Rant Thread

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Younger folk usually react less maturely to life situations than, say, a 30 year old normally would [or should, rather].

Also, in general, 14-year-olds don't have a great deal of life experience, and typically think they have the answers to the universe. But, the older one gets, the more one realizes how little one knows about...well, everything.

Plus they have that super-charged hormone thing going on. My last therapist even said that because of all the dramatic hormonal changes, teenagers could technically be referred to as 'temporarily insane'.

Doesn't make teens bad or anything; just one of those life things everyone has to live through..

Yeah, I get all that.
I'm not a fucking idiot.

Here's the thing--GENERALLY. USUALLY. SOMETIMES.

You can't judge people based on GENERAL assumptions.
You seem to think it's ok, which is why everyone here thinks you're an ass.

[JCC]

How about instead of working on generalisations, we work on individualism, noticing a person's faults and merits.

Unfortunately Tam, you're all fault and no merit.

Also, what's this about 'life experience', and why are things that you've experienced which I haven't (which I'm going to take as things like working, paying bills etc.) relevant to any sort of discussion about prejudices?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Wow, this conversation fails entirely.

The age thing... we can all agree is stupid. JCC is one of the smartest people I've known and he's five years younger than me.
Older people are not better. The only thing they have is experience, and experience means shit when life scenarios are entirely different.
In this specific discussion, age means nothing. The social construction of gender roles is not better understood by living longer. A college student that has taken one miserly sociology class knows more about all this than a forty-year old could even understand. The forty-year old will only know what affects him and think that's how it works.

A perfect example of this is the stupidity of saying men don't express their emotions, implying women do.
The cliché male does not use soft words, is aggressive, holds emotions back, is stoic, is physical... let's forget for the sake of the argument that several of these traits are contradictory between each other.
Well then, the cliché female is vindictive, holds grudges, is passive aggressive, deviates energy from stress into superfluous homely activities, is territorial, and clinically depressive.

Way to healthily express one's emotions. Good job!

Also, it angers me to no end when people confuse sex with gender. We're in the twenty first century! It should be common knowledge by now!

[Tam Li Hua]

JCC, Ophelia, et. al.:

I would be happy to answer both of you [JCC and Ophelia], but this is not the place to expound my thoughts further. Therefore, if either of you [or anyone else] wish to continue it, feel free to email me at tamlihua@mindless.com. If you do not so wish, then that is fine as well.

Peace to each of you.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

JCC, Ophelia, et. al.:

I would be happy to answer both of you [JCC and Ophelia], but this is not the place to expound my thoughts further. Therefore, if either of you [or anyone else] wish to continue it, feel free to email me at tamlihua@mindless.com. If you do not so wish, then that is fine as well.

Peace to each of you.

Yeah, a public forum really isn't the place to converse with others.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Yeah, a public forum really isn't the place to converse with others.

I don't mind conversing. I don't mind discussing or even debating. But I'm tired of arguing.

The offer to email and continue the discussion is still open, if you want it. If not, then it's just as well.

[JCC]

If I were to email you, nobody would see my responses, and I'll be the first to admit that the basis of most of my actions is to showboat. If I emailed you, it would be pointless as far as my agenda goes.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by JCC

If I were to email you, nobody would see my responses, and I'll be the first to admit that the basis of most of my actions is to showboat. If I emailed you, it would be pointless as far as my agenda goes.

Ah, gotcha. Carry on then.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Arguing is not going to happen if it's privately?
What if we want to know too? Why should we miss out on an argument that is supposed to be objectively consistent merely because the players in it are only interested in their whim for maintaining their opinions steadfast?

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Arguing is not going to happen if it's privately?
What if we want to know too? Why should we miss out on an argument that is supposed to be objectively consistent merely because the players in it are only interested in their whim for maintaining their opinions steadfast?

I guess you'll just have to email too, won't you?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Dude, honestly, by what logic do you want us to believe you're more mature than us when you can't make an argument without being condescending?

We choose not to email you because we have nothing to hide. There's no need for our words not to be read by anyone else. We actually choose to be held responsible for our opinions.
If you don't want to discuss in public... well, then you wouldn't have started arguing (fallaciously) from the beginning.
I can't help but feel this is more of an attempt to withdraw and still keep face than to actually pitying us and making yourself available to our doubts.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

The age thing... we can all agree is stupid. JCC is one of the smartest people I've known and he's five years younger than me.

