Rap Music

Demonista_Ravenesque · 09-09-2005, 10:06 PM

Yes, that's right it's a thread about rap music... I don't know whether to put this in Whining or Music, but I think it should be put in music because I believe rap is still considered as music, There is something deep inside me that makes it necessary to ramble about this.

Always...I mean ALWAYS, I hear people, especially those in the gothic community, complain about rap, and say incredibly nasty things about it, saying how pointless it is, saying how untalented it is and how it shouldn't even be counted as music. Emphasis on the last part.

In my opinion...Rap and Rock have quite a few similarities, like if it's on the radio...it's usually just rubbish without any talent, written for those with a simple taste in music and those who like it *catchy* , if it's 'Old School' then it'd be more original than the modern version of it, and if it's underground then it'd be rather interesting and fresh.

It puzzles me why people actually say that it shouldn't be counted as music...Just because they simply don't like it, I mean, I don't like classical music but I would still count it as music.
There always seems to be his huge feud between Rock an Rap, both sides are completely against each other and they always claim the other side is "completely talentless"...More to my opinion, I think that Rap should still be considered as music, just it's focusing more on the beat and experimenting with it, while rock experiments more with layers of sound. And as for the lyrical content, most rockers (and goths) believe it's nothing but random rhymes put together that don't even make sense.... I reckon that they have just heard the mainstream stuff...on the radio that have made them assume that their lyrics are pointless...but if you have listened to Tupac Shakur, The Roots and The RZA, they are truly poets of the modern world...Although they don't use the most complicated vocabulary, it's still extremely talented, because it does take alot of skill to make colloquial language sound powerful.

I know starting this thread has a risk of even more people hating me...even the newest of the new people may turn their backs on me and despise me more so than they do now, just a small message to TEAPOTSCAR This thread, is one that had no intention of getting purposely flamed whatsoever, however, if I do get flamed, it's probably just about people hating me for who I am...But this is a topic that I needed to speak out on.

And I'm out

tekajo · 09-09-2005, 11:21 PM

Even though this is about rap music, i think it should be in whining...i mean, really all you are doing is whining about rap music, ay?

As for myself, i listen to some rap. ZRo, Lil Flip, and some South Park Mexicans. Alot of this new shit though...all they want to talk about is their wheels or getting high.

pitseleh · 09-10-2005, 01:16 AM

It really annoys me when people say hip-hop (and electronic music in general) is not "real" music. Just because it's not made with guitars and acoustic instruments (though there are exceptions) doesn't make it any less valid as an artform. Also, the people who diss rap and electronica do so based on the mainstream versions of said genres they have been exposed to, which is usually limited to the lowbrow "bling, guns and hoes" type shit that gets pushed on radio and TV. If they bothered to dig a little deeper, they would find a huge amount of quality stuff on underground labels like Anticon and Def Jux with real poetic and musical value that seldom or never gets airplay.

Just consider the lyrical talent and fresh beats of acts/artists such as Aesop Rock, The Perceptionists, Sage Francis, El-P, cLOUDDEAD, Dose One, Why?, Immortal Technique, MF Doom, Quasimoto, Jean Grae, Murs and countless other underground players. I dare any intelligent person to listen to one or more of these and say it has no artistic merit. You can't, unless you're too dumb to fathom the intricate wordplay of the lyrics (which may take several listens) and the relevance they have in relations to modern life. Very often the lines these people spit are far more incisive, personal, funny and poetical than much of what passes for "rebellious" rock or whatever these rap-haters listen to. I listen to all types of stuff, regardless of genre, as long as it's quality.

My point is, it's no use putting fences around your musical tastes in a misguided attempt to protect some flimsy personal identity construct. You gotta open your mind to the fact that the expression of feelings and opinions you can relate to can come in any musical guise.

It doesn't make any sense to denounce the emotional gravity of someone like Johnny Cash, for instance, just because it falls under the category of country/americana. I understand how the musical framework can be alienating if you're not accustomed to it, but I believe that if you can let your guard down and get into the lyrics and general atmosphere of something, the music will grow on you eventually.

Not to play up to any stereotype, but if all else fails, try rolling a fat joint and put on Aesop Rock's "Daylight" or Buck 65's "463", for instance. See if that doesn't get your braincells going all free-associative...

punkirony · 09-10-2005, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonista_Ravenesque

There always seems to be his huge feud between Rock an Rap, both sides are completely against each other and they always claim the other side is "completely talentless"...

Okay...not always. If you watched the VMAs, my boy Diddy (A.K.A. Sean Combs) pretty much praised My Chemical Romance for their talent. He also invited them to perform for the audience as a special surprise treat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonista_Ravenesque

I know starting this thread has a risk of even more people hating me...even the newest of the new people may turn their backs on me and despise me more so than they do now, just a small message to TEAPOTSCAR This thread, is one that had no intention of getting purposely flamed whatsoever, however, if I do get flamed, it's probably just about people hating me for who I am...But this is a topic that I needed to speak out on.

I don't hate you. I get the point you're making. I myself am not a fan of rap. It's mainly because this new crap on my sister's stereo. But, you seem like a very open minded and intelligent person.

And my little Teapot just might get you. Try not to take it too personally. Once you get to know her, she loves you like a little bunny rabbitt.

