Magdelin Laundry

[Jonathan]

The engine of change seems to have hit a 50+ page stretch of missing track.

Gothicus, how's the view from the top? Concerned about your position yet?

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

When you win the argument and end racism forever, wealth disparity will be a bigger social problem by default if nothing else. This paradox will destroy us all.

Yes, I'm aware that the reprocusions will be massive. Still looking for an answer, though.

[Jonathan]

Yes I did. Not to your satisfaction? I'm terribly sorry.

http://www.princeton.edu/futureofchi...nid=552&submit has some information on the interaction of wealth and social mobility.

[Versus]

The whole point is that change starts in the hearts and minds of the people around you. Nobody can enforce morality.

Despanan's turn.

[Versus]

Despanan, what I meant was that it made me uncomfortable because I felt like you used slavery for emphasis. Not because it was inappropriate, but because you know it has more weight here. That jack ass on Whatsherfaces's wall, for instance. Obviously a gross exaggeration, but there is the same problem there, as well. A poor example of that is one of the links I posted about animal slavery. Animal cruelty is a perfectly acceptable phrasing, but I feel like the fuck head at PETA said it specifically because of its gravity, of it's weight, to take advantage of that to draw more support for the cause. I'm sure it wasn't intentional for you, but it does happen, it's something I hear rarely, and it's something I am aware of.

I wasn't drawing comparisons between slavery and the n word. That's stupid. I was drawing comparisons between the arguments to defend it's usage. Saya also described pretty well how it is exhausting to constantly have to construct some badass articulation of why something bothers you. It allows for marginalization, dismissal, ect, and It's not asking much for someone to stop doing something that bothers you, to trust that it actually does bother you and that you may be aware of something they are not because of their position. Why should I have to tear apart any argument somebody has to use the n word? Why can't we just accept that nothing supersedes the fact that it bothers me?

But you're right. It's always a thought crime. I don't know why you used it, and I can't gather anything other then what you say and my own trust. I could have actually said something to respond to, you could have just gone with it. It doesn't really matter. It's a little thing that is largely sourced from our prior interaction.

So there. I can't articulate it well. If anybody can't understand that, I really don't care because it's not the point anymore.

[Alan]

Alright, I took too long to respond and I won't even finish today, but here's a preliminary of it all, because I'm gonna be busy all weekend.
His posts ain't going anywhere anyway.

First a bonus

To him gender means

I am able to lift heavy things, open stuck jars, and be good at math.

And then the racism

The first hint of anything was this response to an admittedly inappropriate and stupid poster, but notice where he puts emphasis and under what terms he decides to take offense

As far as the poster goes, I guess any time there are more than two white people seen together they are either members of the nazi party or the tin woodsman convention

But here's the big one that began all this shit

Institutional racism doesn't exist anymore

then he got lost in his own argument

And the economic standing of these individuals is totally just a coincidence?

No, it's not a coincidence that minorities are disproportionally poorer. You know what we call that statistically significant link between being a minority and being poor? Racism.

I didn't say "Racism doesn't exist!"

Yeah, you did. The thing is that for you it “doesn't matter”

Then this if YOUR version of what racism looks like today

Of course racism exists, Versus called me a Cracker.

To you racism is just an insult. You think racism exists only as a shitty word, whereas we minorities realize that the word is what CARRIES the racism. The fact that you get it backwards shows how little you understand or care about racism.

This was his response to the fact that in one single year the NYPD has stopped and searched black people in New York city more times than the total number of black people living in New York City

So far it sounds like racist cop(s) did shitty thing

Yeah I'm sure it was only a couple of racist cops that managed to stop and frisk half a million people. Or maybe it was ten? Or a hundred? Or a thousand, each of them frisking two black males a day to end up with the numbers of the finding. There's no institutional racism here, it's just a couple thousand cops who are the racists, not the NYPD in general.
For the record, if anyone is interested, even though 87% of the stops were on minorities, the percentage of frisks resulting in a weapon were 1.8% among black and latinos and 3.8% among whites. If you swallow Jonathan's bullshit that there's no institutional racism anymore and remaining racism doesn't matter as much as socioeconomic factors, then the NYPD would be frisking poor white people twice as much as minorities, instead of six times less.

