Jena 6

CptSternn · 09-21-2007, 05:48 AM

So, anyone not know about this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six

Thoughts? Opinions? Me, I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion, and that what is happening is a farce.

Don't get me wrong, I in no way support making racist statements or using racial epithets. That being said, if someone does make a racial slur or uses a symbol to epitomise a racial slur, that is wrong.

That however is not illegal. White supremacies, black supremacists, any group that falls into this category can legally hold rallies, marches, etc.

The KKK still has rallys and marches in the south. The national front has HUGE rallies each year in DC. They fly racist banners, flags, and worse.

This doesn't give anyone the right to attack them, no matter if you agree with them or not.

If the 6 blacks in this case who attacked a white kid because he hung a noose from a tree walk, that sets a dangerous precedent. Ironically, you would think the civil rights leaders there would acknowledge this. I mean, if it becomes 'ok' to attack someone who does something to disparage you or your race, then you make it ok for people to assault others because of what they say or believe.

White man says he hates blacks and hangs a noose in a tree - six black guys hunt him down and beat him unconscious and they don't get arrested.

Next thing you know a black man uses the word 'cracker' or 'peckerwood' and six white guys can now legally hunt him down and beat him.

It opens the door to legalised, vigilante beatings based on what someone says or implies.

At the end of the day, the white kids did something that is morally repugnant, but not illegal. The black kids assaulted him - physically beat him - they knowingly broke the law because they were 'offended'.

Last time I checked you can't break the law because someone offends you. If they do change this and make that law, then think of all the people in this forum alone I can hunt down with my mates and beat because they made anti-Irish statements...

...but thats my take.

delicti · 09-21-2007, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Thoughts? Opinions? Me, I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion, and that what is happening is a farce.

Wow, I actually agree with you on this. Schools tend to hide radicalism of all kinds in the name of "free speech," even when that speech is obviously hateful. When it comes to assault and battery though, it's something a school can't simply sweep under the carpet.

The Jena 6 should have known better that raising things to the level of gang violence would have gotten them in prison; it's just amazing that the civil rights leaders in this country have stooped so low to try to make something out of this.

As far as people complaining that the DA pushed for too harsh a sentence - come on people, that's what DA's do. Anyone who's cooperated with one (or had to defend themselves from one - I've done both) knows that they go for the biggest punishment possible, and hope that something sticks. That's SOP, and has nothing to do with race.

LadyLucretia · 09-21-2007, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delicti

As far as people complaining that the DA pushed for too harsh a sentence - come on people, that's what DA's do. Anyone who's cooperated with one (or had to defend themselves from one - I've done both) knows that they go for the biggest punishment possible, and hope that something sticks. That's SOP, and has nothing to do with race.

According to the article I read in either Time or Newsweek, white students attacked a black student and were given probation and community service. But when the black students attacked a white student, they were charged with attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, and all sorts of trumped-up charges for an extremely similar crime. The "deadly weapon"? Their sneakers. There is a 17 year old kid sitting in jail over this while a bunch of white kids who did basically the same thing got off scott-free. If that's not an abuse of the criminal justice system, I don't know what is.

I don't like to think that racism is still alive and well in the U.S., but sadly there are places where it is still institutionalized. There are high schools that only recently started having integrated proms, so things like this aren't as unbelievable as one might think.

MaverickZero · 09-21-2007, 11:13 AM

Then raises the question, why don't the civil rights leaders attack those who are segregating and such, and praise those who are being indifferent?

The simple answer, is that they don't want to show any good to their crowd in earshot. They want to show that they are political martyrs, and this is the result.

I'm not racist myself, and I'm often mistaken for a "white man". Being native, I don't really mind. However overall, I believe there have been great strides towards race relations for those outside whom have come in.

The african/negro community seems very unappreciative of the efforts made of those who are actually trying, and more fixated on demonizing everybody because of a select group that are still convinced the south won the war.

I have a number of racially different friends, Jamaican, African, Asian, Venezuelan, and I know most of them admittedly use their stereotypes to exort what they can out of some situations. Whether it be at work, at the department store, they play the race card when they believe it can benefit them.

Hell, being native myself, I have the ability to not pay taxes, hunt freely but I choose to respect the empowerment given to me, and act like a normal citizen, instead of overly abusing the system.

LadyLucretia · 09-21-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaverickZero

I have a number of racially different friends, Jamaican, African, Asian, Venezuelan, and I know most of them admittedly use their stereotypes to exort what they can out of some situations. Whether it be at work, at the department store, they play the race card when they believe it can benefit them.

I don't know what to say to this - I'm sorry your friends have such a lack of character? But you can't make a blanket statement about minorities based on just your group of friends.

delicti · 09-21-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyLucretia

According to the article I read in either Time or Newsweek, white students attacked a black student and were given probation and community service.

