What make history ?

[HumanePain]

Sometimes is it sensationalism that makes history.

Some event happens, like Obama elected as president, and it is reported in the news, and those news articles are preserved, thus becoming history simply by the passage of time.

[$haDe]

I used Corpsey's 'human'.

I got 3.5 out of 5.


Knowing that it's not related, I used Jillian and Filth 's Winner write history and lost a mark with that.
My teacher gave me a big 'off-topic'.

The guy I tried to beat used that as his topic sentence,too. He got 1/5 'cos it's not what the question asked.

[$haDe]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

History was written by the winners.
But that's gradually changing with the diversification of information and the internet..

Gawd!! Everyone I asked keep saying that Winners write history.

History is not all about war !!

There're establishment of system, people inventing something useful, discovery of something they didn't know.. etc..etc.. etc..

War is just something instantly and significantly affected people or people prefered to recognize it be'cos they putting their efforts fighting for something.

It was such a subjective fact.

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

The cost of this, however, is an apparent decrease in legitimacy of everything. But this is actually an illusion. That which was given no legitimacy before can now be a matter of conversation, and that which had full legitimacy before is finally being questioned, as most of us know one side will never tell the truth about the other side.
It only becomes costly to those that preferred convenience, not to those that took skepticism as a priori for any piece of information they lear.

Reminded me of other common schools in my country. They don't actually support or teach the student to question things.

It's very sad.

EDIT : I'm sorry if you find all the above hard to understand. I'm a bit hurry.

[Despanan]

If Gothicus would FUCKING STAB HIMSELF with that knife I mailed him, we would both make history. Internet History.

I'm still waiting on that bag of gold.

[I Am Great.]

If Dali was a write, he would have wanted to have written this thread.

[I Am Great.]

Well, he was, too, but you know...............

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

He's dead. Thank goodness. I don't know how many more melting clocks he could have made

[I Am Great.]

[Smashes you with keyboard]............................

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA

[Mr. Filth]

Shade, if you had listened to me and Jillian you would have gotten at least a 4.5/5. In the future, take our word for it when it comes to these things. We are smarter and wiser than you.

[Corpsey]

He said he used the arguments you suggested and it cost him marks and the teacher claimed he was going off topic.

Something tells me the question he was asking us was a lot deeper than "what makes history".

[I Am Great.]

Oh, wait, he said "What MAKE history"! Paper, ink, and sometimes cardboard, and now history is on the Internet, too!

[Corpsey]

Ugh...

$hade, write the question the teacher asked you to do in Thai and I'll translate it.

While you do, ponder this:

Mai mai mai, mai?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Mr. Filth

I already said that in so many words, Jillian.

Yeah, but I wanted to put more emphasis on the idea that today, it's not just the winners who can write history. An example is wikipedia.
We all know we should distrust wikipedia as a primordial source, but we also know it's quite accurate and the fact that it can be checked and doublechecked by anyone and everyone gives it more accuracy, not less. It's people that are accustomed to the monolithic centralization of valid knowledge into the american academia that distrust wikipedia; and I'm not even talking about the teachers and scholars themselves - at least in my experience more professors like the concept of wikipedia than dislike it.

However, $hade still don't understands the concept of history begin written by the winners.

Originally Posted by $haDe

Gawd!! Everyone I asked keep saying that Winners write history.

History is not all about war !!

$hade, we keep saying it because it's true.
History is not just about war, we know that. How does that affect the fact that history is written by the winners?
The most powerful DEFINE reality.
Let me give you some examples in American history:

- When America fought against England, only a third of valid Americans actually wanted to fight for such an 'independence.' Valid Americans excluded women, slaves, and indentured servants, making the amount of people that 'fought for liberty and democracy' about a fourth of all the people in the country. Hardly a democratic endeavor. That's not what they teach in textbooks where we fellate George Washington, the first president and richest man in America back then.

- When the country of Chile became democratic socialism by democratic process, private American interests hold an almost monopoly on copper in that country, and America sent troops and supplies to the counterrevolutionaries within the government and put military dictator Augusto Pinochet and his junta in power. His level of corruption, conservatism, and corporatism were to the point you could compare him with Francisco Franco.
However, text books mention we fought for the freedom of a country that was becoming Marxist and was "oppressing a third of its people" - let's remember that this oppression of a third of the people in Chile refers to the economic setbacks that the wealthy began to have when the other two thirds of the country finally got a more just salary by collectivizing their industries and pushing for land reform. Our president can win for a margin of 53% against 46% (almost half of Americans aren't content), and yet a two thirds majority vote in a non-capitalist country 'oppresses' one third.

- We fucking hate communist china, they're evil atheists! they were this close to being part of the axis of evil if we didn't depend on their products so much.
And yet we basically gifted them Tibet. America was training Tibetans in guerrilla warfare so that they could fight for their sovereignty. Yet Nixon wanted better relations with China, so Henry Kissinger agreed to stop training the Tibet and accepting the Tibet as a legitimate territory of China.
And thought we read about how the Tibet should have sovereignty, rarely do we read just how much of Tibet's current situation is our own fault.


If you're not content with those examples because they're still about war, let me give you one that happened AFTER the American War of independence:

- The English were supposed to have given us burdensome taxes, so we began pretty much vandalizing their mercantilist endeavors and boycotting their products. They put more taxes, so we go to war.
There 'overwhelming' taxation was one fourth of the amount English citizens themselves paid. And when the war ended, the people in America were taxed EVEN MORE than the English to pay for the war!
So what was the point of fighting for them? They went off all the worse. But when we even have to memorize the Stamp Act, and the Molasses Act, which were the terrible taxes the English crown gave Americans, we really don't hear of why the Shays Rebellion was so popular among common people.

[Mr. Filth]

^^ That's exactly why I didn't emphasize what I was trying to say. Your words are falling on deaf and ignorant ears, Jillian. You are talking to Shade here. Shade. Even if you do spell every inch of it out for him he's still going to be confused and ignorant. You are practicing in futility with that post. It isn't going to sink it.

[mindless1]

History is something that is shared, it is diverse as well as it is made common knowledge: current events, events of the past, and etc.
No one can write history, history is a record of things that occur- history cannot be changed or rewritten and still be correct. True history needs no textbook, true history evolves over time.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by mindless1

History is something that is shared, it is diverse as well as it is made common knowledge: current events, events of the past, and etc.
No one can write history, history is a record of things that occur- history cannot be changed or rewritten and still be correct. True history needs no textbook, true history evolves over time.

You just contradicted a contradiction.

[Mr. Filth]

I can't wait for shade to get back

"This not being what make history i think.

that maybe they teaching this? Not really. HAHA! ^_^"

[Sir Canvas Corpsey]

Sometimes, it would be nice if you stopped beating on $haDe.

[Mr. Filth]

I fail to see what's so appealing about him. He's just as worthless as Necrophagist and Unimatrix as far as I can tell. He misses the point to any intelligent remark, can't defend himself, and has nothing to offer. Even without the broken English, It's like conversing with an infant. Why should I not beat on him?

[Mr. Filth]

I bet he was scheduled to give this presentation a week ago and was too busy cosplaying to work on it. So the day before it was due he came here to try and leech off of us. Now he blames Jillian and me for his low score.

Yeah. He totally doesn't have it coming when it arrives, does he?

[I Am Great.]

He needs to man the fuck up. He's not a kid.

[Sir Canvas Corpsey]

He doesn't always miss the point, sometimes I think he finds it difficult to express what he means because he is still learning the English language, not that, that is an excuse, I'm by no means absolving him from his less contributive posts. Much in the same way, I do not absolve you from your trash and troll posts because you can be funny or make good points in other posts.

The difference between him, Uni and Necro is rather simple; he has good intentions and while that might not mean much to you, it separates him from the blatant trolling of Necro and the violent nature of Uni (who claims she has good intentions but never seems to present them, rather she just creates fantasy lands where everyone is happy so that she is accepted).

I don't remember $haDe ever being anything but nice and willing to learn more and ask for help.

That is why I think you should not beat on him.

[I Am Great.]

But...... But it's FUNNY!

[Mr. Filth]

It's more than funny. It's necessary. You're right to know good intentions don't matter to me. Too much of history itself is written in the good intentions of naive and ignorant men. I also think that the barrier between Shade and others extends far beyond a language barrier.

I find his 'kindness' to be an insult to people of intelligence. There is nothing behind the facade of his childlike disposition. Nobody is that nice and means it. I give to charity and do volunteer work. That is being a good person. Acting like a silly, prepubescent twat at the age of manhood on a goth forum is not.