you'd just worked harder.
The rest of us know the system is rigged to make us all losers. We deserve another world, another way of distributing power and resources that values everyone's needs equally. If someone has to be a failure, let it be the ones who aspire to world domination, whose triumphs make us feel small; if anyone must languish in prison, let it be the politicians who seek power at everyone else's expense. That would be some real Hope and Change.

[ThreeEyesOni]

So if I drum up the numbers of Caucasians in prison, what do I get to do? Shout "white power"?

"One Korean immigrant got a visa this week, but seventy-two million more are still in Korea. When will the injustice stop?"

Granted, a large contributing factor as to the number of black folk in prison is the system of inequality that only really started turning around 30 years ago. So? I would find it laughable to theorize that there are any more black folk unjustly in prison at this time then there are white folk unjustly in prison at this time.

You know what happens if you break the law and get caught? You go to jail. "But Oni" you say, "when is the last time you heard about a suburban white youth going to jail for 5 years for car theft?" My response is "When is the last time you read about such a situation, and what was the legal result?"

For starters you have to realize that the african-american population of the US is generally focused in low-income urban areas, aka the places that crime (and punishment) is generally the worst in the entire country. I don't think that even the "black" aspect is a reason here, it's simply that there are a hell of a lot more black folk living in those "high risk" areas then there are in "low risk" ones. The fact that 50+ years ago these areas were shafted by the government and society doesn't change the fact that now they are breaking the law.

You don't get a free ride from car theft, drug dealing, breaking and entering, shoplifting or serial killing just because your neighborhood sucks. Hell, even "daddy touched me in my no-no spot" is only an excuse for an insanity plea. You certainly don't get a free pass simply because other individuals of your skin shade are pissed about the government.

These folks, like every other person in the country, are entitled to competent legal defense and recourse. Past that, you get nothing, IMO.

[HumanePain]

ThreeEyesOni is right because if you look at other nations such as Benin for example, the general populace is poor, yet the percentage of criminals is far less as in the U.S. so it isn't the differential between haves and have nots that needs to be fixed, criminals are criminals regardless of the economics.

In Benin, if the majority of the population can obey the local laws even though they are poor, then the same should be expected in the U.S. The only difference is the U.S. defense lawyers are more creative in finding excuses for failure to be a responsible citizen, more creative in finding a way to avoid accountability.

Interesting reference:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita

[Sir. Helpmann]

The rate at which Blacks commit murder is thirteen times that of Whites; **** and assault, ten times. These figures, as given by the F.B.I. reports, vary somewhat from year to year but fairly represent the trend for the past decade.

Though only 12% of the U.S. population, Blacks commit more than half of all rapes and robberies and 60% of all murders in the U.S.

[Slap Your Love]

I have to agree with the poster and sir. helpmann.

[Necrophagist]

Sir Helpmann - have you ever asked why?

[ThreeEyesOni]

I'm not Sir Helpmann, but I have an answer:

The answer is irrelevant in regards to the people commiting the crime. It really doesn't matter how shitty your house is and/or how badly your ancestors were treated; you still don't go around committing felonies. It just doesn't matter; barring psychological illness or extreme situations, none of that is an excuse.

A lot of the contributing factos can and should be looked into and altered as possible; if 15 guys rob a store in a month because their family is starving, then you need to get food pantries and Food Stamps in higher level. If people are getting mugged by drug addicts, then you need to get tougher on the dealers. None of that is an excuse for the crimes or something to alter the results; it's just something a healthy society needs to do.

[MegearaErotica]

Originally Posted by Necrophagist

Sir Helpmann - have you ever asked why?

Perhaps more black people feel that their government owes them something in compensation for their lifestyles and that they shouldn't have to work for the good life. This is just speculation based on what I've heard black people saying about the government while at school though.

[Despanan]

You know Jillian, you can be a real wet blanket sometimes.

[KontanKarite]

I'll wet your...

Wait; is that too soon?

[Despanan]

It's never too soon. Now return my phone call.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by ThreeEyesOni

I would find it laughable to theorize that there are any more black folk unjustly in prison at this time then there are white folk unjustly in prison at this time.

I find it laughable that everyone above kept talking about prisons when that was barely the title. The poster didn't even focus on that; no comments on the substance of it?

