Hard to make a living.

[Amunet]

Originally Posted by Saya

No, anecdotal information does not make her a sociologist about lower class people.

And she doesn't know what lower class means.

yes I do. I've lived it.

[Daywalker]

Originally Posted by Saya

No, anecdotal information does not make her a sociologist about lower class people.

And she doesn't know what lower class means.

There is no one right meaning for lower class but she is in the ball park just not on home base.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Amunet

yes I do. I've lived it.

I and billions of others are living it now, and you are way off.

There is no one right meaning for lower class but she is in the ball park just not on home base.

No she's not. Here, let me google this for you.

[MissCheyenne]

Originally Posted by Amunet

Lower class are the people sitting on their asses popping out children and getting welfare, and all the help they can get from the state.
Then they use their money on heroin and crack, and don't support their children,

You've lived it, so you've been this person right?

[Pineapple_Juice]

Originally Posted by Amunet

I'm sorry Despanan, I have to disagree with you there.
Lower class are the people sitting on their asses popping out children and getting welfare, and all the help they can get from the state.
Then they use their money on heroin and crack, and don't support their children, and they're using my tax dollars to do it, but when I a "lower-middle class" person, needs assistance with health care, or any kind of help at all, I don't qualify because on "paper" I make too much, without them giving a crap about what I pay out to what I take in. Normally, I don't bitch about it because I LIKE to work for what I have, but Lower class has the benefit of assistance from hard working people like myself and others.

I'm not saying every situation is like this, But I sure as hell know a LOT of people personally who are doing exactly this.
Middle class is suffering more than ANYONE else at this point and time.
I don't know what your living conditions are, but I know what mine are. I see the proof every day.

That's hilarious, 'cause I;m lower class. I don't have any children, I don't sit on my ass, and I don't collect welfare. I'm not even on Medi-Cal. This guy has enough money for himself and his kids, minimal as it is. He has a place to live. He works ONE job. At any given time I work two to three jobs and I can't even support myself. You middle classers are whiny bitches, and I entreat you all to shut the fuck up.

[Methadrine]

Originally Posted by Amunet

Lower class to me= poor, homeless, usually on welfare, WIC, EBT(food stamps), usually junkies, people who have given up trying, or who were brought into this world that way and continue this path, lazy, OCCASIONALLY people end up here due to circumstances beyond their control.

Middle class to me- paycheck to paycheck, barely making ends meet, generally in debt, trying, working generally way more than 40 hours a week

Allright. How can someone who has a job (i.e paycheck), a house, usually a car (which ofcourse adds to debts. Luxury costs.), and a working social network (due to the job they got) have it harder than someone who has no money, no home, no car, no social network to gain other jobs from...?

[Pineapple_Juice]

Furthermore, I think it's funny that these middle class people whine about how they pay to support poor people with taxes and welfare and such. Like lower class income people don't have to do the same goddamn thing.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Amunet

I am not wrong on all accounts here in AMERICA Jcc. Come live here and find out for yourself.

Don't tell someone how things are until you've lived it and experienced it yourself. You couldn't possibly understand otherwise.
Some things your studies can't teach you. They are what they are in most cases, go see for yourself if you don't believe me.

Yeah, that's right, I, living in a welfare state, don't understand that over in AMERICA, the poor receive benefits and don't work and take taxpayers' money. You are such a fucking dumbass.

[Amunet]

You've lived it, so you've been this person right?

No, I was a fucking Kid in this shit. But I grew up and worked for my way in life!


QUOTE METH:
Allright. How can someone who has a job (i.e paycheck), a house, usually a car (which ofcourse adds to debts. Luxury costs.), and a working social network (due to the job they got) have it harder than someone who has no money, no home, no car, no social network to gain other jobs from...? End QUOTE

Easy. Because THEY WORK FOR IT. Most people qualified as lower CLASS live off of welfare, they don't work because they choose not to, there is maybe a handful of people that I could tell you I've met that are qualified as lower class because of extenuating circumstances, but they make their way and try their best to work hard therefor putting them above lower class.

AS for PJ, I'm sorry if you work 3 jobs, in my book you are considered the working class (middle class) You're working hard to make ends meet so I do not group you in with people living off the fucking government.

There is a distinction people.

You work hard in this country and usually you are stuck struggling for the rest of your life unless somehow you get a break. Then you live comfortably.
Or you sit on your lazy ass and do nothing and expect everyone else to take care of you.

Prime example.... Man who works at my company, great guy always providing for his family, 85 YEARS old.... Literally worked 50 hours a week and died just before coming into work one morning.