Here's where Jonathan shows us his short-term memory

I have heard has been predicated on the idea that people are making use of social services without contributing back into the system, presumably directly in terms of paying taxes.

And conveniently forgets that pre-economic crisis, the rhetoric was that we took jobs, not that we took welfare money without contributing.
So if it's really just a socioeconomic thing, why were illegal immigrants not hailed for their work ethic?

And then we come into the crux of it all, the Atheism+, Mitt Romney's photo op, White People are Hilarious, and the Magdelin Laundry threads. That is what I said will take hours and I ain't got the time right now, but I'll be damned if I won't deconstruct it all. This was kind of fun.


Also, This post becomes hilarious in hindsight - This thread has become terrible. You should definitely pay more attention to Saya than post in it any more.

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Alan

Also, This post becomes hilarious in hindsight - This thread has become terrible. You should definitely pay more attention to Saya than post in it any more.

Do you mean me?

[Alan]

All the quotes are of Jonathan.
Back to my homework.

[Jonathan]

I hope the rest of your quotes are better. Considering all the work you're doing I feel kind of bad I didn't give you anything more salacious to work with.

Versus went through the trouble to define racism for me at least once, so I'm not seeing anything that merits the label.

So there was this poster AshleyO* found that compared Occupy to Nazis and I guess the KKK, because all three of them had angry white people in it. AshelyO clearly posted the image because he thought it was incredulous and unfair. I responded by mocking the general premise of it and also thought the uniforms of whoever the fuck was represented in the upper left looked stupid. Convenient how your deconstruction glosses over that.

Moving on, that "I have heard has been predicated on the idea that people are making use of social services without contributing back into the system, presumably directly in terms of paying taxes" was back during a discussion about Arizona immigration right. Funny thing is you seem to have missed "You know, it could be an excuse. I don't believe everyone who makes that (arguably stupid) complaint is just using "not paying taxes" as a wink and nod to be themselves racist without actually going for it blatantly, though." Oh hey look more context you stripped out. If this was off-the-cuff it'd be understandable, but with however many hours to creepily sift through the last couple months it's disheartening.

Racism isn't just an insult to me - it's disparaging someone on the basis of race, although apparently having power makes a difference. I've seen the light, apparently hurling racial epithets isn't racist because that is a special word, it's merely racially intolerant which is different. So sorry for the confusion.

Having been able to hear the recent recording of an NY stop and frisk I wasn't sure if that particular incident was a case of two specific asshole cops, until information about their policies and superior's conduct came to light. That's a fucked up and broken system. If they are screening out non-racist asshole cops or reassigning or firing decent ones, that's a broken system. I apologize, but statistics don't make a compelling argument to me. Who are these people, how did they get in the situation they are in? Somewhere in NY is an individual person responsible for setting and maintaining awful policies, and they need to be held accountable.

The Atheism+ thread was a mindfuck, pure and simple. I can't even call it an argument, it was just a bunch of yelling about unrelated scenarios that had nothing to do with what I had written.

This part of the board has really started sucking since at least this summer, when it seems to have become more about trolling and finding excuses to flame each other than discuss shit.

[edorien]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Racism isn't just an insult to me - it's disparaging someone on the basis of race, although apparently having power makes a difference. I've seen the light, apparently hurling racial epithets isn't racist because that is a special word, it's merely racially intolerant which is different. So sorry for the confusion.

Seriously? I mean I've been know to use different words to describe aspects to the problem, but the statement is just insulting in attempting to trivialise the objections.

I apologize, but statistics don't make a compelling argument to me.

If hard data doesn't serve to influence your opinion, wgat does?

[Jonathan]

Not trivializing the objections, on the other hand these dudes are trivializing a race-bashing thread. A laughably childish one, but one nonetheless.

The "hard data" is incomplete. It could indicate any number of things. Despanan's thread with the stop and frisk however doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation. There's not much I can do with a statistic except say "Yep that sure is a number, there" without having more specific information. It doesn't tell why or how.