I'll have to look into it more then, the news sources I saw just mentioned some incident of the white students hanging nooses off a tree when black students asked if they could hang out there. It's still something that should have brought some sort of legal harassment to spook the kids at least, but it made the whole incident with the assault sound out of hand.

If there was assault prior to the retaliation, then both groups should have been held responsible. I'll look into it a little more, I guess.

Aaroneet · 09-21-2007, 02:11 PM

I do think that the Jena 6 story has been blown a bit out of proportion; however, any story evoking racial tension is going to be blown out of proportion simply because of the history it brings to surface. Does it make the rulings any more just? We are told that justice is to be "blind". We must then blindfold the proverbial justice by taking cases like this and solely base our judgments on what took place, instead of letting our emotions hamper our judgments. But history resurfaces easily, and that's easier said than done.

TopHaggardDoll · 09-21-2007, 06:42 PM

I didn't know this was going on until now. This is all stupid and those kids all need a slap upside the head. Honestly, it's 2007 and people are still acting like this!?

I'm not meaning to sound rude or anything, sometimes though, it kind of seems that some black people are too proud and end up segregating themselves. Does that make sense?

LadyLucretia · 09-21-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopHaggardDoll

I'm not meaning to sound rude or anything, sometimes though, it kind of seems that some black people are too proud and end up segregating themselves. Does that make sense?

People are naturally drawn to those with similar backgrounds and experience. But I think it's quite a bit different than sticking together because if you don't, people who don't like you are going to threaten you.

TopHaggardDoll · 09-21-2007, 08:27 PM

hmmmm....I s'pose.

MollyMac · 09-21-2007, 09:50 PM

It is way, way out of proportion, but the root of the explosion is no less valid.

Bottom line, the instigators need to be punished for the noose and inciting; the Jena 6 need to be punished for assault.

Rizash · 09-21-2007, 11:24 PM

Weirdness..... Thats all this is.... as far as I know this all started with the noose hanging from the "white tree" and the 6 black kids were so upset about it they decided to beat the crap out of the poor guy that had nothing to do with it... Thats all there is to it from EVERYTHING I read.

The people who set up the nooses should have been expelled, NOT had charges pressed against them.... Instead they were just suspended, thats why the race card is being played.... This is certainly worth expelling them.... But WHY punish the family of the student who was hurt badly (even though he had NOTHING to do with the first incident) by letting a group of bullys go free? I'm sorry but if I'm a parrent of the kid who got beat up I'm pressing charges, and if they dont stick I'm taking the school to court for damages/emotion, etc AND medical costs as well as relocation and medical cost because I wouldnt live where that crap happens and people get away with it because someone thinks they can play the race card and get away with it.....

I have very unrestricted views on this stuff because I am one of the most unique people around.... I'm not racist... in fact I'm very non biassed in most cases involving people DISPITE being stepped on in the past in ways that would have made most people become very judgemental. People will do ANYTHING to play the race card because they THINK it helps their cause.... Yes discrimination exists, but letting 6 thugs get away with assault (assuming that they all actually had something to do with it) because of some stupid prank by other kids who were raised by parrents who didnt know/couldnt do any better at raising their kids only fans the flames....

Either its their way of getting retribution against people they ASSUME have bad blood/discriminated.... (I hate that idea because I know for fact that some of my ancestors had relationships with other races and some fought in various ways to try to make things equal (IE underground railroad))
OR
Some people just want to piss people off and make it look like they're doing good things by hiding under "equality" and "justice" this happens every so often and I hate to say it... but even I am starting to believe that these groups that fight for rights of the minorities are only working for self advancement and endless power....
Unless of course they're doing what they think is right... but they're just a bit mis-guided.... if this is the case, I pity everyone.... we all lose when people like this get too much power because it just provokes MORE retaliation when they're trying to do good things

Rizash · 09-21-2007, 11:36 PM

PS:

The latest.... a guy in a pickup truck in another city not too far from Jena was arrested for having 2 nooses hanging out the back of his truck.... WTF is wrong with people.... I can understand being upset enough to want to vent, but stupid timing.... I can understand not wanting his ideas of free speech (that are right...) allowed out so they cannot fan the flames and make things worse, but NOW things are REALLY going to get bad.... you have TWO cases of the majority getting stepped on....

First case people get away scott free because they're minorities.... (thats how it looks anyway)

Now a guy goes to jail because he's pissed off and protesting because he's annoyed at all the people that went to let criminals get away without a trial.... several thousand people protested... wanting them to get off 100% free and clear.... it annoyed me too....

This is far, far worse though.... in ONE story a noose (should have led to the expulsion of students that set it up) riled people up enough to beat some random kid up....

Then the kids who beat up the other kid are using the race card to try to get off 100% free and clear... (this is how it LOOKS/FEELS)

Then someone is pissed off enough to protest his own way (bad taste/idiot, yes) by hanging 2 nooses out the back of his tailgate.....