Tell me that's not fucking bullshit. But he had to provide for his wife, for his kids who needed his help... blah blah.

ugh

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Amunet

AS for PJ, I'm sorry if you work 3 jobs, in my book you are considered the working class (middle class) You're working hard to make ends meet so I do not group you in with people living off the fucking government.

There is a distinction people.

Shit, this is going to get us on something awful again.

And I googled it for you and you still don't know what lower class means?

[Daywalker]

Originally Posted by JCC

Yeah, that's right, I, living in a welfare state, don't understand that over in AMERICA, the poor receive benefits and don't work and take taxpayers' money. You are such a fucking dumbass.

Evey thing you do use taxpayers money even if do you work.

[MissCheyenne]

I'm sorry but not everyone who lives on benefits, whatever country they may be in, is just a low life who can't be bothered to work. I WANT to work, I want to support myself, I want to have a job and security and be like everyone else. I'm not lazy, popping out kids every nine months or addicted to drugs. I'm ill, therefore I was signed off as too sick to work. Am I to be counted as someone who just can't be bothered and is happy leeching off tax payers money?

[JCC]

No wonder you're so disaffected with politics Amunet, keeping up with facts and actually understanding things appears to be quite a challenge for you.

[Pineapple_Juice]

It's not about how hard a person works to make a living. A lot of really wealthy people just inhereted their money and they didn't do shit to deserve it. Does that make Paris Hilton lower class?
NO, it does not.

[Amunet]

Originally Posted by MissCheyenne

I'm sorry but not everyone who lives on benefits, whatever country they may be in, is just a low life who can't be bothered to work. I WANT to work, I want to support myself, I want to have a job and security and be like everyone else. I'm not lazy, popping out kids every nine months or addicted to drugs. I'm ill, therefore I was signed off as too sick to work. Am I to be counted as someone who just can't be bothered and is happy leeching off tax payers money?

sure then you have circumstances that are making you unable to work. That doesn't make you a leech. people who live off of welfare with no ambition to actually work for anything, thats who im talking about.

Sorry if you don't agree folks, I understand perfectly well how it works. your fucking books and whatever it is that you think you know doesn't mean anything until you live in it.

My whole point is that middle class working individuals are having a harder time surviving, because its up to them to generate their income, they can't rely on a government fall back plan.

End. bicker amongst yourselves

[Daywalker]

[quote=Pineapple_Juice;604511]It's not about how hard a person works to make a living. A lot of really wealthy people just inhereted their money and they didn't do shit to deserve it. Does that make Paris Hilton lower class?
NO, it does not.
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYees she is lower class of a human. I know 5 year old. That have done more in there life then she will ever do.

[Mir]

Originally Posted by Amunet

I'm sorry Despanan, I have to disagree with you there.
Lower class are the people sitting on their asses popping out children and getting welfare, and all the help they can get from the state.
Then they use their money on heroin and crack, and don't support their children, and they're using my tax dollars to do it, but when I a "lower-middle class" person, needs assistance with health care, or any kind of help at all, I don't qualify because on "paper" I make too much, without them giving a crap about what I pay out to what I take in. Normally, I don't bitch about it because I LIKE to work for what I have, but Lower class has the benefit of assistance from hard working people like myself and others.

I'm not saying every situation is like this, But I sure as hell know a LOT of people personally who are doing exactly this.
Middle class is suffering more than ANYONE else at this point and time.
I don't know what your living conditions are, but I know what mine are. I see the proof every day.

Wow! That sounds exactly like something xjin might say.

[MissCheyenne]

Originally Posted by Mir

Wow! That sounds exactly like something xjin might say.

I thought exactly the same thing

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Amunet

Sorry if you don't agree folks, I understand perfectly well how it works. your fucking books and whatever it is that you think you know doesn't mean anything until you live in it.

Why are you assuming that you're the one only one who's lived it? You've got people here TELLING you that they are lower class. When I was younger my dad was in his late 50s and working two jobs, my mother was working too and they still used to cry in the kitchen because they couldn't pay the bills; the only reason we aren't lower class now is because we inherited some land and sold it, so fuck your life experience and fuck your stupid, outdated mantra of work = reward. If you died, the world would be better for having lost another self-righteous misinformed idiot.

[Amunet]

Sorry I'm Talking about people who DIDNT TRY, WHO DONT TRY and GET EVERYTHING FOR IT. SO you cut out your self righteous bullshit and figure out what it is that I"M ACTUALLY SAYING!

jesus fucking christ. I am so done with you fucking people. All you ever do is bitch and moan about everything, you fight when its unnecessary, just to claim superior intelligence.

