Proposition 8 Overturned

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Ras: Actually, I was referring loosely to a Lewis Black joke. *shrug* But whatever.

Ophie: I honestly don't care. Do whatever you want.

So you "honestly don't care" if gay people have the same rights as you when it comes to the legal benefits of marriage?

As long as YOU have the benefits, everyone else can fuck off?

[Ráskógr]

Tam: Yeah, I know. I didn't mean to be insulting, but for those of us who have struggled diligently to procure equality in marriage for the LGBT community, dragging that "misery" canard into the conversation is insulting, in and of itself. Leave the comedy to the comedians.

Considering you reiterated Black's one liner, and seem almost comatose towards this topic, I don't suppose it would be worth asking if you would maintain your same laissez faire attitude towards marriage if it was your own marriage which was on the line?

[Ben Lahnger]

I saw a stand-up comedian do a brilliant bit about this earlier this week. It went something like this:

"You know how times have changed? Back 50 or 60 years ago, inter-racial marriage was the big controversy. 'We can't have them marrying outside their type, they should be marrying each other!'

Now it's gay marriage that is controversial. It's as if part of society is saying, 'We can't have them marrying each other. They should be marrying ... US?"

LMAO!

And, yes, chalk up another small victory for justice ... and happiness.

[Razeal18]

Originally Posted by Breathless Horror

Very true, but it is nice that someone can stand up when the people themselves are attempting to take the rights of others and say "fuck you, no."

I agree, never let the government try to give you rights you already have. A man has the right to be happy by his own efforts.

[ape descendant]

Yay!! Finally... prop 8 was a shitty law that was mostly supported by religious jerk-wads who hate gay people.

As long as marriage, as a legal status is something that is granted by the government, it should be equally available to people regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation.

IMO not allowing some people to marry for some arbitrary reason that is mostly religious in nature is a wild violation of the constitution, especially one's freedom of association.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

So you "honestly don't care" if gay people have the same rights as you when it comes to the legal benefits of marriage?

As long as YOU have the benefits, everyone else can fuck off?

I don't think you really want my honest opinion on this, Ophie.

But, if you do, feel free to read this.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Ráskógr

Considering you reiterated Black's one liner, and seem almost comatose towards this topic, I don't suppose it would be worth asking if you would maintain your same laissez faire attitude towards marriage if it was your own marriage which was on the line?

That's a fair question.

As long as we could be together, and could be considered spiritually and emotionally married in the eyes of God [which some homosexuals do, when they have a ceremony, even if their state doesn't legally recognize it], I couldn't care less about the financial or legal benefits.

I don't need the State to tell me I love my husband, or to tell me that he is, indeed, my husband.

[Ráskógr]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

That's a fair question.

As long as we could be together, and could be considered spiritually and emotionally married in the eyes of God [which some homosexuals do, when they have a ceremony, even if their state doesn't legally recognize it], I couldn't care less about the financial or legal benefits.

I don't need the State to tell me I love my husband, or to tell me that he is, indeed, my husband.

Just curious, do you actually have a marriage license? No need to answer if the question is too personal.

Anyone can do whatever they want, as long as their social agenda doesn't trample my own rights, or interfere in my life.

[Tam Li Hua]

Ras: Here's a better question: Am I against homosexuals being allowed their marriage licenses?

Absolutely not.

But still, you may find the blog entry I linked Ophie to rather informative. =) [I refuse to be bullied into conforming to popular opinion just because my opinion pisses off someone else.]

[ape descendant]

Obviously, giving gay people equal marriage rights under the law ISN'T popular opinion, or else prop 8 wouldn't have passed.

And it isn't just about money, but being able to share a household, legally the way a married couple do. Its about being treated as family legally when it comes to things like; medical decisions, insurance benefits, adoption and more.

These are things that a poxy religious ceremony with no legal licence CAN'T do.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

And it isn't just about money, but being able to share a household, legally the way a married couple do. Its about being treated as family legally when it comes to things like; medical decisions, insurance benefits, adoption and more.

Now that I can understand. It -is- unfair to be with your beloved for several years, and not be able to raise kids [if that's your thing] and not be able to make the difficult medical decisions, if necessary.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

I don't think you really want my honest opinion on this, Ophie.

But, if you do, feel free to read this.

Your 'article' is fucking stupid. Of course homosexuals in California want to be noticed, they are trying to win a basic human right for a community maligned throughout modern American history. To stand up and be counted is the anti-Prop 8 movement's fundamental purpose, that American society sits up and notices the unacceptable way that it treats homosexual couples and redresses those wrongs.

[Tam Li Hua]

JCC: That kind of being noticed is fine.

What I meant was more along the lines of folks who live off of attention, and who would be greatly dismayed if they weren't considered special or unique.

For example, when the four New England states made homosexual marriage legal, no one said a word. I fear that if it were any state other than California, then maybe it wouldn't be in the news as much as it is. But I could be wrong.

[CallMeDeth]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

JCC: That kind of being noticed is fine.

What I meant was more along the lines of folks who live off of attention, and who would be greatly dismayed if they weren't considered special or unique.

For example, when the four New England states made homosexual marriage legal, no one said a word. I fear that if it were any state other than California, then maybe it wouldn't be in the news as much as it is. But I could be wrong.

Are you seriously trying to say that the homosexuals in California are going to all of this effort for the attention just because they don't want to move three thousand miles away to be legally married?

