men are people too

[Rae Ven Rae]

Wasn't sure if this should go here, esp if I am, quote unquote, whining on behalf of someone else--also, I realized as I was writing this, that Goths don't have this particular issue as much as mainstreamers because we are more progressive thinking...

Anway--my rant;

Chivalry is dead and women killed it. Dave Chapelle said that during a stand up performance and I felt robbed.

I had been saying it for years.

How did we kill it?

By sending men mixed signals.

We tell the world we value our independence, some of us going so far as to scream at a guy for having the courtesy to hold a door open for us so it doesn't smash us in the face, and yet, when we get married, some of us expect to be taken care of financially and emotionally, no matter how much money we ourselves personally make, frowning on men who don’t have high profile jobs, no matter their suitability as a partner.

Or we become so independent minded with an “I don’t need no man” attitude, that we make our partners feel like little more than a walking dildo.

Example -- a good friend of mine told me about a friend of hers who felt she had finally met her soul mate. The man was attractive, fun, decent, kind and loving. She was falling in love fast. On top of it all, he was a civic minded firefighter, beloved in his community. But when she was relating her confusion about the relationship, it had nothing to do with whether or not the guy was decent. It had to do with the fact that he was a fireman and had a low paying job.

“I make eighty-thousand dollars a year – I want a mate who makes at least that much,” She sniffed.

So she dumped him.

They remained casual friends. Some time passed and he got engaged. He invited her to the engagement party, and when she went to his home she discovered that dude was living in a mansion – he was a millionaire—he only volunteered as a fireman!

He had kept his wealth a secret so he would be assured that the woman he was with loved him for him and not his money.

In the end, he found the woman who was perfect for him—the one who accepted him as a fireman.

Talk about a karmic bitch slap! LOL…

Another case in point, a fellow singer I heard tale of was constantly gold digging. During a very ritzy, high profile gig, she met a man, an ugly little French fellow who barely spoke English, who hit on her the entire evening.

She snubbed him , later joking to her friends that she had been followed around all night by a funny little French man with a cheesy accent.

She soon found out that the dude was a Prince.

Needless to say that blew chicha’s high.

And good for her.

She didn’t like him before—so what changed? He was Danny Davito in her eyes, but suddenly a title turned him into Ville Valo…

Sadly, many American women do just this sort of thing – we toss aside the garbage man with a heart a gold for a surgeon who yes, makes a 100 K a year, but when you are no longer a trophy wife, he will cheat on you with his nurses…

We want equality, but the man has to pay for every date or he is looked down upon. We want to be put on pedestals, but frown on a woman who wants to do the same for her man. We want our emotional needs met, but when a man expresses a desire that is not feminine (because hey, they are men, not women) we scoff, demean them and make fun.

A good example of this is how men have to have space. They do. It makes them feel independent and not chained--this is very important to the male psyche. But when a man says this, what do we do. We get all freaked out, call our girlfriends and make him feel like a jerk for a very legitimate male needs.

Ladies, we have to admit it. An unfair tide has turned in our country. Where once we were downtrodden and had no voice, the roles are reversed and it is men who are in this position.

I say this because, I see more and more, where men appear to have to place their emotional wants and needs on a back burner in relationships, when we should be more understanding of those needs.

Other prime examples. We get pissed off if our man tries to tell us what to do, who to see and where to go--but he has to consult with us for his every move.

I've been privy to occasions where a man will tell his woman, "Hey I am going to go up the street and see so and so"…

And a girl exclaims, "No, hell you won't!". This is often met by heart amen’s from the gal pals.

Back that up.

Say you told you man "Hey, I am going to the store with so and so and I'll be back in a minute."

What would we say if he told us, "No hell you won't?"

Dude would be sleeping on the couch.

See what I am saying?

How is that fair?

Two grown people who love and trust one another, should be able to make plans—without constantly having to okay it with one another. To be sure, no girl or guy should be out every night -- if that were the case, why be in a relationship? But, you should be able to have a guy or girls night out without constantly having to check in.

If you married someone you cannot trust, whose fault is that?

We tend to know very early on if the partner we have chosen is trustworthy--I know a woman who married a dude knowing he had a drug problem and had cheated on his ex wife--now that he is abusing drugs heavily once more and sleeping around she is pissed -- but she shares part of the blame in her own fix.

If you chose someone with whom you can give your whole heart and all your trust they do not need a leash.

Now of course, if you make pre plans then altering those on the fly is another matter--you should always value the time you set aside for one another.

Mutual respect is the cornerstone of relationships.

Men value their independence just like we do, and they should have a healthy outlet to express it.

