Complain about the opposite sex here!

[XXChristabelXX]

no. you seem dismissive. I seem educated.

[Godslayer Jillian]

You don't seem educated by assuming that the price Duane was referring to was getting *****.
I myself thought that Duane was referring to knightmare's post. If you look like a slut, and you're conscious you look like a slut, how can you be mad that someone would merely look at you?
The woman is objectifying herself, yet there's absolutely no fault in her if she's objectified?
EDIT: My last sentence is not an implication of ****, if anyone read it like that. **** is not about looks. The objectification of women does not imply ****.

[XXChristabelXX]

She may not be conscious of her objectification because of social and cultural mores, she may see her attire as slatternly, in which case the fault lies with the person objectifying her needless because of thir own take of culture and clothing and what renders a woman a slut

[Godslayer Jillian]

So in your scenario, the victim is ignorant while the attacker takes advantage of social mores for his own gratification?

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

You don't seem educated by assuming that the price Duane was referring to was getting *****.
I myself thought that Duane was referring to knightmare's post. If you look like a slut, and you're conscious you look like a slut, how can you be mad that someone would merely look at you?
The woman is objectifying herself, yet there's absolutely no fault in her if she's objectified?
EDIT: My last sentence is not an implication of ****, if anyone read it like that. **** is not about looks. The objectification of women does not imply ****.

I think Xombie's interpretation of the post was influenced my Duane's suggestion, in a different thread, that women are semi-responsible for ****.

[XXChristabelXX]

More like perception versus perception. She may think she's dressed conservatively, he may think she's dressed slutty. You cannot infer that because you think she is dressed provocatively that she thinks she is and in doing so is wanting to be looked at as such.

[Dark Clarissa]

Originally Posted by XXChristabelXX

She may not be conscious of her objectification because of social and cultural mores, she may see her attire as slatternly, in which case the fault lies with the person objectifying her needless because of thir own take of culture and clothing and what renders a woman a slut

Slatternly - LOVE that word!!!

Not sure how this thread ended up about r.ape...

Anyhoooo...I can't complain about the opposite sex any more or less than I complain about my own sex. But the lines are too blurred anyway. Is this about gender or sexual orientation, or both, or...actually I really don't give a fuck anymore! There are arseholes wherever you look. There are good people wherever you look. Just depends on who happens to get in your line of view at any given moment. Meh!

[JCC]

Well, I love women and would identify myself as a feminist, so this thread seems pointless.

As for the "by wearing revealing clothes, they are encouraging ****!" argument, that's bullshit. If I see a woman with a nice figure wearing a miniskirt or something, I think "Wow, she has a beautiful figure." I don't think "Wow, I can't wait to physically subdue her and then violate her."

[Dark Clarissa]

Originally Posted by JCC

Well, I love women and would identify myself as a feminist, so this thread seems pointless.

As for the "by wearing revealing clothes, they are encouraging ****!" argument, that's bullshit. If I see a woman with a nice figure wearing a miniskirt or something, I think "Wow, she has a beautiful figure." I don't think "Wow, I can't wait to physically subdue her and then violate her."

Ah! But you see, you think logically. Whereas mindless, misogynistic pricks don't think logically. Because r.ape is about power not sex.

[Duane]

I meant some women, not all of them.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Duane

I meant some women, not all of them.

Bullshit. No woman should be held at all accountable for **** on the basis of clothing, demeanour or anything else. Women are finally feeling free and liberated within themselves and their bodies, and it's been coming for long enough. If some dunderheaded prick who can't show respect for people, let alone females, decides that he has the right to violate her, then the woman cannot possibly be blamed by anyone who's not a thundering loony.

And I don't think that women objectify themselves when they dress revealingly. Some women like to look and feel beautiful. For some women, that's about comfort in themselves and for others it's about feeling appreciated or wanted. I am on good terms with a lot of girls, and most of them I have had some sort of sexual interaction with of some kind, that's not objectification. It doesn't make them sluts, or whores. They're having fun, capitalizing on their youth while they can and I have seen confidence flourish from just one person appreciating them for who they are. To say that women bring **** on themselves is absolutely disgusting.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Hey Duane, THE PAST called, it wants its views back.

[Xombie]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

You don't seem educated by assuming that the price Duane was referring to was getting *****.

Based on a collection of Duane's posts throughout the past few days, on other boards as well as this one, I do think the price he spoke of is being *****. He's been tossing out the idea that if women dress scarcely, they are partly to blame for it.



I'm assuming that this:

Originally Posted by Duane

I meant some women, not all of them.

is a response to JCC and/or Ophelia, in which case Duane is still an asshole. "Oh, don't get me wrong, only SOME scantily clad women deserve to be *****, not all of them."

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Hey Duane, THE PAST called, it wants its views back.

Bahahaha.

At first I was like, "Is this guy the lovechild of Fred Phelps and Abu Hamza or something?"

Now I just think his ideas are stupid.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by XXChristabelXX

you come in sand?

I'm all about friction.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by JCC

the "by wearing revealing clothes, they are encouraging ****!" argument [is] bullshit.