Now he's being charged with a hate crime? WTF?

WTF WTF WTF

I give up... Saddam died by a Noose.... as did many WWII anti-semites.... why cant people just give up all these archaic derrogatory terms.... if we ignore them they die because nobody will use them....

BTW: I had a thought.... If I had a truck... hang a rope out the back looped like a noose but not tied into one.... make it look like it was one....

Drive around that city/area for a few hours/days.....

On the other end of the rope is a real noose end and a dummy/ghost type blanket with a saying on it.... Something like.... The more we overreact to racism the more people will BE racist.... We can *PERsecute* all the racists we want... in the end it will make everyone racist in one way or another... the only victim is the one that is already hanging by a thread... freedom.....

I wouldnt actually do this as I dont have the guts, have a paranoia of being persecuted (see below) and dont want to cause trouble/fan the flames...

Peace....
-Riz

LadyLucretia · 09-22-2007, 07:41 AM

Ok, everyone who thinks the black kids in this case are just overreacting and playing the race card, please consider the following events first (it is similar to my hazy account but they more accurately report the timeline and charges filed):

"Racial Demons Rear Heads"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...,3301167.story

First, a series of fights between black and white students erupted at the high school over the nooses. Then, in late November, unknown arsonists set fire to the central wing of the school, which still sits in ruins. Off campus, a white youth beat up a black student who showed up at an all-white party. A few days later, another young white man pulled a shotgun on three black students at a convenience store.

Finally, on Dec. 4, a group of black students at the high school allegedly jumped a white student on his way out of the gym, knocked him unconscious and kicked him after he hit the floor. The victim -- allegedly targeted because he was a friend of the students who hung the nooses and had been taunting blacks -- was not seriously injured and spent only a few hours in the hospital.

But the LaSalle Parish district attorney, Reed Walters, opted to charge six black students with attempted second-degree murder and other offenses, for which they could face a maximum of 100 years in prison if convicted. All six were expelled from school.

The critics note, for example, that the white youth who beat the black student at the party was charged only with simple battery, while the white man who pulled the shotgun at the convenience store wasn't charged with any crime at all. But the three black youths in that incident were arrested and accused of aggravated battery and theft after they wrestled the weapon from the man -- in self-defense, they said.

"There's been obvious racial discrimination in this case," said Joe Cook, executive director of the Louisiana chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, who described Jena as a "racial powder keg" primed to ignite. "It appears the black students were singled out and targeted in this case for some unusually harsh treatment."

NOW tell me it's all blown out of proportion, and that we should just ignore racism until it goes away (while a 17 year old rots in jail for a schoolyard fight), that black people should just be grateful for all the progress that's been made, and that black people should stop "instigating" these sorts of incidents and acting like "vigilantes."

Rizash · 09-23-2007, 12:59 AM

Had I known any of that background I never would have posted what I did....

BUT

Still think they're going to get off scott free for beating the crap out of a kid, very least they should get is expelled.... Or suspension and minor charges....

As for the other cases re-examine them and set things right....

My above example was more or less saying people over-react to this stuff (they ALWAYS do) you never hear about it when people under-react... or people get away with stupid stuff.... I just wish people would quit doing these KNEE JERK reactions then maybe we'd pay attention to all the stupid things that slip by....

Thanks for the knowledge and setting things straight

Underwater Ophelia · 09-23-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyLucretia

According to the article I read in either Time or Newsweek, white students attacked a black student and were given probation and community service. But when the black students attacked a white student, they were charged with attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, and all sorts of trumped-up charges for an extremely similar crime. The "deadly weapon"? Their sneakers. There is a 17 year old kid sitting in jail over this while a bunch of white kids who did basically the same thing got off scott-free. If that's not an abuse of the criminal justice system, I don't know what is.

I read that some/most of the Jena 6 had previous records, which does not help.
Also, people are talking about the white jury...um, the black people that were called for jury duty didn't show up.

CptSternn · 09-25-2007, 02:12 AM

The other racial tensions in the area should have no bearing on the case.

Other kids get into a fight a few days before - how does this make it ok for the persons arrested to beat someone? Just because there had been other confrontations in the area does not give anyone judicial license to beat anyone.

Thats like saying becaused I know an Irish guy that got beat by an American a few weeks ago, I can now take six mates of mine and go beat a random American, then if I get arrested say 'hey - I heard about some Americans fighting last week, therefore you can't arrest me'.

Substitute Irish/American or Black/White for any two groups you wish, it still doesn't justify beatings.