Sometimes I get scared thinking about how badass JCC is going to be by the time he's my age. I'm pretty sure I wasn't as sharp as he is when I was 14.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Sometimes I get scared thinking about how badass JCC is going to be by the time he's my age. I'm pretty sure I wasn't as sharp as he is when I was 14.

I'm probably going to be really disappointing, working at McDonalds reading Harry Potter and drinking alcopops, I take Tam Li Hua as a reference point for age meaning the stagnation of anything good.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by JCC

I'm probably going to be really disappointing, working at McDonalds reading Harry Potter and drinking alcopops, I take Tam Li Hua as a reference point for age meaning the stagnation of anything good.

Yes, maybe you'll 'cross over' like in that movie Baby Geniuses.

[JCC]

"Two scientists, Dr. Kinder (Kathleen Turner) and Dr. Heep (Christopher Lloyd) use genius baby studies to fund their Babyco theme park. At age two, the children are due to 'cross over', learn to talk, and forget their universal knowledge. One mischievous toddler, Sly, makes repeated attempts to escape the "Kinder" lab and one night, he actually succeeds. What Sly does not expect is to run into his twin, Whit, in a mall playground. Although Sly and Whit share a telepathic bond, they have no idea of each other's existence. While the guards from the lab capture Whit, mistake him for Sly, and take him back to the Kinder lab, Sly is taken home by Whit's adopted mother. After Dr. Kinder discovers the mix-up, she decides to do a cross evaluation on the twins. However, when she comes to Bobbin's Place, she realizes that Dan Bobbin can understand babies. After the attempts to retrieve Sly fail, Dr. Kinder decides to move the labs to Lichtenstein. The babies at Bobbin's Place hypnotize Lennie, the bus driver to drive to Kinder Labs. Once at the labs, Sly goes to the control room to set the robots from the theme park on the lab scientists. When the Bobbins return home, their natural daughter Carrie tells her father that the children are in the Kinder Labs. At the end of the fight Dr. Kinder captures Whit and takes him to the helicopter pad on the roof. Robin and Dan Bobbins chases them to the roof. Dr. Kinder gives Whit to a man on the helicopter. Dr. Kinder and Dan fight. Dan falls and hits his head. Robin fights Dr. Kinder. In the fight Dr. Kinder reveals that they are not related, but that Robin was adopted at age two. Just then police helicopters come. Sly and Whit come together on the roof to cross over. Some time later Dan awakens with his memory intact. He wants the secrets of life, but as the twins have crossed over they no longer know those secrets. Carrie, their sister, reveals that the secret of life is love."

Holy shit, that is one of the weirdest movie synopses I've ever read.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by JCC

I'm probably going to be really disappointing, working at McDonalds reading Harry Potter and drinking alcopops...

I think you'll turn out fine, JCC.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Dude, honestly, by what logic do you want us to believe you're more mature than us when you can't make an argument without being condescending?

I never said I was more mature. I know I'm not much of the time. But I -am- easily annoyed by younger people who think they know everything.

I thought I knew everything 10 years ago too, and I got my ass handed to me in a handbasket by Life. I feel more like I'm turning 50 than turning 30. :/

We choose not to email you because we have nothing to hide. There's no need for our words not to be read by anyone else. We actually choose to be held responsible for our opinions.

I'm glad that you have nothing to hide. I don't either. But, many folks here seem to dislike my opinions. I don't mind if folks disagree, but calling me names and acting juvenile just because you don't understand what I'm saying is not cool.

Why not try to understand what I -am- saying instead of looking for ways to be offended all the time? Seriously, life's too short to spend it being so angsty.

As for the email thing, I felt that the conversation had gone beyond what the purpose of the rant thread was for, and so I wanted to move it into a different realm. If we were talking over email, and you wanted to tell others what I said, then feel free. I don't care. I'm just tired of arguing and defending myself when I haven't done anything wrong. :/

If you don't want to discuss in public... well, then you wouldn't have started arguing (fallaciously) from the beginning.

I was trying to encourage Nightmare, originally. Then, somewhere in the process, someone wanted to turn what I said into an argument that wasn't there. I defended myself. End of story.

I can't help but feel this is more of an attempt to withdraw and still keep face than to actually pitying us and making yourself available to our doubts.

Well, you are free to your opinion, even if it's wrong. I'm honestly just tired of arguing, and am trying to get you guys off of my back.

Seriously, just let it go. Let. It. Go.