How about their objectification because of their clothing?
Let's forget about **** and talk about the fact that men see a scantily clothed woman and they have thoughts, and these do not imply ****, but merely sex. They express these thoughts through their eyes even if they don't want others to know they have thought about them, and the woman sees him, and she is disturbed, angry, or even disgusted at this man.
Christabel's argument only works at the most twice for it to be a good argument. If a woman sees that there's a pattern between her clothing and the looks she gets, then why is this different than what we always say about goths that we are the ones dressing this way and if we don't want to be looked at weird, we shouldn't dress like this?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

How about their objectification because of their clothing?
Let's forget about **** and talk about the fact that men see a scantily clothed woman and they have thoughts, and these do not imply ****, but merely sex. They express these thoughts through their eyes even if they don't want others to know they have thought about them, and the woman sees him, and she is disturbed, angry, or even disgusted at this man.
Christabel's argument only works at the most twice for it to be a good argument. If a woman sees that there's a pattern between her clothing and the looks she gets, then why is this different than what we always say about goths that we are the ones dressing this way and if we don't want to be looked at weird, we shouldn't dress like this?

I put forward my thoughts on that earlier;

Originally Posted by The Radiant, Splendid, Magnificent JCC

And I don't think that women objectify themselves when they dress revealingly. Some women like to look and feel beautiful. For some women, that's about comfort in themselves and for others it's about feeling appreciated or wanted. I am on good terms with a lot of girls, and most of them I have had some sort of sexual interaction with of some kind, that's not objectification. It doesn't make them sluts, or whores. They're having fun, capitalizing on their youth while they can and I have seen confidence flourish from just one person appreciating them for who they are.

Because of that, there's two sides to dressing that way. Some women want to feel appreciated as beautiful, or attractive in a non-sexual sense, others want to be appreciated in the sexual sense. To be appreciated sexually is not to be an object, it's to be appealing. The only person who can really objectify a woman is the misogynistic male.

The ones who don't want to be appreciated sexually AND the ones who do usually get annoyed at old men perving on them, and quite understandably, because that's not the attention that anyone would want, in the same way that if I dress in a way that I think looks good, I would like for women that I find attractive to find me attractive. I don't want to be winked at by a saggy old booze hound.

[Duane]

I never said any woman deserved to be *****, I said that there was a chance of it happening.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by JCC

The ones who don't want to be appreciated sexually AND the ones who do usually get annoyed at old men perving on them, and quite understandably, because that's not the attention that anyone would want, in the same way that if I dress in a way that I think looks good, I would like for women that I find attractive to find me attractive. I don't want to be winked at by a saggy old booze hound.

And probably a goth just wants nice compliments from his flamboyant or dated outfit. Where's the consistency?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

And probably a goth just wants nice compliments from his flamboyant or dated outfit. Where's the consistency?

Where's the point? People can wear flamboyant/dated outfits if they want to, I don't care and neither should anyone else.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I'm pretty sure that when a new guy comes here and whines about how people treat him differently, you're one of the ones that say that if he doesn't like how they treat him because of his looks, he shouldn't dress like that.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

I'm pretty sure that when a new guy comes here and whines about how people treat him differently, you're one of the ones that say that if he doesn't like how they treat him because of his looks, he shouldn't dress like that.

No, I remember what you're talking about. I told him that he should vary it a little, because obviously some people are going to find it weird, in the same way that I said that women wearing revealing clothing are thought of sexually sometimes when they don't have that intention. It doesn't mean that I agree with it, just that you have to accept that it happens, and that Goths in exactly the same way as women can wear what they want freely, it's people that treat them differently as a result. Hence, if someone said "Does dressing Goth encourage people to treat you badly?" I'd say "No, that's up to the person."

P.S. Sorry that my points are kind of meandering into the other with very little direction, I'm tired.

[Dark Clarissa]

Originally Posted by Duane

I never said any woman deserved to be *****, I said that there was a chance of it happening.

Yeah...and there speaks an oblivious person!!!

Wake the fuck up dick-head!

There's chance it could happen every time a woman walks out her front door no matter what she's wearing. Shit, as a woman, there's a chance it could even happen inside her own fucking home, asleep in bed.

Sometimes dickwads like you really fucking piss me off! Making inflamitory remarks and then fucking backtracking when you realise you may be talking shite!

Oh and before you make the, "what the fuck do you know?" remark, I'll like to tell you that as a thirteen year old school girl walking home in broad daylight wearing NORMAL UNSLUTTY clothes, a sixteen year old shithead tried to **** me. I'm now 38 and I'm fucked if any total KNOB is going to tell me what I can or can't FUCKING WEAR!!!!!!!!!!!

And if anyone notices the change of tone to my posts, please note that I'm like the worm that turned. I've had enough of the posturing bullshit that stupid arses come out with that know fucking nothing.

[Duane]

I apologize for the fact that what I said was in ignorance.

[Dark Clarissa]

I accept your apology and thank you for being a big enough person to say it. You've seriously gone up in my estimation, because so many people on this site seem to be so intransigently stuck with their opinions.