Sorry. Telling people to die is neither intelligent, or something a good person would ever wish on someone else.

Back to the OP.

Working and living the right way is a difficult, but admirable path to take, so I'm glad that you are trying to provide for your children even though it's hard.
Hopefully business picks up for you soon.

Everyone else?

Adios!

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Amunet

Sorry I'm Talking about people who DIDNT TRY, WHO DONT TRY and GET EVERYTHING FOR IT. SO you cut out your self righteous bullshit and figure out what it is that I"M ACTUALLY SAYING!

And who are they? Those people don't exist, they're convenient apparitions you dreamed up to blame for the problems you don't understand. You can't pay the bills because of the leeches, the poor people with their hands in your back pocket. The country is running at a deficit because it's taking care of the leeches, the poor people with their hands in your back pocket. Social medicine won't work because of the leeches, the poor people with their hands in your back pocket. They're just the new n.igger, the new kike, the new paki, the new spic, an appeal to worthless emotional reactions that wraps all problems into a neat little bundle so that you can make scapegoats of the people feeling the strain the most.

[honeythorn]

I fully accept that I'm working class, I have no problem with it, but I do have a problem with your definition of it Amunet.

Now I am absoultely not in any way shape or form middle class. I live in a council house on a council estate in a working class area. I went to a basic local comprehensive and college. I work in a warehouse full time. I may not be able to move out and have my own place, but I pay my share towards the rent and bills, help my parents ( mother is registered disabled) and sure as fucking hell do not sit on my arse popping out kids and expecting people to pay for it. MOST WORKING CLASS PEOPLE DON'T.

Not all people on benefits pop out babies and spend your money on crack. A good majority of them are tryng their fucking hardest to get a job. But due to either their life circumstances ( bad schooling ect ) along with a fair few other things that are most likely beyond their control, they cannot get work and have little option but to sign on for beefits until they can find a job .



My best friend works in the job centre here, and she's had people with degree level education ( people who by your definitions would more than likely be deemed middle class ) having to sign on for benefits because they've lost their jobs due to the credit crunch/economic problems.


What you've been describing are not working class people as a whole, they're a relatively isolated group ( compared with the rest of the working class population ) of time wasting arseholes. I know everyone generalises to a degreee but you're seriously taking the piss with your idea of working class.

I can tell you now, from what you describe you are NOT middle class in any way. You sure as hell wouldn't be over here. You'd be a basic bog standard working class person with a job.

[Ben Lahnger]

Holy crap! Amunet, you have a bunch of people telling you to open your eyes, but you are insisting that they all must be wrong because you have THE insight?

Originally Posted by Amunet

My whole point is that middle class working individuals are having a harder time surviving, because its up to them to generate their income, they can't rely on a government fall back plan.

Wrong. My SO and I were middle class. We both lost our jobs. We relied on the government for a backup plan by collecting unemployment compensation. So now our government provided income is closer to what the lower class gets with their welfare and other poverty benefits. Here's the difference:

When we were both working and getting the middle class income, we both had health insurance, could choose our doctor and had access to a very high level of medical care. Now, I don't have insurance, avoid going to the doctor and filling prescriptions, and for serious medical needs the emergency room will be my first and probably only resource.

When we were both earning a middle class income, we could afford to buy nice clothes, eat out frequently, go see a show or movie when we wanted to. Life was good. Now I have learned the many ways to make Ramen more interesting and how to put enough ketchup and mustard on a turkey frank that it almost tastes like a hot dog. I don't buy DVD's or go out anymore. I've got Netflix for $8.99 a month and we get all of our entertainment at home.

When we had middle class cash, we were ahead of the bills and were building our credit rating. We could afford an upscale 3 bedroom apartment in a nice neighborhood where one doesn't worry much about crime (which is a big deal in a city of four million people.) By the end of March we will be moving to a smaller apartment in a crappier neighborhood to keep our expenses manageable. And we are just getting the bills paid, living payday to payday, and both of our credit ratings have taken a hit.

Now that I am getting unemployment compensation I have a lower class income. And even with the government support, I am struggling to make it much more than I ever did when I was working.

So you might want to gently back down off that ledge you've walked yourself out on, stop yelling as if you're the only one who knows what's going on, and have the grace to at least acknowledge that your understanding of what middle class is might be a bit off.

[Mir]

FUCK people that sit on G,Net and complain about how tough life is. I wish you`d die so someone else can get the same shot at life that you`re moaning about.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Amunet

No, I was a fucking Kid in this shit. But I grew up and worked for my way in life!

And, according to your logic, you had it better back then than you do now as middle class, right?