Atheism - Page 5

Mir · 02-13-2007, 06:08 PM

He uses religion to justify everything. Abortions, gay marriages and the war in Iraq. After his failed "WMD rhetoric", he fell back on the, "Its us against the bad guys crusade". Which will soon be expanded to the War on Iran. Watch this space for further developments.

Vyusher · 02-13-2007, 06:21 PM

My response didn't post. I'm so sad.
All I really said was that "Atheists don't have to probe their philosophy unless they want to say they are absolutely correct and anyone who disagrees is incorrect." Essentially, it is opinion/personal belief and should be recognized as such until it has definitive proof.
That and that science doesn't make sense used in religious debates and vice versa, but I think I gave up hope by now on that.

ArtificialOne · 02-13-2007, 07:51 PM

Yes sadly idolatry... I need to invent a cool name for machine worship, Especially if I have my way...... lmao

Vyusher · 02-13-2007, 08:19 PM

Technotheism is already around, if that wasn't one of the wikipedia entries I made up as a hoax. It is so hard to remember, now. Alas and alack.

Drake Dun · 02-13-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyusher

Well, yes. I'm not arguing that we aren't here, I'm arguing that the odds were against that, so just arguing based on the odds isn't really valid.

Think about it this way. If you have a phenomenon against which the odds are not good, you would expect to see a lot of "misses", if you will, existing alongside it. For example, if I have a 100-sided die, and I have painted one side red to make it special, you would be surprised if you the die lying on a table with that side up, and you would be justified in suspecting conscious agency. But if I then zoomed the camera out and showed you that all around it there were a whole bunch of dice, most of them not showing the red face, it would stop seeming so special, right?

Now let's look at our "fine-tuned" Earth. Well, what we do indeed see is that it is surrounded by tons of stars with their own lifeless planets. Exactly what we would expect if we attributed life to chance. How about the universe? The "fine-tuning" of the balance between the strong and weak force, for example. Well... the newest theories which old themselves out as candidates for the Grand Unified Theory are suggesting that this is not the only universe...

There may be gods out there somewhere, but so far every time I have seen someone provide evidence, it turned out not to be evidence.

Drake

Drake Dun · 02-13-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

Hmmmm, it sounds interesting. But of course the government gets involved and screws things up. Is there anything they do not touch and mess with???

Okay, all I'm saying is, don't get Shinto from the authorities. Make sure the bottle says "100% fruit juice".

Drake

Drake Dun · 02-13-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Aside of those, how many more religions can you think are controlled by the government instead of the government being controlled by religion?

The words "controlled by the government" are too strong even for what happened in Japan or Egypt. However, if we water them down to something like "defined by power" or "entangled with government"... they apply to almost every major world religion. Certainly to Christianity and Islam.

Drake

Drake Dun · 02-13-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

What would you call machine worship?

Depending on what you mean by "worship", either "self debasement", or "original thought".

Drake

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 02-14-2007, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

Okay, all I'm saying is, don't get Shinto from the authorities. Make sure the bottle says "100% fruit juice".

Drake

Call me stupid but I have no clue what the hell you just said was about.

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 02-14-2007, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mir

He uses religion to justify everything. Abortions, gay marriages and the war in Iraq. After his failed "WMD rhetoric", he fell back on the, "Its us against the bad guys crusade". Which will soon be expanded to the War on Iran. Watch this space for further developments.

Exactly, it makes me sick. I mean I don't buy into that whole thing that God says we need to do this or we shouldn't do that. It's so stupid in my opinion.

bleedingheart344 · 02-14-2007, 08:49 AM

Umm, about religion in the government, not only do they still use religion anyway, they are taking away rights and stuff, it's deplorable, it's saddening, but it still goes on.

Drake Dun · 02-14-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

Call me stupid but I have no clue what the hell you just said was about.

Sorry. Sometimes I get carried away with trying to sound clever.

What I meant was, if you're going to look into Shinto, be aware that all of the "official" stuff, and the most readily available non-official stuff, will be about modern Shinto, which is the child of State Shinto. So I am advising you to dig into the history of it if you want (what is in my opinion) the good stuff.

Drake

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 02-14-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

Sorry. Sometimes I get carried away with trying to sound clever.

