Newbie here.... - Page 2

Stormtrooper of Death · 04-05-2010, 08:24 AM

Welcome, big points for Motorhead and Iron Maiden, two great bands, I like you already. Cheers.

Tam Li Hua · 04-05-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

Tam, I think satanism is by and large stupid but its even more stupid to lecture someone who belongs to another religion that they are atheist when they are not. Its like some Buddhists insist that we are atheist, but I'm not one and its pretty ignorant to keep suggesting that. Thats a really personal definition and its only atheist in that it lacks a god but still believes in supernatural things, which most atheists also disbelieve in.

Its also not a atheist "philosophy", its an actual religion.

Geez, why are people getting so bent out of shape about this? I WASN'T SAYING HE COULDN'T WORSHIP AS HE WANTS!!! Rather, I was saying that, it's always been explained to me as basically a religion/philosophy for atheists. THIS DEFINITION WAS GIVEN TO ME BY OTHER LAVEYANS WHO HAVE STUDIED THE MATERIAL.

If dude wants to worship himself as a deity and call it Laveyan Satanism, then sure, he's allowed to...but he may be made fun of/blatantly corrected by almost all other Laveyans. He's free to be semantically wrong, but since I am obsessed with semantics, I felt the need for correction.

LIKE I SAID, I have yet to pick up Lavey's book or study in-depth about the religion, so OF COURSE I COULD BE WRONG.

Now that that's all over with, can we all please just move along? Unless someone has some actual material to prove me wrong, or is at least willing to not get bent out of shape about something I never said or meant to indicate, I'd like to end this particular conversation.

badteccy · 04-05-2010, 05:25 PM

Holy shit, aren't you on goth goose?

Saya · 04-05-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Geez, why are people getting so bent out of shape about this? I WASN'T SAYING HE COULDN'T WORSHIP AS HE WANTS!!! Rather, I was saying that, it's always been explained to me as basically a religion/philosophy for atheists. THIS DEFINITION WAS GIVEN TO ME BY OTHER LAVEYANS WHO HAVE STUDIED THE MATERIAL.

If dude wants to worship himself as a deity and call it Laveyan Satanism, then sure, he's allowed to...but he may be made fun of/blatantly corrected by almost all other Laveyans. He's free to be semantically wrong, but since I am obsessed with semantics, I felt the need for correction.

LIKE I SAID, I have yet to pick up Lavey's book or study in-depth about the religion, so OF COURSE I COULD BE WRONG.

Now that that's all over with, can we all please just move along? Unless someone has some actual material to prove me wrong, or is at least willing to not get bent out of shape about something I never said or meant to indicate, I'd like to end this particular conversation.

You are wrong, especially if you're talking to satanists who refer to it as an atheist philosophy when its a recognized religion. Atheist organizations don't get tax breaks.

Pineapple_Juice · 04-05-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altemese

LaVeyan Satanism was founded in 1966 by Anton LaVey. Its teachings are based on individualism, self-control, and "eye for an eye" morality, drawing influences from the rituals and ceremonies of occultist Aleister Crowley, and the philosophies of Friedrich Nietzsche and Ayn Rand. Employing Crowley's terminology, its adherents define Satanism as a "Left-Hand Path" religion and philosophy, rejecting traditional "Right-Hand Path" religions such as Christianity and Wicca for their perceived denial of life and, as in Christianity, emphasis on guilt and abstinence. Unlike Theistic Satanism, LaVeyan Satanism does not involve the literal worship of any being other than the self, but rather uses "Satan" as a symbol of carnality and earthly values, of man's inherent nature, in what it calls 'ritual psychodramas'.

Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.

In a way they are different. atheist do not believe in deities of any sort. But LaVeyan Satanism believe that the person ( who is ever a LaVeyan Satanism) are deities themselves. So in a way he is not a atheist. He views himself as a god. There for worships himself. Atheist believe there is no god, not even themselves.

Did you really just Google all that information?

Luv2H8 · 04-05-2010, 08:04 PM

She got it from here.

Pineapple_Juice · 04-05-2010, 08:05 PM

I know. That's why I pointed it out.

Tam Li Hua · 04-05-2010, 08:34 PM

I glanced over the Wiki article; it says that more sources for verification are needed, but meh.

I see where it says that Laveyan Satanism is the denial of all other gods and deities except for the self, but I always took it to mean more "I don't need anyone but myself, especially not some imaginary god!" rather than "Wow, I have magic creation powers! I AM GOD!!" I. E., I never took it to mean a literal worshiping of the self, as in you set up shrines to yourself, pray to yourself, and believing that you are a transcendent, otherworldly being.

Saya: I honestly don't see what tax breaks for non-profit organizations has to do with whether or not a religion is "real" or not. Most world religions existed long before tax breaks were even a thing, so...yeah; a bit confused there.

Saya · 04-05-2010, 08:42 PM

Its officially a religion, no "its a philosophy" bullshit, they consider themselves a full fledged church and religion. Besides, they practice MAGIC. I don't recall any atheist bus advertisements that said "There probably is no God. But there is totally magic. And lack of aesthetics is a sin."

Tam Li Hua · 04-05-2010, 08:56 PM

^ Never heard of Laveyans practicing magic either, but okay. As for magic, well, the next time I talk to the other Laveyans I know on the Internet about this, I'll be sure to ask them about this. =)

As for the rest....philosophy vs. religion, a religion only being valid if they get tax breaks, and the like...I just don't have the energy; this conversation has already exceeded my Weird Shit Allowance for the day, so I'm going to end it for now.

You're always welcome to PM me if you want to seriously continue this conversation. Or not. Whatever you want to do.

Saya · 04-05-2010, 10:23 PM

Magic is a very big part of Satanism. Perhaps you should do some research in addition to talking to random people on the internet.

A religion isn't only valid if they get tax breaks, but by doing so they acknowledge themselves and have the government recognize them as a religion with all the rights that come with a church. Atheist groups do not have such protection, nor do cults. So if the CHURCH Of Satanism (and that is its official name by the way) officially declares itself a religion and is recognized by the government as a religious body, then it is in fact a religion, not a random philosophy for misanthropic atheists. Its a religion for misanthropic wizards.