Study: Bush tax cuts making rich richer

CptSternn · 04-05-2006, 10:25 AM

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - President Bush's tax cuts for investment income have significantly lowered the tax burden on the richest Americans, reducing taxes on incomes of more than $10 million by an average of about $500,000, according to a report Wednesday.

An analysis of Internal Revenue Service data by The New York Times found that the benefit of the lower taxes on investments was more concentrated on the very wealthiest Americans than the benefits of President Bush's two previous tax cuts.

The Times analyzed IRS figures for 2003, the latest year available and the first that reflected the tax cuts for income from dividends and from the sale of stock and other assets, known as capital gains.

According to the study, taxpayers with incomes greater than $10 million reduced their investment tax bill by an average of about $500,000 in 2003, and their total tax savings, which included the two Bush tax cuts on compensation, nearly doubled, to slightly more than $1 million.

These taxpayers, whose average income was $26 million, paid about the same share of their income in income taxes as those making $200,000 to $500,000 because of the lowered rates on investment income.

Americans with annual incomes of $1 million or more reaped 43 percent of all the savings on investment taxes in 2003. The savings for these taxpayers averaged about $41,400 each.

The newspaper's tax cut analysis showed that more than 70 percent of the tax savings on investment income went to the top 2 percent, about 2.6 million taxpayers.

And the savings from the investment tax cuts are expected to be larger in subsequent years because of gains in the stock market.

Congress is now debating whether to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.

Stephen Entin, president of the Institute for Research on the Economics of Taxation, a Washington organization, told the Times that the tax cuts did not go far enough because the more money the wealthiest had to invest, the more that would go to investments that produce jobs.

Opponents told the newspaper the cuts are too generous to those who already have plenty. Rep. Charles Rangel of New York, the senior Democrat on the House Ways and Means Committee, said after seeing the new figures that "these tax cuts are beyond irresponsible" when "we're in a war; we haven't fixed Social Security or Medicare; we've got record deficits."

http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/05/news...ies&eref=yahoo

So any thoughts on this? This is nothing more than the exact same programme reagan implemented, which did not work. The 'trickle down' theory, based on defict side spending and tax breaks for the rich only proved to make the budget balloon and the economy crash. This is all based on keynesian economics, which have since been proven to be completely uneffective and only server to make the rich more rich. It took two presidents to undo all the damage this did the first time it happened. And now, it's happening at a rate that dwarfs what reagan tried to accomplish.

In fact, what I find most ironic, is George H. Bush first labelled this idea as 'voodoo economics' and promptly stopped all trickle down policies as he himself said they do nothing but damage the economy.

Now, just a few years later, his son has adopted the exact same policies and is using them to do to the economy what 'reaganominics' did the first time around.

Any thoughts, ideas, comments on this?

CptSternn · 11-18-2006, 04:45 AM

...will the tax cuts last? I would love to see this post do a 180 and bush have to eat crow as his beloved tax cuts for the wealthy get force fed back to him.

asta_tintora · 01-11-2007, 01:44 PM

Hm, interesting post. By god my economics is rusty, but in any case...

I think more to the point, the real pull of the economy will be busted by defecit spending. Social Security has been gutted by politicians for years and still hasn't been fixed. I think quite a bit of money is leaking out of the economy because of that.
Specifically for the tax cuts, I think they should have been a temporary measure. Most people seem to work on credit and with the value of the dollar falling, most people only use credit and since the dollar hasn't been as stable lately, less foreign investors will be looking to buy our debt. This means we can't set off our own debt in this manner.

Really, it isn't so much the tax cuts, as I think it is the left over Keyseian idea of short term spending to aggragate long term finances. Maybe instead of direct taxpayer, we should dump the old model in favor of a flat tax. (But I need to look into that more.) Hm, also, there is a greater need for more diversification in our industries. We need to find something we can export to start setting off the costs of our imports....

...Yep I need more coffee. Say, what do you think of things like the flat tax?

CptSternn · 01-12-2007, 03:26 AM

I'm not a fan of flat tax. I say people should be taxed on their earnings. Yes, those who have more pay more, but that equals out the distribution of wealth in the local economy. It also keeps the working man from picking up the bill of the born wealthy.

Those with more can pay more and not feel it as much. I'm not saying pay more than the same percentage rate than a person who makes less, but do pay at least a portion of your income that reflects an appropropriate proportion. Also the elimination of any and all loop holes. Setting up a PAC to look into helping sick kids in Africa for some politician and then donating millions so that politician can 'look into' the idea of possibly helping kids, then giving said politician those millions and the benafactor a tax break is a practice that needs to be stopped.

asta_tintora · 01-13-2007, 04:39 PM

True, but if I want to open an IRA it looks like I get taxed twice, depending on the IRA. One going in and then 6 or so percent going out.