Peace out to all my bitches and hoes! (Hehe. I couldn't resist

)

Fenris · 09-10-2005, 03:17 AM

It seems to me that rock came (through a very long line of evolution) from classical European music. The Europeans on tone, arrangement, and harmony, which all eventually appeared as main themes in rock. Rap however has very obvious roots in African tribal music. Rap/Hip Hop is built on a strong beat with (usually) minimalistic instrumentals and lyrics are treated more as spoken story told in line with the beat. So trying to say that one has more artistic merit than the other is something like trying to say that German symphony has more artistic merit than Nigerian drum and rythm music. My point is that they came from completly different places and cultures and you can't really compare or demean one with respect to the other because they simply aren't the same.

Disfunction · 09-10-2005, 05:06 AM

Music is a beautiful thing. If someone will rap about something, and utilize good lyrics, I will consider it music. Otherwise, it is just a song.

That is, of course, simply my personal view.

Spazik · 09-10-2005, 10:09 AM

My least favorite music of all time.

TeapotScar · 09-10-2005, 11:43 AM

They're still calling ICP "music"? Damn.

And to you, little Demonista... calling me out by name- HA! You're an annoyance.

But I listen to some rap... whatever.

dreamydancer · 09-10-2005, 05:42 PM

Gross just what I needed to see today, two fucktards in lame ass clown makeup. They look incredibly stupid beyond words.

punkirony · 09-11-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeapotScar

And to you, little Demonista... calling me out by name- HA! You're an annoyance.

*Laughs*
Demonista, I told you so!

Teapot, my darling, you're getting a bit soft on the newbies. Are you feeling okay sweetie?

1TOOMANY · 09-13-2005, 07:59 AM

I like any sort of rebelious music, especially with a thumpin beat and good rhyming skills. Rap is expression of urban strife. I definatley appreciate it! But from a muscians standpoint unless they have a band you can't compare talent instrument wise.
So it is what it is.

Loy · 09-13-2005, 11:55 PM

"If it doesn't have an instrument"? Ummmm.....let's see, there's the fact that turntablists have turned turntables into instruments themselves, along with samples, beats, mixes, and of course, there's always the human voice. You're actually going to say that these aren't instruments?

As far as instruments, NWA used to pull out the bass and drumkits back in the day, and there are plenty of rap acts that have used "instruments" in their performances (there's the Roots, the Fugees, Mos Def....).

Again, it's not an "it is what it is" scenario, but an "it is what I'm used to it being" one.

1TOOMANY · 09-14-2005, 06:49 AM

I love hip hop. All I'm saying is you can't compare NWA to Slayer, because it's two entirely different types of music. It would be like saying "that Michael Jordon is way better than Michael Vick"
I was just saying you can't compare a talent of a DJ to the talent of a guitarist, it's two totally diff. instruments.

And it is what it is meaning they're two completely diff types of music. I actually like hip hop in it's original form without instruments.

pitseleh · 09-14-2005, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TOOMANY

I was just saying you can't compare a talent of a DJ to the talent of a guitarist, it's two totally diff. instruments.

Actually, both instruments involve finely controlled and coordinated movements of the fingers and wrists, so they're not technically all that different, although they are not the same physically.

1TOOMANY · 09-14-2005, 10:03 AM

OK, I understand they both take alot of coordination, (having done both myself, I have two SL1200's and a numark, and I also play guitar and bass)I'm not arguing any of the above statements.
But I would like to point out that Stevie Ray(If he was still alive) couldn't just get behind the wheels of steel and cut it up like Terminator X.

pitseleh · 09-14-2005, 10:11 AM

Heh, Stevie Ray Vaughan as a turntablist, now that would be something.

And you have two SL1200's?! Man, I'd like to get my hands on one of those...

soggypicklemuncher · 09-14-2005, 10:17 AM

I have respect for anyone who can express his or her feelings and thoughts in words and music. This inlcudes rap and any other kind of music that exists. However I do abhor rappers like 50 Cent who just want to get rich and rap about how rich they are.

It's disgusting. If a rapper became successful and spent his wealth improving poor black communities, he would probably not stay famous as long as one who owns 8 hummers and lives in a mansion. Caring about other people just isn't glamorous, I guess.

soggypicklemuncher · 09-14-2005, 10:20 AM

Responding to something I missed in the first post:

I actually had The Roots in mind when I was making my first post. I listened to an interview with a founding member on NPR recently, and he was a very intelligent person who had loved music since early childhood. Writing, composing, playing instruments to make your music is what it's all about.

1TOOMANY · 09-14-2005, 10:45 AM

"And you have two SL1200's?! Man, I'd like to get my hands on one of those..."

I'd have to knock the dust off them, I haven't cut it up in years!

Jakadi · 09-21-2005, 10:21 AM

Everone around us likes rap becuase:
They were flipping through the channels and saw a hot chick/dude.They stoped and watched the video on MTV.It got in there head to were they wanted to buy the CD...so the bout it...then they see a new video..it gets in the head of children and it BRAIN WAHSHES THEM!And if to you think Im posting just to joke IM NOT!Wach MTV...a rap song will get in your head for a month to the point you want to buy the CD.And wonder why everyone is turning from cool people to EMO FAGS???MTV plays Emo video's...I like MCR Because of this.The goverment wants there people to be this and that.So they do it thru music.Rap sucks and the people who like even know that but the goverment has fucked with them so bad they are blind and cant say anything.DO WATCH MTV,MTV2,Fuse,CMT,AND NEVER WATCH C-SPAN...thats were they get adults to follow Hitler...Oops..I meen BUSH!

(-$|N-) · 09-21-2005, 10:26 AM

Quote: