Not-a-Goth Goth

[JCC]

I read through your entire opening post with my mouth open and a sheer look of disgust, and I'm not even exaggerating for the internet, I really did.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Exactly.

Never have I been so unhappy to hear my thoughts confirmed.

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

You're right, and because of this, as you can probably observe, goth is certainly suffering. It's a bummer, but somehow when this subculture is gone I think the world will keep spinning.

Of course the world will keep spinning--time and tide wait for no man. But...who says it has to be that way? Who says that goth has to be an immovable, inflexible subculture? I think that, if goths want to keep their subculture alive, they'll open their minds to the concept of new, different flavors of goth.

After all, who makes the subculture? The people who identify with that subculture. It's the lack of flexibility on the old-schoolers' parts to accept the new and unfamiliar into the tightly-knit definition of the subculture that causes the subculture to grow stagnant. If they can allow themselves to allow that other things besides what they hold as canon.

As sort of a related tangent, it sort of reminds me of the zealous indie music listeners. They hoard their indie bands greedily and use them to mock others who don't know their favorite pet bands... Then, if one of their favorite bands goes "mainstream" they end up ranting and raving about how their band "sold out" and how the new fans aren't "true" fans. But, what are the other options?

If their pet bands didn't get popular with the mainstream audience, they'd most likely break up--or, at the least, give up making albums. Very, very few purely indie bands are still in "indie" status and still making records. Very few.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by JCC

I read through your entire opening post with my mouth open and a sheer look of disgust, and I'm not even exaggerating for the internet, I really did.

Having read quite a few of your posts throughout the site, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Now, though, you know better than to read any of my posts and, to aid in the efficacy of your reading of the threads, you can scroll right past mine. Isn't that wonderful? -smile-

[Necrophagist]

Another genius! Things are certainly going up in the world!

[Necrophagist]

JCC - you listen to slipknot. I look upon you with the utmost horror!

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Necrophagist

JCC - you listen to slipknot. I look upon you with the utmost horror!

Meh. I went through the whole 'tr00 and kvlt metal only' phase, it was completely and utterly unrewarding. As soon as I started branching out musically, I began to appreciate Slipknot more. They're hardly a favourite band of mine, but they certainly have merit. I'm seeing them in December, but that's only really because it's something to do rather than some sort of undying devotion to the band. I'm seeing Nile, Grave, Belphegor and Omnium first.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

But...who says it has to be that way? Who says that goth has to be an immovable, inflexible subculture?

Me. Want to make something of it?

After all, who makes the subculture? The people who identify with that subculture. It's the lack of flexibility on the old-schoolers' parts to accept the new and unfamiliar into the tightly-knit definition of the subculture that causes the subculture to grow stagnant. If they can allow themselves to allow that other things besides what they hold as canon.

Everything considered 'goth' by the traditional definition is good, or at least sits comfortably on the higher end of mediocre, and, consequently, 'goth', by the traditional definition, is awesome. If shit like Slipknot, Evanescence, Nightwish and Marilyn Manson come to be accepted as goth, then, sure, there might be more goths, but the awesomeness of goth itself is diluted and has been compromised. I will FIGHT TO MY LAST BREATH to prevent that from happening.

You shouldn't lose heart, though, as what I want for goth is far less likely to come about than was you want for goth. We already have 'gothic-industrial', 'Cybergoths' rocking out to shitty EBM, and chain stores selling a caricature of goth to lonely teenagers as a 'dark' identity, so cheers.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Me. Want to make something of it?

Sure. Let's get together and make an antique quilt, made up of scraps found from the original Goth era. At least, that way, it has a chance of lasting longer--and it may even keep you warm on cold evenings. -grin-

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Everything considered 'goth' by the traditional definition is good, or at least sits comfortably on the higher end of mediocre, and, consequently, 'goth', by the traditional definition, is awesome.

Awesome to all goths? What about the ones who were, hmm, Origigoths--for lack of a better term--and didn't like the music of that time?

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

If shit like Slipknot, Evanescence, Nightwish and Marilyn Manson come to be accepted as goth, then, sure, there might be more goths, but the awesomeness of goth itself is diluted and has been compromised. I will FIGHT TO MY LAST BREATH to prevent that from happening.

How can it possibly matter what music is considered goth? Is goth centrally and inextricably related to music and only 80's post-punk/inspired music? I thought it was more of an aesthetic, a way of looking at the world, a way of...being.

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

You shouldn't lose heart, though, as what I want for goth is far less likely to come about than was you want for goth. We already have 'gothic-industrial', 'Cybergoths' rocking out to shitty EBM, and chain stores selling a caricature of goth to lonely teenagers as a 'dark' identity, so cheers.

As for what I want for goth...I want nothing for it, really. I begin to think that goth isn't at all what I thought it to be. If it's based on a very specific type of music--music that I very well may dislike--then, it's not for me. If, however, it's about a way of viewing the world...that holds my interest.

By the by, you're starting to sound like those indie hoarders. -grin-

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

Is goth centrally and inextricably related to music and only 80's post-punk/inspired music?

Yes. That is EXACTLY what it is.

[Necrophagist]

JCC - do you know Graveworm?

Gothicus - EBM is not really that bad - ESPECIALLY in comparison to Marilyn Manson.

[HumanePain]

Well! Congratulations Wynneth! You have navigated the fatal maze know as GothicusMaximus ...and lived! Incredible to see him post a half dozen times in the back-and-forth and not launch a single direct insult at a newbie! Either he was in a rarely polite mood or you are his peer!

Thinkers such as you are a welcome asset to our community! I hope to read more of your posts.


Welcome.

[JCC]

Yeah, I've heard Graveworm. Melodic Black Metal's a pretty decent idea, but I wasn't too big on their delivery of it. They're competent, but it's not really my style. I either like my Black Metal to be Minimalist and Ambient and depressing like Nortt, Xasthur, Lurker of Chalice, Abruptum, Blus Aut Nord etc, or bombastic like Gotherfall. And then obviously just the Black Metal portion like Immortal, Darkthrone, 1349, Zyklon, Gorgoroth, Enthroned, Emperor, Dark Funeral, Carpathian Forest, Nattefrost. I absolutely hate Burzum though, I think it's boring as hell.

EBM is okay. Combichrist are far and away the best of the bunch, the rest that I've heard was all pretty mediocre, even the supposed respected bands of the genre.

[Necrophagist]

Dark Fortress is good black metal.

Have you heard Combichrist live? - not good.

[JCC]

I've not really listened to Black Metal in a while, or any Metal really. I really ought to start getting back into it.

I've seen a video of them performing Red live that seems alright, but I can see how it would easily fall apart. Combichrist aren't great by any means.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Well! Congratulations Wynneth! You have navigated the fatal maze know as GothicusMaximus ...and lived! Incredible to see him post a half dozen times in the back-and-forth and not launch a single direct insult at a newbie! Either he was in a rarely polite mood or you are his peer!

Don't sell GothicusMaximus short. He may yet find cause to take issue with me, beyond the fact that I'm not OrigiGoth. -grin-

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Thinkers such as you are a welcome asset to our community! I hope to read more of your posts.


Welcome.

Thank you very much for your warm welcome! It's appreciated, as are your compliments. -beam-

[onedarkly1]

Welcome...it is always nice to see such thoughtful, educated people on the board.

_________________________________________
"I stand, staring hungrily into the black, it is here, where others fear death, that I come again to life."

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by onedarkly1

Welcome...it is always nice to see such thoughtful, educated people on the board.

-smile- Thanks. It's nice to be appreciated.

[Duane]

Welcome to G.Net.

[Wynneth]

Thanks, Duane. -smile-

[onedarkly1]

Just out of pure curiosity,why do you list yourself from 'State of Disgrace?"

____________________________________
"I died a long time ago."

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by onedarkly1

Just out of pure curiosity,why do you list yourself from 'State of Disgrace?'

Hmm. It was an impulse. I think it's just that I like the sound of it. The concept of having fallen from grace is also somehow strangely appealing. Now, let's analyze why it's appealing to me...

It's a gloomy outlook on life and, certainly, that appeals to me. But, when I really sat and thought on it, it's also a sort of vague reflection of how I see myself, my own flaws.

There's something, a personality trait--or, perhaps, an element of the soul--that I greatly desire... But, due to who I am and how I evolved as a person, I am denied that trait, in my opinion.

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

Hmm. It was an impulse. I think it's just that I like the sound of it. The concept of having fallen from grace is also somehow strangely appealing.

Ah, like the song 6 Underground by the Sneaker Pimps. I like it.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Ah, like the song 6 Underground by the Sneaker Pimps. I like it.

-laugh- Unintentional, though I do enjoy that song.

[Invisigoth69]

Yeah. I guess I can fall under that "NOT A GOTH" heading as well. I do not claim to be part of ANY movement or sub-culture. I am just ME and that's it:

http://www.myspace.com/mujer_extrana

[Pantherlette086]

Hello there! Welcome!