But I do agree, the taxes on special interests is at times hogwash, but I really need to look into those laws, but more over for tax deductions on student loan interest.

For my happy Europeon trip I'm looking at a rising tuition count. >_> It is well work the money, but 40,000 with interest, is quite a pretty penny. (But that is beside the point.)

What interests me is the change in tax levels. Did the lowest taxable braket get taken down to 11,000k or raised to 14,000k? (It still might be the same because I managed to get money back only making 10,400k gross....) But eh.

CptSternn · 01-14-2007, 03:46 AM

Heh - student loans. Another great american scam. Did you know here in Ireland, britian, and most of Europe that we get free college tuition if we are accepted to a university? Thats right - if you are accepted and pass the entry exam, your government pays for your higher education. Also, if you choose not to go to college you get a second chance to take the entry exam when you are 23 and have the government pick up the bill.

If you unemployed and have been so for a number of months, the government allows you to pick a school, training course, or mentorship programme and they pay for that as well to get you started in a new career.

Which is why we have such a low unemployment rate.

Of course if america did that, who would be there to fill the ranks of their military?

asta_tintora · 01-14-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Heh - student loans. Another great american scam. Did you know here in Ireland, britian, and most of Europe that we get free college tuition if we are accepted to a university? Thats right - if you are accepted and pass the entry exam, your government pays for your higher education. Also, if you choose not to go to college you get a second chance to take the entry exam when you are 23 and have the government pick up the bill.

If you unemployed and have been so for a number of months, the government allows you to pick a school, training course, or mentorship programme and they pay for that as well to get you started in a new career.

Which is why we have such a low unemployment rate.

Oh no, I am quite aware of that, but I don't live in one of those countries, therefore, that situation does not apply to me. It is quite nice for people in other countries and might be something I wish to persue later on as a personal cause and try to see if I can do something about it politically.

As for unemplyment, Ireland stands at 4.3% (2005 est.), and the United States 5.1% (2005 est.), 12.5% official rate; Japan 4.4% (2005 est.), Jordan unofficial rate is approximately 30% (2004 est.)

Now, I would figure the US would have a lower rate of graduation. If you can find the rough estimates for degree fulfilment for various countries, I would appreciate it. Statistically though, I know Ireland, Jordan, and Japan have a higher rate from previous lectures in economics, history, etc.

Now then. Six percent is considered full employment, with the stat varying between cyclical unemployment, transitional umployment, chronic, and others. America, despite lower college performance, has full employment. Jordan does not. The rate of college graduates might help stimulate the economy, but you still have other factors. What industries are currently developing, resources, etc. (I think Ireland is getting a nice upswing in technological jobs now, right?) While graduates certainly help, it isn't the only figure. You also have to take into account on the job training and other programs.

As for the millitary, the reasons for joining can be as varied as anything else. I've had quite a few friends volunteer for the military. Some went for the educational benefits, a few went for idealogical reasons, others tradition, and a few because they needed time to focus on what they wanted to do. If you look at history though, armies in general do tend to be made up of the lower to middle classes, sort of the king has declared war so I'll take my serfs and we'll go have ourselves a lovely bloodbath.

Being that it is a volunteer army, conscription is not enforced thankfully, you do have a choice. I respect those that do join, but I know myself, that I could not handle the idea of post traumatic stress, life and death decisions, and the world view after one's participation in such actions.

I agreee with the Dhali Llama with peace being the answer, but I don't believe that any of our societies are ready to accept such an answer. Anyway, sorry for the long post. Interesting discussion.

ArtificialOne · 01-22-2007, 06:23 PM

Hm... thats funny stern since allot of my foreign friends from europe are over here working at resorts to pay for university. Also in Aus you don't pay unless you make over a certain amount of money then you have to pay back the amount....actually forced to since they take it out of your pay...kind of like child support. I question sterns motives since he "Hypes" up euro trash so much. I geuss being a failure in the us has jaded your opinion of the place. Besides the garbage that he usually spews... Here's an idea... whats more fair than a flat tax.. No matter what everyone gets the same %. Thats fair and no one can bitch since it's the same %. And change the laws so you only get taxed once on anything. I.E. Virginias new car tax.. that seems to keep going even though it's no longer new. And speaking of stern.. I just ran across allot of pictures of IRA propaganda thats still plastered everywhere....looks allot like the North Korean junk thats around..
I say stern Give up the fight and leave it be your beating a dead horse. You failed to live in the states and now you bash it every chance you get. You blame bush for losing your job... Did he personally fire you? Get over it. You have serious ptsd or something. Why don't you bring up problems that your precious Ireland or Europe has? We are all well aware of our problems but what about other countries?? If you want to keep bashing the us and it's people go f off. Your nothing but a hasbeen who didn't make it. Another disgruntled expat who failed. Get help and get on with life.