What I meant was, if you're going to look into Shinto, be aware that all of the "official" stuff, and the most readily available non-official stuff, will be about modern Shinto, which is the child of State Shinto. So I am advising you to dig into the history of it if you want (what is in my opinion) the good stuff.

Drake

Oh okay, thanks. I'll be sure to be careful of those things.

Godslayer Jillian · 02-14-2007, 01:24 PM

On the government using religion:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

He still uses religion either way.

Exactly. He's placing his beliefs in his manner of governing. Religion is controlling the government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedingheart344

not only do they still use religion anyway, they are taking away rights and stuff

Again: "use religion". Those biblical fundamentalists do not manipulate their religions to accomplish their goals. Their goal is simply to base this nation's values on what they sincerely believe.
Think about it. Are you willing to say that Bush is so cunning, and has such a Machiavellian mind, that this whole facade of 'conservative Christian' is just a charade to win votes?
No sir. Bush would never be that clever. He really believes what he says he believes. He's controlled, nay, whipped, by the biblical teachings he was spoon-fed since childhood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

"entangled with government"... they apply to almost every major world religion. Certainly to Christianity and Islam.

Yes. The Government and Religion are always entangled, but guess which assimilated which?

Mir · 02-14-2007, 04:05 PM

Blah! Religion to me IS a form of governance. And guess what came first...

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 02-14-2007, 04:24 PM

This is why we have the separation of church and state, now I wish someone would remind the government of that.

MollyMac · 02-14-2007, 05:28 PM

Remind them all you choose, but the government is senile with its own wants.

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 02-14-2007, 05:39 PM

True, but still, it aggravates me, and there is nothing I can do. Maybe I should get into politics, I'd probably be a very unliked politician though.

MollyMac · 02-14-2007, 05:43 PM

*snicker*... what politician DO you like???

I have come to my own conclusion that it is less the politicians elected than the amendments and laws you vote for.

Not certain if you are of voting age- even if you aren't- but the best thing to do is to watch the politicians for entertainment (nothing like an election year for mud-slinging good times...) and educate yourself on the issues. See what party falls best in line with what you see; the groups, moreso than the individuals, tend to lead changes.

It is all a coin toss, though.

Vote for propositions, not people. People will fail, propositions fail less often.

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 02-14-2007, 05:56 PM

I am not of the voting age yet, three more years. YES!!! But I do like to see what goes on in politics. And The only politician I like is Barrack Obama. (sp?) I think he would make an excellent President. Not that lying, backstabbing thing named Hilary Clinton.

Drake Dun · 02-14-2007, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

The only politician I like is Barrack Obama.

I have been away from the States for long enough that I don't know who that is, but I would vote for him based on his name alone. Does he have a 20mm rotary cannon where his left forearm should be?

Drake

Mir · 02-14-2007, 06:12 PM

It doesn't matter who you elect. All politicians are puppets, dancing to the tunes played out by their corporate masters.

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 02-14-2007, 06:12 PM

Not as far as I know, but I know he is against the war in Iraq and he's pro choice.

Godslayer Jillian · 02-14-2007, 06:32 PM

Mir is absolutely correct.
How can America have hopes for its government when its currency, that which holds it together, is pulled out of thin air from a privately owned banking system? (the Federal Reserved System)
The government only 'borrows' all those big bucks, and, as with any bank, it has to be given back with interests. Where does the government have any power then?

MollyMac · 02-14-2007, 06:36 PM

Just do yourself one huge favor. The mistake I made when I first voted (not that my little one vote made an impact, but I'm just sayin') is don't be a straight ticket or single issue voter. The shite they tack on to proposed legislation is madness, and usually unrelated. Figure out where you stand on a majority of the issues.

But at 15(?), that you are already interested and taking the initiative to read up on the issues for yourself is encouraging as hell.

Hell, I want Howard Dean back in the race, LOL!!!! But Barack Hussein Obama is an interesting individual. My hubby just picked up his book, "The Audacity of Hope", I should get to it next week.

Even Hillary doesn't bother me over much, my fear is that people will vote for her solely because she is a woman. I'd vote for her solely because it's fun to have a Clinton in the White House. :P

I'll have to see if the GOP puts up Condi or McCain, and then look to the Green Party before blowing my vote on a non-running Nader.