Transgendered Teacher Files Complaint Over Firing

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

So how many discussions on transgenders have you had with your younger siblings of age 4?

When I was about 7 (maybe eight I don't remember what time of year it was) the son of one of the teachers at my school underwent gender reassignment. It was a small school and everyone knew everyone's whole family, including faculty. Sean had visited the school many times (he was studying to be a librarian and he would come have reading time) and when Sean became Shawna all that we kids wanted to know was if Shawna would still be able to read to us in as many funny voices. So yeah it wasn't an issue for us, at all, we didn't see a transition from man to woman we just saw a person being a person, and I would be surprised if this substitute teacher is anywhere near as well know to the students as Shawna was to us.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Dude. Did you just use the “I’m not racist, I have black friends!” defense?

More like, I'm not racist because I AM black. Your the outsider looking in mate.

It doesn’t matter how you feel about this shit in the abstract, Sternn. It doesn’t even matter if you’ve had gay lovers galore yourself. Actions speak louder than words, and you’ve given no convincing argument as to why transsexuality should be treated as an exceptional case

Being a transgender is not the main issue. If you think that is the main issue, then your not paying attention.

The issue is what a school, a Church led school, is going to teach my child. That is the issue. IF my child were in THAT school, I would have expected the school to follow the same course of action.

At the end of the day my child isn't in that school, he is in another Catholic school, so if you don't have a child in that school, again, your wasting your time bitching here about it.

Trying to make this out to be some sort of discrimination issue is daft at best. We are talking about what parents want their children learning at various ages.

I don't want certain topics taught to my 4 year old child. If you feel that you have some divine right to force adult material upon MY child, then please feel free to explain why exactly you think you should be able to tell me and any other parent what they should teach their child and why.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

More like, I'm not racist because I AM black. Your the outsider looking in mate.

You used to be a woman?

Being a transgender is not the main issue. If you think that is the main issue, then your not paying attention.

The issue is what a school, a Church led school, is going to teach my child. That is the issue. IF my child were in THAT school, I would have expected the school to follow the same course of action.

At the end of the day my child isn't in that school, he is in another Catholic school, so if you don't have a child in that school, again, your wasting your time bitching here about it.

Trying to make this out to be some sort of discrimination issue is daft at best. We are talking about what parents want their children learning at various ages.

I don't want certain topics taught to my 4 year old child. If you feel that you have some divine right to force adult material upon MY child, then please feel free to explain why exactly you think you should be able to tell me and any other parent what they should teach their child and why.

If that were the case then we can open the door to firing someone for being black, an amputee, a disabled person, a woman, basically anyone who isn't the typical white Catholic male. Don't want little boys to be learning from a woman, they might learn something about sexuality. Don't want them learning about black people, might learn about racism. Jesus Christ, why is one type of discrimination absolutely fine with you?

[AsylumVoid]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

More like, I'm not racist because I AM black. Your the outsider looking in mate.

Being a transgender is not the main issue. If you think that is the main issue, then your not paying attention.

The issue is what a school, a Church led school, is going to teach my child. That is the issue. IF my child were in THAT school, I would have expected the school to follow the same course of action.

At the end of the day my child isn't in that school, he is in another Catholic school, so if you don't have a child in that school, again, your wasting your time bitching here about it.

Trying to make this out to be some sort of discrimination issue is daft at best. We are talking about what parents want their children learning at various ages.

I don't want certain topics taught to my 4 year old child. If you feel that you have some divine right to force adult material upon MY child, then please feel free to explain why exactly you think you should be able to tell me and any other parent what they should teach their child and why.

I know transexuals and people are incredibly ignorant about transexualism. It's an issue that needs to be discussed. I think teaching children and explaining to them at a level that is appropriate to them is good.

We're not asking to show them graphic images of gender reassignment surgery or talking to them about fetishes and sex, we're talking about people who are stupidly misunderstood more so than homosexuals and suffer hideously for it. That is not right. Plus there are a lot of stories recently about transexual children, so it isn't just as adult topic. It runs through all age groups.

If you don't want your child to learn about this subject...pull them out of that one class and explain it to them when you feel fit. Parents do it all the time, don't ruin another parents opportunity to have something explained to their child. Most people know jack shit about this subject and I think it'd be appropriate for a form of education on it.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Saya

If that were the case then we can open the door to firing someone for being black, an amputee, a disabled person, a woman, basically anyone who isn't the typical white Catholic male. Don't want little boys to be learning from a woman, they might learn something about sexuality. Don't want them learning about black people, might learn about racism. Jesus Christ, why is one type of discrimination absolutely fine with you?

Apples and oranges. Who said anything about white or disabled? Those are things people have no say over. This person is CHOOSING to have ELECTIVE surgery.

Again, I don't want my kids that I put in a Catholic school being subjugated to certain adult topics.

It comes down to who do you feel will be violated more - a person who works a few days a year and is opting for elective surgery or the rights of the parents along with the rights of the children at the school, not to mention the teachings of the Catholic church.

If I put my 4 year old child in a Catholic school and someone brought in that sort of material, I would be very litigious.