...because if it does, then your now saying that if racial tensions are high between any two groups, its ok to beat people.

delicti · 09-25-2007, 05:42 AM

I think there is a serious need to for external evaluation of the equity of the legal and law enforcement systems of that area. Considering the culture of the location, it isn't particularly shocking. If the currently known history of the town is as accurate as it sounds, it really is a shame that this type of culture still exists in places in the US today.

LadyLucretia · 09-25-2007, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

The other racial tensions in the area should have no bearing on the case.

Other kids get into a fight a few days before - how does this make it ok for the persons arrested to beat someone? Just because there had been other confrontations in the area does not give anyone judicial license to beat anyone.

Of course not. The issue is why the white students are being charged with less serious offenses for committing the same crimes (or worse).

And the kid pulling a gun on two black students, and *them* getting charged for "assualt" and "theft" for wrestling it away - I'm sorry, but if someone is pointing a loaded weapon at me my first thought would not be "Hmm, I should steal that!" I find it hard to believe that the gun was pulled in a convenience store just for show and tell, and that they were trying to steal it as opposed to, you know, trying to avoid being shot. Either way, I have no idea how the kid wasn't at least charged with brandishing a weapon.

I'm sorry, but if that type of failure of justice was going on around me, I'd want to kick the shit out of someone too.

Underwater Ophelia · 09-25-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyLucretia

Of course not. The issue is why the white students are being charged with less serious offenses for committing the same crimes (or worse).

Did six white kids beat a black kid into unconciousness? No. No they did not. They hung fucking nooses. Wrong, disgusting, maybe even evil--but not a crime. It is a crime to beat someone to the point where they can't even open their eyes.

The other events, such as the shotgun event, have nothing to do with the Jena 6. The shotgun event, YES, that was racist, but that doesn't mean the Jena 6 event was racist.

delicti · 09-25-2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

The other events, such as the shotgun event, have nothing to do with the Jena 6. The shotgun event, YES, that was racist, but that doesn't mean the Jena 6 event was racist.

I think that what the defense it trying to negotiate, is that the defendant claims that the last event (the assault) was racially motivated, but was in retaliation for other crimes being committed against them.

It's a weak defense, but it does bring some interesting things to light, and may at least grant leniency from a higher court.

The shotgun incident is probably the most disturbing, because while it's easy for teenagers to convince themselves they're tough and do stupid things, it's an entirely different thing for that stupid thing to be attempted murder.

The fact that the police reaction was exactly the opposite of what should have happened does speak a good deal to a pattern of racism in the town. What is also disturbing is that leaders like Al Sharpton are focusing on the nooses and not the shotgun incident. This is indicative of shock tactics, and shows how little he is actually interested in helping the kids. Unfortunately, exposure and understanding are still the best tools we have in preventing racism.

LadyLucretia · 09-25-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Did six white kids beat a black kid into unconciousness? No. No they did not.

Well, one white kid beat up a black student and was charged with simple battery. Granted, six on one is a different ratio, but was the damage done really enough to trump the charges up to attempted murder? The other events establish a pretty clear pattern of racism, which is why they are relevant to this case, because there is little other explanation for why the charges are so unduly harsh for the Jena 6.

Underwater Ophelia · 09-25-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyLucretia

Well, one white kid beat up a black student and was charged with simple battery. Granted, six on one is a different ratio, but was the damage done really enough to trump the charges up to attempted murder? The other events establish a pretty clear pattern of racism, which is why they are relevant to this case, because there is little other explanation for why the charges are so unduly harsh for the Jena 6.

Was the kid beaten into unconciousness? Was it six on one?
It's extremely different.

I just want to say, I am not racist or anti black at all. I am, however, against abuses of the justice system. We should not "FREE THE JENA 6" because they committed a violent crime. The reason why doesn't matter. In addition, the white kids should also be dealt with, but the punishments should not be equal, because the crimes aren't equal.

Also, for some perspective, it's entirely legal for a black girl to come up to me and call me a "cracker" or a "white bitch." It's not nice, but it's entirely legal. It's not legal for me to decide that I have the right to beat her until she's unconcious.

LadyLucretia · 09-25-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

We should not "FREE THE JENA 6" because they committed a violent crime.

I never said they should get off without charges. I just don't think a 17 year old should be sitting in jail charged with attempted murder over a schoolyard fight that only resulted in a few hours in the hospital and no long-term damage. Should they be punished for it? Yes. Should their lives be over because of it? I don't think so.

Underwater Ophelia · 09-25-2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyLucretia

I never said they should get off without charges. I just don't think a 17 year old should be sitting in jail charged with attempted murder over a schoolyard fight that only resulted in a few hours in the hospital and no long-term damage. Should they be punished for it? Yes. Should their lives be over because of it? I don't think so.

Most of the Jena 6 also had previous records. And it doesn't really matter that the victim recovered. If you tried to shoot me, but only clipped my arm, you should still go to jail. It doesn't matter that they didn't hurt the kid, it matters that they tried.