DarkHeartedDemoness · 01-23-2007, 08:22 AM

ArtificialOne, I enjoy your posts as much as the next guy, but do you want to put forth a little more effort to make your posts readable?

That whole "stream-of-consciousness" writing style is quite effective as a literary technique, but it generally doesn't do well in a debate.

ArtificialOne · 01-23-2007, 11:39 PM

Yeah I know... I've been moving the last couple of weeks so I haven't devoted my whole attention to my thoughts as I usally do.....

And now I'm in some funny town in Utah called Beaver..??? yes it's called that...and gas is 2.50 for regular!!!! It was 1.98 in Colorado....

CptSternn · 01-24-2007, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

Hm... thats funny stern since allot of my foreign friends from europe are over here working at resorts to pay for university.

Really? From where. Do they like it when you refer to them as 'euro trash'?

Quote:

Also in Aus you don't pay unless you make over a certain amount of money then you have to pay back the amount....actually forced to since they take it out of your pay...kind of like child support.

Australia? When did they enter the EU?

Quote:

I question sterns motives since he "Hypes" up euro trash so much. I geuss being a failure in the us has jaded your opinion of the place.

Failure? Hehe, I own homes in three countries and run a cadre of successful businesses. But hey, maybe by your standards thats being a failure. So tell us, what exactly make you such a success? The fact you can type without using the enter key or spacebar or the fact most of your posts have an excuse of why your tying is so poort, which usually has something to do with you getting a pizza out of a microwave.

Might I add, microwave pizza, once again, your tastes are impeccable. Can't even type as ones fine gourmet is beepinig for yer attention. Classy fellow.

Quote:

I say stern Give up the fight and leave it be your beating a dead horse.

So rallying against the Iraq war is a 'dead horse'? I do admit now it has become quite passé as with the republicans in congress now taking the chance to rally against the war as well, but until the war is officially over, I will be posting about it.

Quote:

Why don't you bring up problems that your precious Ireland or Europe has? We are all well aware of our problems but what about other countries??

Quote:

If you want to keep bashing the us and it's people go f off. Your nothing but a hasbeen who didn't make it. Another disgruntled expat who failed. Get help and get on with life.

Hah - seriously, what are you - twelve? You want to be a big shiny robot because your friends in school making fun of you?

ArtificialOne · 01-24-2007, 07:25 AM

What makes me a success... Well, I make my one way without the govt paying my way( which is what you want "socialism"). I geuss having a good savings account, owning everything I have outright is a bad thing?

And as far as being twelve? Don't you read anyones pro? Or home page? Probably not.
I'd love to be twelve again. Especially today since there's so many more toys around.

Face it. Your an angry failure. You'll make shit up to make you look good. Your probably some lame telemarketer with to much time on your hands. Get a life. The fact that you have to try and justify yourself with "I own three houses" proves my point...please thats something angry selfish teenagers say. How about you go to the huffington post or something, I'm sure theres more of your "kind" there for you.

"Stick and stone may break my bones, but whips and chains excite me"

DarkHeartedDemoness · 01-24-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

Face it. Your an angry failure.

Gosh, why does that seem so funny? Oh, yeah. The hypocrisy.

ashleyxnicole · 01-24-2007, 12:21 PM

What a douchebag. I watched him address the nation last night and it was a bunch of bullshit cover up, lies.

DarkHeartedDemoness · 01-24-2007, 01:30 PM

I loved the part where he said "This administration stands behind its promises."

Wasn't there a poll recently that said that Bush only kept 33% of his campaign promises? I love that he was just blatantly lying.

ArtificialOne · 01-24-2007, 09:35 PM

I ? all pres promises.. Carter, reagan, bush1, clinton1, bush2, clinton2?..... So many promises so few kept.....