[Solumina]

I just want to point out that this whole big thing comes down to Tam saying something that really is true, although not terribly well put. On average men are much more likely to develop problems due to unresolved/suppressed emotions because there is a lot of social pressure for them to appear strong, and in the eyes of many people showing sadness, expressing regret, and showing fear are all seen as being weak.

[JCC]

The thing is that it's not true, or at least not at all justifiable. Until Tam Li Hua analyses every second of every man's life in the area that she's generalising against, be that the world, America or just her city, town or village, there's absolutely no way to back up the stereotype apart from "Hey, my friends do it." Yeah, great, if my friends were to grow wings every fortnight it still doesn't mean that I could justify saying that everyone grows wings. It's a stereotype because it's impressed on people because of a certain property, like their gender or their race, but if Tam Li Hua said "IT'S JUST DEM N.IGGERS *spit* DAT CAIN'T COMMOONICATE THER EMOTUNS" then you wouldn't be defending her position.

[Solumina]

I didn't say that I was defending anything, I was just saying that you all got pretty bent out of shape over her saying something that is true. What I said can be found in just about any sociology book that has any information on modern western culture, as well as a good number of psych books, it has been studied and analyzed by a ton of experts.

[Tam Li Hua]

Solumina is right on both accounts. I admit, I probably didn't put my thoughts down as accurately as I could have, but this stuff -has- been researched to death and been proven.

I never said it was right, or that it's the way things should be; in fact, I said the exact opposite, that men should have the freedom to express whatever they are feeling in healthy ways. If I was unclear before, then I apologize.

[JCC]

I'm not contesting your opinion on the supression of emotion. I'm contesting your flaunting of a stereotype as fact.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by JCC

I'm not contesting your opinion on the supression of emotion. I'm contesting your flaunting of a stereotype as fact.

It's stereotyping to say that the majority of the male population in Western society have a difficult time not suppressing their emotions? Even if there is plenty of research to back this up and that I said that it's not good or healthy or even indicative of all males? Or is it more that you simply disagree?

I apologize for presenting something as fact by using only the males I've known as examples. I thought it would help, but it seemed to make things worse. Yet, I'm sure if you researched it, that you would find this to be true. However, if I'm wrong, then I will happily admit it.

As it is though, I present the following example:

My best friend's husband is a wonderful guy, but when he gets stressed or upset, he gets headaches and becomes more sarcastic instead of talking about it and getting it off his chest. Now I love both of them to death [platonically], but I would not say that this is a healthy way for him to deal with worry and stress. I have noticed the headache phenomenon in a number of male friends who become stressed or worried, but rarely have heard of them talking out how they feel or anything like that. They're still great guys and all, but I have to wonder if it's because of the stereotype that they don't feel they can express their emotions openly.

But, like I said...I could be wrong.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

It's stereotyping to say that the majority of the male population in Western society have a difficult time not suppressing their emotions?

YES! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS! You've never met the entirety of the male western population and you've certainly not gone into detail of their mental state and personality so how can you have any sort of basis for such a presumption beyond it being what YOU think is happening based on the actions of people YOU know.

If you had said 'I think, from what I have experienced from conversing with friends, that men in Western society are institutionalized into suppressing emotion', that would've been fine. Saying 'most of the men in the West suppress emotion, it is true because my friends are like it' is stupid, unfounded and flaunting a non-verified conclusion as gospel.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by JCC

YES! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS! You've never met the entirety of the male western population and you've certainly not gone into detail of their mental state and personality so how can you have any sort of basis for such a presumption beyond it being what YOU think is happening based on the actions of people YOU know.

If you had said 'I think, from what I have experienced from conversing with friends, that men in Western society are institutionalized into suppressing emotion', that would've been fine. Saying 'most of the men in the West suppress emotion, it is true because my friends are like it' is stupid, unfounded and flaunting a non-verified conclusion as gospel.

But this idea has been backed up by scientific journals. It -is- fact. And I thought stereotyping was saying that all of a certain group were a certain way, not most or the majority, which even if the majority only amounted to 51% of the population, it would still be the majority.

Either way, don't you think this is a bit too much reaction for something like this? Why not respond with a simple "I disagree, and this is why" instead of jumping down my throat? I'd be much more likely to listen to you and see my mistake if you behaved maturely and reasonably than if you attack me for what I see as little to no reason at all. :/

Seriously, when you react this way, what reason do I have to listen to you at all? What chance do you have of changing my mind?