If you disagree, fine. Put YOUR kids where YOU choose. It's not about just one persons 'rights' here, its the rights of every child and parent in the school, which you appear to not care about or even consider.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by AsylumVoid

I know transexuals and people are incredibly ignorant about transexualism. It's an issue that needs to be discussed. I think teaching children and explaining to them at a level that is appropriate to them is good.

I agree whole heartily. But are you suggesting that children as young as four years old need to be introduced to this material?

We're not asking to show them graphic images of gender reassignment surgery or talking to them about fetishes and sex, we're talking about people who are stupidly misunderstood more so than homosexuals and suffer hideously for it. That is not right. Plus there are a lot of stories recently about transexual children, so it isn't just as adult topic. It runs through all age groups.

*sigh*. Again, like sex, death, and a cadre of other adult topics, I will teach my child these things as I deem fit. If my child is not exposed to such topics at such a young age, I feel they will be better off. Thats my decision for my child.

If you don't want your child to learn about this subject...pull them out of that one class and explain it to them when you feel fit. Parents do it all the time, don't ruin another parents opportunity to have something explained to their child. Most people know jack shit about this subject and I think it'd be appropriate for a form of education on it.

We are not talking one class, we are talking a whole school. Are you suggesting people who send their 4 year old children to a Catholic School need to remove them if they don't want them learn about transgender sexuality?

Seriously, this is a Catholic school. Certain topics are taboo in most schools, but even more so in ones who have even more strict beliefs than the average joe.

Until you have transgender Priests/Nuns/Monks don't expect to have transgendered teachers at a Catholic school. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the Vatican.

[Duane]

The Vatican? Waste of time... it took them 40 years to forgive John Lennon for the comment he made. A person shouldn't lose a job because he felt more comfortable as a woman, just pull your kid out of the class, or home school him if you feel this strongly about it.

[Red Menace]

Hmm. Gender reassignment is not a process that people go through frivolously or for effect or to make a point.

[Malice In Wonderland]

Saya, I fucking love you.

And Sternn.
I managed to explain it to my seven year old sister.
I'm pretty sure she's borderline retarded and she got it.
I also have a very close transgender friend (they briefly signed up here if anyone remembers) and a few family friends who are teachers.
I should point out the teachers I know have NO choice of where they taught, or even what subject.

It's rapidly dawning on me that you're a bigoted twat that doesn't know what he's talking about.

[SweetJane]

There's just no way that anything like this is better to experience at a later age. I mean, I live in a town surrounded by some really backwards rural areas, and their fear of black people, gay and transgendered people, and pretty much anyone who didn't grow up with them stems from them never encountering these things. It's a lot easier to get the idea that transgendered people are bad or disgusting when you've never met one.

[Necrophagist]

I don't think the children are the problem. Like Saya, Malice, and most other people have said, the children themselves are not affected. However, what about the parents of these children? Would they want their children to be taught about transgender person at primary school age? No. It's easy to say to Sternn "If you don't like it you can gtfo", but most parents will be thinking along the same lines as Sternn. It wouldn't just be Sterrn pulling the child out of the school, most parents will.

[Malice In Wonderland]

Which brings forth the fact that the school is catering to a bigoted majority rather than trying to make it more acceptable.
I don't really think this is legal to be honest.
Equal rights and all?
Is gay marriage legal in Canada?

[Necrophagist]

Yes but that's with most schools.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Apples and oranges. Who said anything about white or disabled? Those are things people have no say over. This person is CHOOSING to have ELECTIVE surgery.

Again, I don't want my kids that I put in a Catholic school being subjugated to certain adult topics.

It comes down to who do you feel will be violated more - a person who works a few days a year and is opting for elective surgery or the rights of the parents along with the rights of the children at the school, not to mention the teachings of the Catholic church.

If I put my 4 year old child in a Catholic school and someone brought in that sort of material, I would be very litigious.

If you disagree, fine. Put YOUR kids where YOU choose. It's not about just one persons 'rights' here, its the rights of every child and parent in the school, which you appear to not care about or even consider.

An amputee's surgery could have been more or less elective, but it improved his or her quality of life to do so. Likewise, someone diagnosed with a gender identity disorder will be miserable all their lives if they can't present as their true gender. It just comes down to you not liking whats now between his legs. The kids aren't going to see his new penis so its really none of your business, and its only an "adult" situation as you make it (Lots of kids have a GID, you know, while they have to wait til their older to have a sex change its more and more acceptable for kids to present as a different gender. Would you pull out a Catholic transgender kid, make them expelled just so your kids couldn't see this little kid?)

What you're arguing for is the tyranny of the majority, assuming the parents in this case had a problem with it, being able to run the lives of the minority. And you're a Marxist?

And yeah, Malice, we legalized gay marriage federally in 2005, although different provinces have legalized it before then. Even Newfoundland did! I think Alberta was the one dragging its feet to get with the program.

[Saya]

And look, he's not teaching your little holy four year olds (and like I said before it was unlikely anyway since kindergarten doesn't start until age 5):

"I am horrified that this would happen to anybody," said Buterman, 39, who taught social studies, German and French to students in Grades 7 to 12 in the well-to-do bedroom community of St. Albert north of Edmonton.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...mFtbeapfO5NY3w

So he was teaching junior high and senior high. Still wanna argue that 13-18 year olds have absolutely no idea about anything about sexuality and gender?

