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Politics "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule -and both commonly succeed, and are right." -H.L. Menken

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Old 04-19-2007, 04:59 PM   #26
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I'll try and find the info on those scientists. I heard it on a radio station the other day.

The hurricane thing is interesting though. After Katrina allot of scientists spoke on how it'd get worse and worse as time goes on from global warming. I remember being in Bellchase , La as a kid and having much worse weather then than now.. and that was 84'.

I do think it's odd that scientists are predicting this huge warming thing when they can't acurately predict next months weather.

Let me try and research the info on the scientists... I think I heard it around 10am on 580am here in fresno, ca...
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Last edited by ArtificialOne; 04-19-2007 at 05:00 PM. Reason: bad spelling, bad grammar
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Old 04-19-2007, 07:03 PM   #27
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Did anyone watch this.. it's great! Don't ness believe it all, but better points were made by Newt than Kerry.. btw.. it's Kerry vs Newt G on climate change. Skip the first 15 mins or so.. it's just other people bs'ing.

Still researching the scientists claim on the hurricane thing.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...74520095835803
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Old 04-19-2007, 07:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark_dragon_of_ice
Global warming is like the earth has fever and is trying to kill off a disease it just caught called humanity=p .Just a day in bed for earth and then it will be all better.

Yeah, I've thought about it that way before as well. O_o;;
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:50 PM   #29
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Doesn't anyone find it slightly suspicious that all the big names that argue that it's NOT happening all are backed and paid for by the companies that most scientists claim are responsible for the process?

Like everything else, this discussion in the political world will sit idle until another great calamity occurs and a large number of people of are killed, then change will begin. It's sad in this day and age that it takes a large scale loss of life to get people to open their eyes to the world around them.

Problem is though in this case, there is a chance that what is broken cannot be fixed.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:10 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSternn
Doesn't anyone find it slightly suspicious that all the big names that argue that it's NOT happening all are backed and paid for by the companies that most scientists claim are responsible for the process?

Problem is though in this case, there is a chance that what is broken cannot be fixed.
Smells like a cover-up or they are just in denial of all this.

If we can't fix it, then we have only ourselves to blame.
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Old 04-24-2007, 06:10 PM   #31
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Conspiracy! Conspiracy!!!!!

OYG!!!!

Anyone with an opposite point of view is condemned as being payed off or a denier...

So much for that wonderful thing as free speech huh...
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:15 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtificialOne
Conspiracy! Conspiracy!!!!!

OYG!!!!

Anyone with an opposite point of view is condemned as being payed off or a denier...

So much for that wonderful thing as free speech huh...
Heresy!

Evil Halliburton crony!
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Old 04-25-2007, 02:52 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtificialOne
Conspiracy! Conspiracy!!!!!

OYG!!!!

Anyone with an opposite point of view is condemned as being payed off or a denier...

So much for that wonderful thing as free speech huh...
I take it from your use of the word 'denier' you are refering to the recent Newsweek article that came out claiming global warming wasn't happening, that had a caption saying the writer had no ties to big oil or the bush admin, then it was later revealed that this was 100% false - the writer was in fact working for the bush admin, had in the past, and was currently recieving large grants from big oil - Newsweek ran the story without every checking his credibility.

http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/041307EB.shtml

I mean, anyone can check the sources of articles from 'experts' these days and see who's been paying them.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...ichard_Lindzen

It's quick, easy, free, and a good way to see what articles you read from 'experts', really are from persons you should be listening to.

That is just one of many examples I could site on this. Find any article that claims global warming isn't happening, and you can bet that scientist is on the payroll of big oil or the bush admin.

Does that make me a skeptic because you (and everyone else) can't cite one source that doesn't have ties to big oils that can verify or back up their claims?

If it were in a different situation, say that scientists found that beef caused cancer, and the only scientists, a minority group even, that said this was not true were all paid by grants from McDonalds or directly worked for McDonalds, would you not think thats a little off?

I wouldn't called it skepticism, I'd call it realism.
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Old 04-25-2007, 05:02 PM   #34
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LOL!!!

