So, when did Lady Gaga decide her influences were...

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by sibyl vane.

There are many, many, many remarkable bands that seem to have slipped by your radar.

And you are purposely being very, very, very vague.

Originally Posted by sibyl vane.

you're arguing for something else now. You're saying that the 00s have not had one definitive style, and I can agree with that -- it's because music has exploded in such a big way. It's not necessarily a bad thing.

Nope. You're missing the fundamental point of what I said. I didn't say that each prior decade had a definitive style, I said each prior decade gave birth to distinctive styles. I used the plural for a reason (there was punk and heavy metal in the 70s for example). So the problem isn’t that the 00s don’t have one definitive style (coz lets face it, if it did it would be horrid) it’s that it doesn’t have any truly distinctive styles.

Almost everything I’ve heard has been genericized lightweight versions of music taken from other decades, mostly the 80s and 90s. Is some of good? Probably, but is it as good as the source material? Almost never.

[sibyl vane.]

In that case, I can't be bothered arguing with somebody who's so stubbornly wrong. It sounds like you've got all of your music from mainstream radio. I won't embarrass you.

Instead, use your Internet connection and find some good 00s music. Hey, I'll even start you off with a few of my favourites -- Arcade Fire, Imogen Heap, Amanda Palmer, Mew, and Brand New. Have fun.

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by sibyl vane.

In that case, I can't be bothered arguing with somebody who's so stubbornly wrong. It sounds like you've got all of your music from mainstream radio.

If you want to be bow out then be my guest but calling our dialogue an argument or discussion is a bit farfetched. The only thing you’ve done is repeatedly suggest that I’m wrong, all the while failing to present tangible evidence to support yourself.

[sibyl vane.]

Um, I just did provide evidence. I'm being nice about this, so don't be a twat.

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by sibyl vane.

Um, I just did provide evidence. I'm being nice about this, so don't be a twat.

Oh, and there was I thinking that I was being the nice one by not commenting on your recommendations…

[sibyl vane.]

What's wrong with them? Those are all talented bands and musicians, whether or not they're to your particular taste.

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by sibyl vane.

What's wrong with them? Those are all talented bands and musicians, whether or not they're to your particular taste.

This conversation really isn’t about who likes what because arguing that one person’s taste is superior to another’s is pretty difficult. That’s why the only thing I’m trying to prove here is that 00s music is, by and large, less original and hence less remarkable than most of what went before. Do copycats and emulators sometimes come up with pretty cool stuff? Sure, but showering them with praise and laurels is bit farcical.

Another thing to note is that this isn’t a question of talent. The ability to play a guitar like Jimmi Hendrix or Frank Zappa is not in itself particularly interesting (at least not to me). It is a mechanical activity. It’s the imagination that goes into crafting new soundscapes that is significant.

Since you asked: none of the stuff you recommended to me seemed too bad, it was just kinda predictable to be honest. There was the cutesy female singer/songwriter and various soft rock bands with progressive rock influences and really annoying whiney voices. It was all rather tame but perhaps some of it does deserve a second listening

[Unknown_Kadath]

If I may interject, Doppleganger, I think you're thinking under the assumption that bands from previous decades had no influences. Which is simply untrue. Granted, they didn't have the sprawling music-scape that we do now to contend with, as every person alive as now heard music from all of these styles, and there is bound to be some over-lapping styles and obvious influences. If we argue from your perspective then we should simple disregard everything that has been produced sense the fifties, or maybe even forties, as blatant 'copycats and emulators' as you said. And if you want some bands that do have wholly original bones in their bodies, let me help you:

Animal Collective: Their style could be compared to others, but their lyrics are truly brilliant, they sing about pandas because pandas are awesome things to sing about without any of the pretension that seems to come with a lot of other bands.

Xploding Plastix: Acid jazz at it's finest, without a single influence as far as I can hear.

Murder By Death: To be honest, you could very well compare Murder By Death to other current bands, but their style, combined with the way they tell their stories, is truly original to me.

I think thats enough, go listen to some of them and get back to me, I'm sure you'll find atleast one song of theirs you like and is, as you said, remarkable.

[sibyl vane.]

Then there was no need to be so abrasive, then, was there?

The fact that you apparently hadn't heard of any of those bands before I mentioned them indicates that you are, in fact, ignorant about this decade's music, as some of them are pretty well-known and acclaimed. So how can you claim most of the 00s music is crappy and unoriginal when you don't seem to be really in touch with the 00s at all?