Also, we want our men to be there emotionally for us right? If we are scared, we want to be held, if we are down , we want to be talked to, but if lets say, our man is going through a mid life crisis, we poke fun, ridicule and withdraw our affections, telling them to get over it?

If you were PMSing and your guys said, hell doll, get over it –well, the funeral would be lovely.

But we have no room for empathy or sympathy for male chemical emotional cycles and fluctuations, which is essentially what a mid life crisis (it is both psychological and physiological).

Don't our men's emotional needs matter?

Another case in point – we are constantly wanting our men to reassure us that they love us, find us a beautiful, attractive – yet if a man reaches out for this same comfort we tell him he is filled with “testosterone”, and wants his “ego stroked.”

Who doesn’t want their ego stroked once in a while?

If we want him to say, “Darling, I think you are the sexiest woman in the world,” then what is wrong with us saying, “Baby, you are such a hunk and I adore you…” or some variant thereof…

And yes—men are filled with testosterone – so what? This isn’t an inherently bad thing.

They are, after all, men—we are different—and that is not an evil thing.

Look it, we say we don't want to be treated like objects, and for men to have a regard for our well being, but in turn we view men like walking checkbooks, placing value on them based on what they earn.

This is not to say that the modern woman don’t face real modern issues and concerns, or that men are totally innocent in their portion of bad behaviors in the dating game, I am saying that part of the issues we may be having in this arena is due to women not owning up to the fact that we are placing our emotional well being on the shoulders of men and giving very little emotional support back.

My husband and are I are very independent natured -- he knows that I trust and love him so he is free to do what he likes, all I have to do is know so I don't worry, but it's not like he has to consult with me.

I let him be him, and he lets me be me.

But guess what--becasue he knwos he has that freedom he barely uses that card--thats' right. We are inseparable. He knows he is free, but he chooses to be by my side -- and I by his side.

It feels good knowing that, if he had a choice, he chooses to be with me.

We are also respectful of one another needs and desires. I mean, even in the little things. I never have to ask him to put the toilet seat down or take out the trash. He never has to ask me to hold him, talk to him, listen or even, give him space.

I adore him like no other being I have ever met--he is the light in my eyes and I don't care who knows it.

In time, our dynamic may change, and that's okay too--nothing is static, we all evolve and grow -- but I will accept him as he comes to me, faults and all, fears and all, needs in all, whether he has money or not.

Let us accept that doctors and lawyers who look like Brad Pitt are not the only men worth marrying, and maybe relations between the sexes will improve all around...

[Breathless Horror]

Thank you for that. I', starting to get a little sick of having to check to see if my nads are still there after I hold the door for a girl. I was just being nice, I hold the door for everybody, it didn't merit a "Do my arms look broken to you?!".

*goes and mopes in the corner*

[Rae Ven Rae]

I know right, but that same girl, who gave that attitude would wonder why men are no longer romantic--it pisses me off--we have to give the treatment that we ourselves expect, the whole do unto others. Love and respect is cyclic and reciprocal not an automatic given...

[Rae Ven Rae]

PS--don't let a girl like that make you stop being polite...so many people stop with the manners in reaction to rudeness.. I say keep on keeping on my brotha'..;-)

[delicti]

I try to be polite as much as possible, even if it means getting occasional rude comments and plenty of odd looks.

Thank you for saying this; it's sadly true that some people take courtesy as an insult, and I have plenty of friends who have gotten discouraged by it.

[Breathless Horror]

Thanks. No, I don't let it stop me, it's all worth it when I get a smile from a pretty girl or gratitude from someone who actually needs the help (people in wheel chairs, the elderly etc.).

My only other greivance is that girls all seem to think that I'm only nice because I want some. Just because I'm a teenage guy doesn't mean I'm only nice when I want to fuck someone -_-

[Linen]

Wow, bravo! That was an amazing post.

I have said for a long time that being a woman is so difficult today, because we expect one another to be Super Women: have a graduate degree, a high-powered career, have a husband with the same, and still manage to take care of the house with the white picket fence, and have 2.5 children of Einstein brilliance. We have put such difficult expectations upon ourselves as well as on men.

I can't understand why someone (woman OR man) would marry for money alone. Sure, you don't want to marry someone who is unemployed unless you make enough for the both of you and want to support them. You also have to be careful of people who are completely iresponsible with money. You want to be comfortable. Aside from that, what gives? Who are you trying to impress?