[Despanan]

Honestly dude, Sounds to me like your guy is just whining his ass off. "Boo-hoo, things aren't perfect! let's tear down the entire system and replace it with something else!" Someone needs to call the whaambulance on that guy. Like it or not, Obama was a step in the right direction, politically and symbolically. There's not many countries which can say they practice what they preach, and America has been having issues with that lately. Well at least once, the American people managed to reject fear and racism and take one shining example of the American dream, and make him our leader.

It may not be perfect, and we certainly have alot of work to do, but goddammit that's something.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Tell me something, which do you believe is more correct:

Obama is the best thing to happen to the United States and all will be fine and dany in America by February. Racism will end, sexism will end, and people will stop being poor. We'll have universal health care and we'll have no more wars and we'll be loved by the rest of the world again.

Obama has done nothing and will do nothing. The only thing that has been accomplished is making people trust the same government they hated yesterday, and real organizations and movements that wanted change now lose their legitimacy thanks to Obama's slogan.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Sexual deviant?

-or-

Magic picture that if you stare at it long enough, you see something?

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Tell me something, which do you believe is more correct:

Obama is the best thing to happen to the United States and all will be fine and dany in America by February. Racism will end, sexism will end, and people will stop being poor. We'll have universal health care and we'll have no more wars and we'll be loved by the rest of the world again.

Obama has done nothing and will do nothing. The only thing that has been accomplished is making people trust the same government they hated yesterday, and real organizations and movements that wanted change now lose their legitimacy thanks to Obama's slogan.

You play the cynic to the point of saturation. If you go into something with the expectation of being let down, whatever happens will be better than what you had planned on. It's a simple, childish, and cowardly tactic. Analysis is called for, not unthinking, unmitigated pessimism.

Obama, contrary to popular perception, is not a panacea for all the nation's ills, but his election can certainly be seen as evidence of a shift in popular opinion. It would not have been possible 50 years ago, and that does indicate a substantial change in how Americans view their fellow Americans.

He may not be successful in changing the government, but refusing to even admit the possibility is effectively saying you're so scared of failure that you're not even willing to try. That is tantamount to out-and-out cowardice.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Originally Posted by MegearaErotica

Perhaps more black people feel that their government owes them something in compensation for their lifestyles and that they shouldn't have to work for the good life. This is just speculation based on what I've heard black people saying about the government while at school though.

I've heard that argument as well. It's lazy and greedy, but it is by no means a racial characteristic. It's just a quick way for some leeches of one particular segment of the American population to latch on to a vein. Save for the surface details, ie the racial component, it's no different than any other hare-brained get rich quick scheme.

[AshtrayKitten]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Obama has done nothing and will do nothing. The only thing that has been accomplished is making people trust the same government they hated yesterday, and real organizations and movements that wanted change now lose their legitimacy thanks to Obama's slogan.

Precisely, and that's the goal. Any effective two-party system will encompass all political views and qualms while representing none. Obama became the only alternative to 4 more years of Bush, even though there isn't that much difference between them. But him being around and spouting his drivel about change ensured people went through the 'proper channels' and voted as they were supposed to.

The problem is the government, and expecting it to fix itself merely by selecting the right candidate demonstrates the naivete of the American people. Let's keep in mind that this is the same American public that utterly failed when it came to stopping Bush.

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

I've heard that argument as well. It's lazy and greedy, but it is by no means a racial characteristic. It's just a quick way for some leeches of one particular segment of the American population to latch on to a vein. Save for the surface details, ie the racial component, it's no different than any other hare-brained get rich quick scheme.

What financial motivations could be behind r4p3 and murder, pastimes which blacks still earn the gold medal in?

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Originally Posted by AshtrayKitten

What financial motivations could be behind r4p3 and murder, pastimes which blacks still earn the gold medal in?

Did you even read the post I was responding to? It doesn't seem like you did. I was not addressing crime in the lower class.

Further, are you implying that different races have different impulses based on skin color, rather than social and economic climate?

[AshtrayKitten]

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

Did you even read the post I was responding to? It doesn't seem like you did. I was not addressing crime in the lower class.

SORRY!

Further, are you implying that different races have different impulses based on skin color, rather than social and economic climate?

No, I'm openly saying that different races have difference impulses based on inherent physiological differences that run deeper than skin color.

[ThreeEyesOni]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

I find it laughable that everyone above kept talking about prisons when that was barely the title. The poster didn't even focus on that; no comments on the substance of it?