Those are just a couple of my favourites that I recommended since I have no real idea what stuff you like. There could be a whole plethora of bands you might love but haven't listened to yet, just because you don't know your shit.

Also, the whole "unoriginal" thing--hate to break it to ya, but no art is original.

EDIT: Poster above beat me to it, and also mentioned a bunch of other bands I love and should've thought of.

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by Unknown_Kadath

If I may interject, Doppleganger, I think you're thinking under the assumption that bands from previous decades had no influences. Which is simply untrue. Granted, they didn't have the sprawling music-scape that we do now to contend with, as every person alive as now heard music from all of these styles, and there is bound to be some over-lapping styles and obvious influences. If we argue from your perspective then we should simple disregard everything that has been produced sense the fifties, or maybe even forties, as blatant 'copycats and emulators' as you said.

No, I think if we were going to talk about this genetically then we’d have to go quite a lot further back. Purcell, Bach, Mozart etc. The question then should be - is music always getting worse?? After all there are only so many notes on the scale that are distinguishable to human ears. I reckon that the answer to this can be found by examining the emergence of music technologies.

Is the organ better than the harpsichord and is the harpsichord better than the piano and is the piano better than the synthesizer?? I suspect most reasonable people would say no; they are just different. And therein lies the problem, we have been fucking around with the same set of instruments for too long! Almost everything that can be done with the bass/drums/guitar combo has already been done and redone, the same can be said of analog synthesizers and drum machines (how many different snares are there exactly?!). But people these days are content, no scratch that, people these days love to hear more of the same, they cry out to see artsy men in their mid twenties do the same old guitar thing with the band’s patent angst or joy or whatever. This why I strongly suspect that it’ll be the computer programmers and tech-heads that finally wrench us free from this horrible inertia and not these run of the mill guitar bands that saturate the market. Things are worse again in the pop industry. But at least we’re able to have a bit of a laugh at the Christina Aguileras and Britney Spears, the Avril Lavignes and Lady Gagas. It must be clear to even the most naive of people that these manufactured acts don’t even compose their own music and while this was symptomatic of the 90s too, I can’t help but feel it reached its revolting apex in the 00s.

But what about the electronic acts you ask me? I confess that I am deeply suspicious that there are truly avant-garde electronic acts out there that I just haven’t heard yet, but what I have heard has its roots in the 90s and not the 00s. Many of them are still pretty cool though. Anyway, I can't claim to be knowledgeable enough to answer your question exhaustively but if you have more questions about my position then just ask and we'll iron out the details.


As for your recommendations. Thanks. I'll check them out when I have little time.

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by sibyl vane.

Then there was no need to be so abrasive, then, was there?

I am being direct not abrasive. You'll note that I haven't taken any cheap-shots at you in the course of our conversation.

Originally Posted by sibyl vane.

Also, the whole "unoriginal" thing--hate to break it to ya, but no art is original.

Actually there is no such thing as art at all. But that’s for another thread. I may start one.

[Solumina]

I'm rather shocked that someone who hasn't heard of Arcade Fire, Imogen Heap, Amanda Palmer, Mew, or Brand New is commenting on the faults of the current music scene as I honestly listen to very little new music yet I am quite aware of all of them, it isn't as though they are obscure artists that you need to scour the internet to find.


As for there being no such thing as art I'm rather confused, if you would like to create another thread I would be quite interested to hear how you back this claim.

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by D0PPLEGANGER

A word on Videogames: although most of my favourite games are definitely from the early to mid-nineties I’d be a fool to say there hadn’t been massive developments of a kind since then. I do find that games from the last ten years or so usually have a tendency to be too easy or too cinematic (games are not movies) and there also seems to be an over saturation of JRPGs on the market.

Who says games cant be movies? Look at the call of duty series. From the very begining it has been an amazing series, with great cinematics, that have only gotten better with each one and continues to set the bar on FPS. Then there is KotoR an amazing game with great cinematics that set the bar for regular RPGs, as well as games with suspenseful plots.

The reason why you think there is an oversaturation of JRPGs on the market is because Japan seems to make more RPGs than any other genre, which creates the illusion of oversaturation. Personally I'm not a fan of JRPGs.