That's a stretch at best, considering this is a group that generally gets that sort of (primarily negative) attention anyways, whether they like it or not. Not only that, but there are plenty of other, easier ways to get mainstream attention for yourself besides trying to exploit a minority group's plight in order to achieve fame. If one's goal is fame, one becomes an actor, musician, artist, or some other performer. If one's goal is infamy, all they have to do is blow something to smithereens. Why in the hell would an entire minority group that is widely discriminated against for their very nature be trying to achieve equality in ALL AREAS of a supposedly equal and free nation simply for the attention?

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by CallMeDeth

Are you seriously trying to say that the homosexuals in California are going to all of this effort for the attention just because they don't want to move three thousand miles away to be legally married?

No; I'm saying that California may be getting WAY more attention than New England ever did over this issue, period, for whatever reason.

My question is this: Why didn't New England get as much attention then as California is getting now? It seems a little...disproportionate.

I guess I would feel better if New England had also gotten as much attention, or if California passed the law while only getting as much attention as NE did. Does that make sense?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Ras: Here's a better question: Am I against homosexuals being allowed their marriage licenses?

Absolutely not.

But still, you may find the blog entry I linked Ophie to rather informative. =) [I refuse to be bullied into conforming to popular opinion just because my opinion pisses off someone else.]

I'm sorry, informative?

What the fuck is wrong with you? I know you're a Southern religious nut, but for some reason I just didn't except this level of ignorance.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

JCC: That kind of being noticed is fine.

What I meant was more along the lines of folks who live off of attention, and who would be greatly dismayed if they weren't considered special or unique.

So homosexuals want to maintain a special, unique status by being on the same legal footing as everyone else in the country? Great theory, Tam.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I'm sorry, informative?

"Informative" as in "informative about my opinion", not as in "informative about the facts". I'll readily admit, I probably don't have all the facts.

Sorry; bad choice of word.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by JCC

So homosexuals want to maintain a special, unique status by being on the same legal footing as everyone else in the country? Great theory, Tam.

That's not what I said. That's not even what I meant. -_-;;;

I already stated that I realized it's not all homosexuals, and that that kind of behavior is also present in some straight folks as well.

In general, this whole thing with California seems more theatrical than I think the same issue would be in any other state. I was wondering if, given how "cool" it is among some folks to be gay right now, if everyone who claims homosexuality is doing it because they are actually homosexual...or if some folks are jumping on this bandwagon just because they crave attention.

I realize, understand, and accept that most homosexuals do not crave this kind of negative attention, so please don't misunderstand me on that point.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

That's not what I said. That's not even what I meant. -_-;;;

I already stated that I realized it's not all homosexuals, and that that kind of behavior is also present in some straight folks as well.

In general, this whole thing with California seems more theatrical than I think the same issue would be in any other state. I was wondering if, given how "cool" it is among some folks to be gay right now, if everyone who claims homosexuality is doing it because they are actually homosexual...or if some folks are jumping on this bandwagon just because they crave attention.

I realize, understand, and accept that most homosexuals do not crave this kind of negative attention, so please don't misunderstand me on that point.

What the fuck? How can you characterize it to be 'fashionable' to be homosexual in a state where the majority of the electorate rejected gay marriage and it had to be overturned by the Chief Justice? What fucking planet are you on? Hey, maybe civil rights activists were just white guys in blackface, apart from the lynchings I'm sure being black was really fucking hip. Nobody gives a shit about New England because gay marriage wasn't a battle in New England, it only took a few months of pressure for New England to legalize gay marriage and the only state that overturned it was Maine, and who gives a fuck about Maine in comparison to California? It's got nothing to do with a culture of fake homosexuality in California, that is the most fastidiously and intricately stupid assertion I have heard in my entire life.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

That's not what I said. That's not even what I meant. -_-;;;

I already stated that I realized it's not all homosexuals, and that that kind of behavior is also present in some straight folks as well.

In general, this whole thing with California seems more theatrical than I think the same issue would be in any other state. I was wondering if, given how "cool" it is among some folks to be gay right now, if everyone who claims homosexuality is doing it because they are actually homosexual...or if some folks are jumping on this bandwagon just because they crave attention.

I realize, understand, and accept that most homosexuals do not crave this kind of negative attention, so please don't misunderstand me on that point.

Your inability to empathize is frightening.
Is it impossible for you to believe that it's important to people to be treated fairly?

It's not "theatrical." No one is having a good fucking time with it. But you can't see past your own nose because you get to enjoy being white, middle class, and straight.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Is it impossible for you to believe that it's important to people to be treated fairly?

Yes.

Which is why I've repeatedly said that if gay marriage happens, then I will be perfectly happy.

Are you drunk? Or are you just pissed-off about something else?

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by JCC

How can you characterize it to be 'fashionable' to be homosexual in a state where the majority of the electorate rejected gay marriage and it had to be overturned by the Chief Justice?

Because California is getting a ton more attention than New England did, and I find that unfair.

Why does California get more attention than New England did over this issue? This is really my only question.

If you have an answer, I'll be happy to listen to it.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Because California is getting a ton more attention than New England did, and I find that unfair.

Why does California get more attention than New England did over this issue? This is really my only question.

If you have an answer, I'll be happy to listen to it.

It was about a line underneath that quote.

[Tam Li Hua]

If it hadn't been so easy for New England, would it still have gotten as much attention?

And why care more about California than New England? That in and of itself doesn't make sense, unless you actually live in California.