[KontanKarite]

POINT!

Saya's serve!

[Red Menace]

These Canadians need to get their act together anyway. Isn't this kind of nonsense illegal over there yet? It is over here.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

These Canadians need to get their act together anyway. Isn't this kind of nonsense illegal over there yet? It is over here.

Yeah, transgenders are covered. Its illegal, just a little wimper from the religious right is all thats stopping it.

[Necrophagist]

Actually Saya has won hands down.

[JCC]

If you refuse to teach children about anything potentially contentious, you end up having to put reactionary twats in their place when these sheltered assholes reach the point where they're not so easily convinced. Telling them when they're young is a lot better than waiting it out.

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by Saya

Yeah, transgenders are covered. Its illegal, just a little wimper from the religious right is all thats stopping it.

I'm very glad to hear it.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Saya

So he was teaching junior high and senior high. Still wanna argue that 13-18 year olds have absolutely no idea about anything about sexuality and gender?

It doesn't matter what they know, its a Catholic school and in Catholic schools certain things are not acceptable.

I'm Catholic, and if the Church says something isn't supposed to be taught, I agree. It's my faith. You can have yours, just don't shit on mine.

In your attempts to argue for 'rights', your for some reason leaving out the 'rights' of those who do not wish to have their children subjugated to such topics.

More importantly, you're stepping on the rights of people who want to practice their religion in the manner which is proscribed by their Church.

You can argue here till yer blue in the face, but it won't change my opinion, because my opinion comes from the Church, I'm merely pointing out why they did what they did. Being a Catholic, I don't disagree with them.

Feel free to continue to banter on about how I am wrong. In the meantime, I won't be paying any attention to this thread. I mean, the Church made a ruling, yer man was sacked, end of story. No reason to argue whether you support that ruling or not unless you plan on doing something to change it. If your not, your just wasting everyone time, including your own.

I have nothing to argue for, considering they ruled the way I felt was appropriate. Fair play to them. Let us know if anything changes in the case, but chances are this will fizzle out long before it ever sees any real court room and will just go away, much like this thread will.

[Saya]

Sorry to dig this up again, didn't know he replied again.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

It doesn't matter what they know, its a Catholic school and in Catholic schools certain things are not acceptable.

Like women and black people in authority were once unacceptable, right?

I'm Catholic, and if the Church says something isn't supposed to be taught, I agree. It's my faith. You can have yours, just don't shit on mine.

Fine, as long as you don't rob people of their basic human rights.

In your attempts to argue for 'rights', your for some reason leaving out the 'rights' of those who do not wish to have their children subjugated to such topics.

Because his right to be who he is doesn't fringe on other people's rights. Firing a person for being who they are because you're a bigot violates their rights. What about the right of a white man to not hire a black man because he thinks the bible says so? The white man who thinks blacks should be slaves because the bible says so?

More importantly, you're stepping on the rights of people who want to practice their religion in the manner which is proscribed by their Church.

I won't rob anyone the right to be a bigot, its when they you know, rob someone of their bread and butter for having a penis is when I feel its wrong that they use their religion to do so. Look, you said you had male lovers. The Vatican is very much against it and according to them you're probably going to hell. Do you use birth control? Do you think that they should be able to teach that masterbation sends you to hell in Catholic school too and that you can get pregnant by kissing?

You can argue here till yer blue in the face, but it won't change my opinion, because my opinion comes from the Church, I'm merely pointing out why they did what they did. Being a Catholic, I don't disagree with them.

So you do think queers are going to hell, right? And so are women who use the pill?

Feel free to continue to banter on about how I am wrong. In the meantime, I won't be paying any attention to this thread. I mean, the Church made a ruling, yer man was sacked, end of story. No reason to argue whether you support that ruling or not unless you plan on doing something to change it. If your not, your just wasting everyone time, including your own.

Yeah no reason to argue anything. Are you doing something to change politics in America the way you keep bitching about them or are you just going to stay in Ireland?

I have nothing to argue for,

You got that right.

considering they ruled the way I felt was appropriate. Fair play to them. Let us know if anything changes in the case, but chances are this will fizzle out long before it ever sees any real court room and will just go away, much like this thread will.

Yeah its totally fair to discriminate against people for no good reason other than A MAN IN A DRESS AND FUNNY HAT said so. And no, it won't fizzle out in our courts, for all our flaws human rights violations especially in government institutions like schools are kinda taken seriously in Canada.

[Mourning Would]

The Catholic church is ridiculous when it comes to these things. I don't see anything wrong with a person getting a sex change, most other churches would probably have no problem with it.

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by Mourning Would

The Catholic church is ridiculous when it comes to these things. I don't see anything wrong with a person getting a sex change, most other churches would probably have no problem with it.

Please dont pin this on the whole Catholic church, because I can tell you the Catholic church as a whole does not feel that transgendered people and sex changes are wrong. This is an isolated incident.