Originally Posted by D0PPLEGANGER

This why I strongly suspect that it’ll be the computer programmers and tech-heads that finally wrench us free from this horrible inertia and not these run of the mill guitar bands that saturate the market.

You do know that the audio editing software that the music industry uses and has relied on for this entire decade did not program itself right?

[LakitaJackson]

Originally Posted by D0PPLEGANGER

Please. The 2000s have been an appalling decade for music culture. What are people going to remember from this decade? The auto tune voice effect?! The bastardization of songs from the eighties?? Shitty indie bands with one recognisable song?? Even hip-hop, which was always pretty retarded has reached new levels of degradation.

Pop-culture is not the only source of music. Fuckwit.

[Still Jack]

Doppleganger is a twat, he has a "Kha0ss!!11!!!!" symbol as his avatar. I think that proves my point somewhat abundantly.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by D0PPLEGANGER

And therein lies the problem, we have been fucking around with the same set of instruments for too long! Almost everything that can be done with the bass/drums/guitar combo has already been done and redone, the same can be said of analog synthesizers and drum machines (how many different snares are there exactly?!). But people these days are content, no scratch that, people these days love to hear more of the same, they cry out to see artsy men in their mid twenties do the same old guitar thing with the band’s patent angst or joy or whatever.

You are such a fucking dumbass it makes me cry.

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by Solumina

I'm rather shocked that someone who hasn't heard of Arcade Fire, Imogen Heap, Amanda Palmer, Mew, or Brand New is commenting on the faults of the current music scene as I honestly listen to very little new music yet I am quite aware of all of them, it isn't as though they are obscure artists that you need to scour the internet to find.

I knew of Arcade Fire of course. But as for the others. Not only had I never heard of them, I solemnly wish that I had never heard of them.

Originally Posted by Solumina

for there being no such thing as art I'm rather confused, if you would like to create another thread I would be quite interested to hear how you back this claim.

I'd like to, but to be honest I'm not sure it would be possible in this forum. At least half the regular posters here seem to be unapologetic retards. It'd just get flamed.

[JCC]

I'm going to bite the bullet: what music do you like?

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by Renatus

Who says games cant be movies? Look at the call of duty series. From the very begining it has been an amazing series, with great cinematics, that have only gotten better with each one and continues to set the bar on FPS.

When I said cinematic I was thinking more about the obnoxiously long cut scenes you find in some of the Metal Gear Solids etc. I definitely wasn’t talking about FPSs. I didn’t really explain it all that thoroughly coz the main discussion here is about music. Besides I have no real gripe with the video game market.

Originally Posted by Renatus

You do know that the audio editing software that the music industry uses and has relied on for this entire decade did not program itself right?

Yep. But what I’m waiting for is new technologies or new ways of using old technologies. Or just anything new really…

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by Still Jack

Doppleganger is a twat, he has a "Kha0ss!!11!!!!" symbol as his avatar. I think that proves my point somewhat abundantly.

You are a ginger boy. You take photos of yourself smoking cigarettes and holding cans of beer to look cool. Go away.

[honeythorn]

Originally Posted by D0PPLEGANGER

we have been fucking around with the same set of instruments for too long! Almost everything that can be done with the bass/drums/guitar combo has already been done and redone, the same can be said of analog synthesizers and drum machines (how many different snares are there exactly?!).

Somebody hasn't been listening to enough Dead Can Dance I see. They use a vast array of instruments from many cultures in their music to beautiful effect.

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by JCC

You are such a fucking dumbass it makes me cry.

If you’re gonna substitute reasoned arguments for petty insults in every post you make to me then I’d advice you to at least try and make them a little witty. Otherwise it’s kind of pointless.

[JCC]

Dead Can Dance weren't 2000s.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by D0PPLEGANGER

If you’re gonna substitute reasoned arguments for petty insults in every post you make to me then I’d advice you to at least try and make them a little witty. Otherwise it’s kind of pointless.

What reasoned argument is there to make? None of the artists that sibyl vane listed use a conventional rock band setup and then you reply by saying that we're using the same setup in all of our music and held a little funeral for originality. You're purposefully ignorant, and that makes you a fucking dumbass.

[D0PPLEGANGER]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

Somebody hasn't been listening to enough Dead Can Dance I see. They use a vast array of instruments from many cultures in their music to beautiful effect.

Dead Can Dance are an 80s band. This thread is about whether or not there are any bands from the 00s that could be called pioneering in any meaningful way.