Yeah, That pretty much sums it up...hehe
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:02 PM   #35
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Read this book, it's great. I bought it this weekend after I saw a book thing on cspan.

http://www.amazon.com/Politically-I...onmentalism/dp/

Here's another site with the actual video I saw.

http://www.booktv.org/program.aspx?ID=8503&SN=

I full heartedly aggree with this guy. The politicising of this issue has gone too far. The facts just aren't there. I'll be done with the book soon.

Ages ago I couldn't find anything on volcanoes causing global warming.

Well, here you are.

http://www.livescience.com/environm...reat_dying.html

Yep, US is all to blame...yep.. really <input sarcasm>

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/104/24/10288

Here's a cut and paste thing from another post about russian flag planting in the north poll. It's more relevent here.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:04 PM   #36
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I can't watch the movie... I'm already scared shitless...
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:12 AM   #37
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What you fail to address is that yes, the world is slowly warming up, however in the past 20 years the rate at which the world is warming has increased exponentially.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...Comparison.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:G...redictions.png

Arguing it's a normal occurance, what the bush admin has been trying to say since they took office is a half truth. It is happening, but on a much smaller scale naturally.

What we are seeing now is major shifts in worldwide climate changes. These changes have already wiped out thousand year old glaciers in a matter of months. These changes thawed the North Pole to the point where submarines were able to get to the land below the ice for the first time last week.

These changes, if left unchecked at the current pace, will cause global catastrophes in our lifetime.

As was pointed out in the film, the 'studies' that the bush admin and other right-wing pundits cite, were all commissioned by the oil industry. All independent studies worldwide show the opposite of what bush and his oil cronies have tried to show the world.

There is even a bit about this in the film. Have you seen it? Where they go through oil exec emails that lay out their plan to block those who want to change environmental procedures by saturating the media with false reports based on false conclusions.

As bush now says, he never says it isn't happening, he says it's a theory. Thats their tactic. It is a theory, the problem is the only way to see if its true is if you let the world environment slide to the point where all life dies, that is the only way to prove the theory true.

Those arguing against change want to 'wait' to see if the theory is true (readin: wait until there is enough public outcry because of worldwide destruction and catastrophe).

The other thing you have to take into account is this: environmental policies to stop global warming are good. Stopping pollution, using less energy, having a 'green' rated home that uses less energy should not be something the government fights. How can one argue that lowering your monthly bills is bad? Unless you are the one selling the energy?

How can you argue that taking steps to prevent a possible global catastrophe is a bad thing? I mean, even if they just believe its a theory they still have to realise on some level they take the threat seriously.

that means they are actively not protecting future generations, why? Because of money? Because rich oil execs don't want to lose shares in the market? We are letting the future of the earth be determined by the bank accounts of oil execs.

Businesses already face laws restricting how long they can make their employees work, the types of work, safety measures, etc. They fought tooth and nail to keep those changes from happening as well because that meant cutting into their bottom line.

This is nothing new, except for the fact we have oil executive now integrated into the political machinery of the government.

Every member of bush's team has ties to the oil companies. I mean, bush owned harkan oil, which later became delta oil when he partnered up with bin ladens brother. Cheny was former head of halliburton. Rice was the first black woman to have an exxon oil tanker named after her (both of her parents were also oil execs for exxon).

Even if you only think there is a slim chance that global warming is happening, that still means you believe on some level it is happening. To disregard that threat in todays world and allow the future of the world, and your children, to be place in the hands of oil execs, the same crowd who started an illegal war for oil disregarding the hundreds of thousands of lives that has already caused, well, seems a bit off.

In the end, we are talking about making life for everyone better with these changes. The only people 'fighting' it are factory owners who want to pollute, oil companies, who want to raise their stock prices by selling more, not less oil, and politicians who have millions of dollars on the line with their oil/big business lobbyists who pay them to look the other way.

Why anyone would want companies to pollute more, and not have businesses try and help the environment is beyond me.

Last edited by CptSternn; 08-08-2007 at 03:15 AM. Reason: forgot link
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