When I met my husband he was an assistant manager at a retail store. He made a decent amount, but he certainly wasn't rich. At the time, he drove a 10+ year old car that wasn't in the best condition, and he was living with his grandparents (he had just graduated from college and planned on moving out pretty quickly). We became best friends before we even dated. I fell in love with his smile, his laughter, the way he treated me, his passion for music and politics, and how wonderful I felt in his arms. Those are the kinds of things that really matter.

[Rae Ven Rae]

Amen and amen--like I said, I think Goths get it...why can't the rest of the world?

[Lapin]

Damn it, I want guys to open the door for me.....Horror, where do you live?

[Romantic Raven]

Rae, after reading your post I have an urge to hug you. I believe nobody could have stated this opinion better than you just did.

[Rae Ven Rae]

In the South -- and it's like a regular thing here...lol...love it...

Thank you Romantic Raven, I just feel we need to end the animosity come to the drawing board and try to start off on equal footing...

Perhaps a pipe dream...

[Lapin]

I live in bloody Maryland. No one is polite here. It seems to be against the law or something.

[lonelygirl17]

Finally! Someone who feels the same way as me. Gold digging women like that give women like us a bad name. People automactically assume that all women want fancy doctors and lawyers. I don't care what a man's profession is as long as he is sensitve and understanding and someone I can trust. As long as he isn't a drug dealer or an ex convict, I'm fine with it.

While some men can be annoying, I don't go around sprouting off man hating comments like so called "feminists". To be honest, I feel more sympathy toward men than women sometimes. So many double standard between both genders which the men suffer from the most. The one that annoys me the most is how a woman can hit a man and it's funny, but let a man hit a woman, all hell breaks loose where the man is labeled an abuser in a heartbeat ( which is true is some cases but not all).

That makes me wonder. Why is it only MEN can be abusers when WOMEN can be just as violent yet no matter if the situation is reversed the MAN is still made to be the bad guy while the WOMAN is always the victim?

[Rae Ven Rae]

Originally Posted by Lapin

I live in bloody Maryland. No one is polite here. It seems to be against the law or something.

damn that sucks...

[Rae Ven Rae]

While some men can be annoying, I don't go around sprouting off man hating comments like so called "feminists". To be honest, I feel more sympathy toward men than women sometimes. So many double standard between both genders which the men suffer from the most. The one that annoys me the most is how a woman can hit a man and it's funny, but let a man hit a woman, all hell breaks loose where the man is labeled an abuser in a heartbeat ( which is true is some cases but not all).

That makes me wonder. Why is it only MEN can be abusers when WOMEN can be just as violent yet no matter if the situation is reversed the MAN is still made to be the bad guy while the WOMAN is always the victim?[/quote]

yep--I agree-- I have known decent men who would never hit a girl, and some girls take advantage physically abusing them-- heifers like that need to be arrested...

popular media underlines this crap too, I mean, when was the last time a romance novel had a sexy bus driver on the cover holding a panting damsel???

[Breathless Horror]

Originally Posted by Lapin

Damn it, I want guys to open the door for me.....Horror, where do you live?

I'd be glad to hold doors for you, if you would only be so kind as to pay for my taxicab down from Ottawa, Canada :P

[Amarantha]

THANK. YOU.


*saves to email*

[Underwater Ophelia]

Men are people...? Seriously, that's just stupid. Men are actually closer in relation to parameciums.
You seem to be off in your observations concerning women as well, which are a specific type of decorative plant.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Soylent Green is people too!!!

[IsolatedReptile]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Men are people...? Seriously, that's just stupid. Men are actually closer in relation to parameciums.
You seem to be off in your observations concerning women as well, which are a specific type of decorative plant.

You can be a smart ass but I actually appreciated this post.

[Rae Ven Rae]

Ah she's just funning-- and soylent green---uhmmm tastes like old people...lol...

Seriously though, I just wish we could all just learn to give and receive love as it comes at us, which is the long and short of what I am saying I suppose --

And thanks Isolated...

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by IsolatedReptile

You can be a smart ass but I actually appreciated this post.

And you can be really filthy and sweaty but I actually appreciate your musk.

Mmmmm musk.
Did you guys know that when a perfume says it's a "musk" that means it has deer juice in it? I mean, not anymore, probably, but that's what was in it.

[Rae Ven Rae]

Deer juice-eewwwwwwwwww

[IsolatedReptile]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

And you can be really filthy and sweaty but I actually appreciate your musk.

Mmmmm musk.
Did you guys know that when a perfume says it's a "musk" that means it has deer juice in it? I mean, not anymore, probably, but that's what was in it.

This is why I like you.

[Rae Ven Rae]

just what part of the deer does...the..juice..come...from.....

never mind...