Do you honestly even listen to yourself sometimes? I'm not trying to be rude for the sake of rude, but are you even aware of how many times people asking "choices" like "which is closer, to being Ted the Mailman: 'Magical Unicorn From Mars' or 'A Man, just like the one that beat up my Mother'?" You make comments that are ludicrous to the point where I have a hard time forming a response because I'm too busy laughing and figuring out if you are serious or not.

People are talking about prisons because you brought up black people in prisons and gave a specific number of them. Then you spin off from that (well, not even you apparently but someone else) as to how that is evidence of racism, bigotry and who knows what else. People have made responses based on that, and many of the responses have been using logic to point out that there are many other reasons for that number of prisoners as well as how it doesn't necessarily relate to the issue as a whole.

When the title of the damn thread is "One Million Black Men Are in Prison", don't be too suprised when you get the response of "So? What is your fucking point?" And as I've seen from... well, just about everyone one of these threads you've started, if you want to be making bullshit comments like "where are the legitimate response to my thread" then you might want to start making some of your own and drop the asinine "choose A or B" nonsense.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Originally Posted by AshtrayKitten

No, I'm openly saying that different races have difference impulses based on inherent physiological differences that run deeper than skin color.

Physiological differences? Are you serious? Do black people have their organs in different places, or something? You fucking moron.

What's next, are you going to tell me that malaria is caused by swamp miasma? Are you going to start spouting phrenological explanations for why a plumber is a plumber? Honestly, get the fuck out of here. I love reading about the 19th century, but we've moved forward some. Correction, most of us have moved forward some.

[Saya]

Science and anthropology certainly have moved forward. I think I've sung the "race is a social construct" song enough times already, and I know this guy is an idiot, but I really hate that people who say there are physiological and genetic reasons for unsavory behavior in races are so very very ignorant of anthropology.

http://racerelations.about.com/od/sk...lconstruct.htm

I really liked the quote from that article, "Only in America can a white woman have a black baby but a black woman cannot have a white baby." We arbitrarily pick out insignificant differences between groups and call it "race". Those differences are only a product of isolated genetic pools (those are getting fewer and fewer) and small adaptations to different enviroments, meanwhile inside those "races" there are more genetic differences than between two different races. Its mind numblingly stupid to say that just because someone inherited a genetic trait for dark skin that makes them somehow more aggressive.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by ThreeEyesOni

if you want to be making bullshit comments like "where are the legitimate response to my thread" then you might want to start making some of your own and drop the asinine "choose A or B" nonsense.

Drop the A or B nonsense....
That I wrote much later than your posts?
To an advance by someone who has the same opinions of Obama than me?

How does that excuse you?

[AshtrayKitten]

I can't find the place where I'm supposed to add a signature, so I'll stamp my post with this line:

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

Physiological differences? Are you serious? Do black people have their organs in different places, or something? You fucking moron.

What's next, are you going to tell me that malaria is caused by swamp miasma? Are you going to start spouting phrenological explanations for why a plumber is a plumber? Honestly, get the fuck out of here. I love reading about the 19th century, but we've moved forward some. Correction, most of us have moved forward some.

Ashkenazi Jews are more likely to develop Tay-Sachs than other ethnicities. African-American women face a greater threat of death from heart disease than women of other races. Whites are more likely to have Cystic Fibrosis. There is no logical reason to insist that differences between races must stop at outward appearance. It's been long-established scientific fact that they exist.

Whether or not they succeed in explaining why there are more blacks in prison than whites is irrelevant (though I happen to believe they do, to a degree). They are there.

Originally Posted by Saya

Science and anthropology certainly have moved forward. I think I've sung the "race is a social construct" song enough times already, and I know this guy is an idiot, but I really hate that people who say there are physiological and genetic reasons for unsavory behavior in races are so very very ignorant of anthropology.

Rejecting anything simply because it doesn't conform to a whimsical view of the world is always ignorant, including nature and nurture.

Here is a better link than yours.

physorg
com
/news127914924.html

About 40 percent of African-Americans have a genetic variant that can protect them after heart failure and prolong their lives, according to research conducted at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis and collaborating institutions.

There's a plethora of such differences.

Its mind numblingly stupid to say that just because someone inherited a genetic trait for dark skin that makes them somehow more aggressive.

Indeed it is ignorant to focus on that one aspect of a person, instead of taking into account the genetic variations responsible for aggression that might accompany that trait.