And how am I an angry failure demoness??? I'm quite happy, in fact I just got a better paying job and moved cross country??? Why would I be angry and where have I failed??? Oh crap I know!! I never got that one GI joe I wanted when I was a kid and it haunts me today!!!!! Damn those childhood atrocities!!!

CptSternn · 01-25-2007, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

I ? all pres promises.. Carter, reagan, bush1, clinton1, bush2, clinton2?..... So many promises so few kept.....

And how am I an angry failure demoness??? I'm quite happy, in fact I just got a better paying job and moved cross country??? Why would I be angry and where have I failed??? Oh crap I know!! I never got that one GI joe I wanted when I was a kid and it haunts me today!!!!! Damn those childhood atrocities!!!

Actually, you yerself stated you had money problems and your mommy and daddy bailed you out.

Funny thing, then you followed up with a statement saying 'and the government didnt have to bail you out'. Personally, I'd rather my government work FOR me and help me when I need it, instead of my parents, as that would make for a better society. Those without silver spoons would be screwed under your policies.

That being said I spot two broken down cars and the obligatory double wide trailer in your MySpace pictures. I think everyone stands corrected on their angry failure statements made here.

Your happily living in the lap of luxury as a beacon of professional light in whatever field it is you must be currently working. What is it? Food service or local grocer?

CptSternn · 01-25-2007, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkHeartedDemoness

I loved the part where he said "This administration stands behind its promises."

Wasn't there a poll recently that said that Bush only kept 33% of his campaign promises? I love that he was just blatantly lying.

My favorite going back a year 'I promise if anyone in my administration had anything to do with the Plame leak they will be fired'

Then turns out cheney & rove leaked it, and nothing has happened.

But if you want to see an even better example of bush lying...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHB_NRIojho

The clip from the Daily Shows segment 'Bush vs. Bush' which has bush making campaign promises, then as president making direct opposite contradictions.

Like his statement on 'nation building'. CLASSIC.

ArtificialOne · 01-25-2007, 07:49 AM

First off only one broke down car (which I fixed myself since I sent myself to tech school).... it was was $200.00 for 91 vovlo? Not to mention the motorcycles, Bronco, 1967 Galaxie500 in great shape. And the trailer... try living and working in a National park....It's a great experience that I would love to do again, but I'm settled down now.. .

And of course I had money problems as a teen.. who doesn,t have money problems as a kid. And no, no one helped me.... Well maybe if you take my parents advice of not blowing my money all the time I geuss they did.

I geuss you have a problem with people helping themselves and making their own way........

DarkHeartedDemoness · 01-26-2007, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

I ? all pres promises.. Carter, reagan, bush1, clinton1, bush2, clinton2?..... So many promises so few kept.....

And how am I an angry failure demoness??? I'm quite happy, in fact I just got a better paying job and moved cross country??? Why would I be angry and where have I failed??? Oh crap I know!! I never got that one GI joe I wanted when I was a kid and it haunts me today!!!!! Damn those childhood atrocities!!!

You're happy, but you're spending your life getting pissed off at internet people and typing unintelligible bullshit at them? You're happy, but you have to overpunctuate your posts with emphasis on how much a post by a girl across the country can effect you?

Hun, you're not even going to win an internet argument. Particularly if you keep making such shitty posts. Half the time you don't make any sense at all, and the other half of the time you're just completely wrong.

DarkHeartedDemoness · 01-26-2007, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

I geuss you have a problem with people helping themselves and making their own way........

I helped myself and am currently making my own way, and guess what? I can do so without being an asshole, a moron, or a weasel. Hmm... So it is possible.

ArtificialOne · 01-26-2007, 08:36 AM

Is that all? How pathetic.....
And also hypocritical......

DarkHeartedDemoness · 01-26-2007, 08:59 AM

Really? YOU want to talk to ME about hypocritical?

Child, please just go and play with your dollies. Let the big people do the talking.

Cyntrox · 01-26-2007, 09:44 AM

ArtificialOne, you've lost... Run for it while you still can!

Also, what was this thread about?

ArtificialOne · 01-26-2007, 11:44 AM

DO you have a hard on for me or something d?
I mean really. You blast me for such stupid shit it's unbelievable. I have a life beyond this website and friends, etc. I'm just here for entertainment. But apparently you think I'm here to bash you.

The statement about making my own way was directed at the "Cpt" not you. Just like the satement about his screen name. So stop being so ate up with yourself. Not everything is directed, or about you.

I just have a problem with the capt's continued trolling about the US.
I'm entitled to my opinions just as you are about yours.

So go get a shot if your old enough and relax. It's all entertainment baby.