Politics and religion. Good or bad idea?

[Godslayer Jillian]

WOah, you do know I'm a guy, right?

[Sobeh]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

WOah, you do know I'm a guy, right?

Yeah I think we all do, but despite your rationale for the 'Jillian' as per the name thread, you're kinda screwed there buster bill. >:P

[Binkie]

Yep. And from the way you brag about committing crimes and being arrested (you even admit to being proud of this), you're sitting here, without a wife or children, passing judgement on Ozzy? I find that kind of funny, especially since your biggest "accomplishments" in life, like meeting muscians (who really gives a fuck), committing crimes, supposedly hosting music events, and meeting with politicians are all overshadowed by stuff Ozzy has done ten fold. And he's even gone and done things your sorry ass will never do; marry a wife and raise a family of his own.

My man... you are in no position to call Ozzy a loser. Lol.

[Tuk Keedair]

George Bush:



World Class Monster







“George Bush is a satanic, sadistic, brutal monster.
Compared to George Bush, Adolf Hitler was a true gentleman.”



- Michael Boren Williams, former Campaign Manager for Senator Gary Hart and Bush murder attempt victim







“For the record, if I had my choice as to which one of the two (Clinton or Bush) represented the greater evil, I would say George Bush - in the blink of an eye....”

- Michael Ruppert, former LAPD Narcotics detective

[Blushing Heliophobe]

I'm ignoring you.

[Tuk Keedair]

[quote=Blushing Heliophobe]I'm ignoring you.[/QUOTE


why ignore me? I speak the truth. The truth hurts. Just because people can't speak my language that offends them? Like those who speak german to those who can't understand them is not offensive?

[DeadlyButtMonkey]

That's true.

[Cambodian Breakfast]

Do you know what the nine Satanic statments are?

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

Bush does have some of these quilities. I think that everone has a few.

[Cambodian Breakfast]

The Church of Satan wab sit.

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

Why do you ask?

[Cambodian Breakfast]

It is from the Satanic Bible. Are you a Satanist? The only reason that I ask is becuase I was on once.

[MrMaelstrom]

Recent deletions reminded me of this for the community in general: IF YOU'RE GONNA COPY/PASTE FROM SOMEWHERE, SUMMARIZE YOUR POINTS AND QUOTE SOURCES.




Thank you.

[MrMaelstrom]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

WOah, you do know I'm a guy, right?

Sorry, it's that whole Jillian thing.... again, sorry.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Xnguela

It doesn't sound like the LaVeyan Satanism I'm familiar with.

How strange.

Umm... those statements were exactly what Satan represents, word by word. O.o

[Randy]

1. I think that politics and government are the source of many problems in todays modern world. Without politics many wars would have been prevented. Without government we would not have the greatest evil demon of them all which is money.

2. I think that everyone is entitled to there own personal believes but when you bring them into the white house and into politics it creates massive problems. Just like bringing religion into the schools. If you don't believe in god and you are not cathlic then you certinly would not go to a cathlic school. But now a days it doesn't matter since christianity is the number one religion it most likely that every public school has a god fearing teacher or principle. And since in most schools even public ones consider saying jesus christ out loud and out of conduct a swear word they will punish the students for saying it which is wrong because they are expelling students for saying jesus christ in public schools because of the teachers or principles own personal believes.

[CptSternn]

In a blow to the bush admin and their 'faith based initiatives'...

Court: Prison program unconstitutional

http://news.**********/s/ap/20071204...gahFN0nRKs0NUE

DES MOINES, Iowa - A federal appeals court ruled Monday that the state of Iowa cannot fund an evangelical Christian prison ministry program because doing so advances or endorses religion, violating the Constitutional separation of church and state.

The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld U.S. District Judge Robert Pratt's June 2006 ruling that a Prison Fellowship Ministries Inc. program at the Newton Correctional Facility was unconstitutional if paid for with taxpayer dollars and should be shut down.

Barry Lynn, executive director of the Washington-based advocacy group Americans United For Separation of Church and State, which brought the lawsuit, said the ruling would have major implications for the Bush administration's policies of allowing faith-based groups to offer services to government institutions.

"This is an enormously significant case on the whole question of how government can, or in this case, cannot aid religious ministries," Lynn said.

"I think this has implications far broader than a prison in a single state because the basic framework of this decision, the way they reached the conclusion is that government can't pay for these religious social services nor can they turn over functions of government essentially to religious operations," he said.

Prison Fellowship Ministries, which contracts with InnerChange Freedom Initiatives Inc. and other organizations to conduct faith-based programs, must repay about $160,000 to the state for money received between June 2006 and June 2007, said Mark Early, the group's president.

He said the ruling would clarify how faith-based programs could work with government agencies.

"We're pleased because in this opinion there are some clarifying guidelines to help us and other faith-based organizations working in government settings, such as prisons, to be able to fashion a program and make sure they do comply with current understanding of constitutional law in this area."

Prison Fellowship operates nine programs in six states: Iowa, Arkansas, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri and Texas. All are now privately funded through donations from individuals and foundations, he said.

The 24-hour a day, seven-day a week program at Newton immerses inmates in evangelical Christianity. Inmates who complete the 18-month program also get help after they're released from prison.

Fred Scaletta, a spokesman for the Iowa Department of Corrections, said corrections officials were reviewing the ruling with the attorney general's office to determine how the state would proceed with the operation of the program.

Bob Brammer, a spokesman for the Iowa attorney general's office, said attorneys were reviewing the ruling and considering whether to appeal.

An appeal could include asking the three-member 8th Circuit panel for clarification on issues or could seek consideration by the full 8th Circuit Court. The ruling also could be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court.


No doubt this will go all the way to the supreme court. We obviously know where the bush admin stands on this topic - but IMHO I agree witht the courts on this one - this clearly violates the separation of church and state and more importantly, there shouldn't be a mixing of the two.

I mean, think about this - what if they elect a Muslim President one day? Are Muslim inmates then going to get shorter sentences while the evangelicals rot in prisons?

[Wormboy]

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death. " - George Carlin

[CptSternn]

Oddly enough, here is a story about the separation of church and state, that I feel the state needs to be more involved in...

http://news.**********/s/ap/20071207..._c3eQh9aus0NUE

Just 2 ministries submit financial data

Only two of six Christian ministries under scrutiny for allegations of opulent spending turned over documents to a Senate panel by a Thursday deadline, with others either fighting the request or asking for more time.

A month ago, Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley sent pointed questions to a half-dozen high-profile ministries asking about salaries, perks and private jets in a quest to determine whether rules governing tax-exempt groups had been broken.

Grassley, the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said in an interview he remains confident he will get the ministries' "full cooperation," despite opposition from some.

Grassley's office said it received a package of material Thursday from representatives of Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, who head a ministry in Texas. Joyce Meyer Ministries of Fenton, Mo., run by the inspirational speaker and author, provided documents earlier this week.

Two other ministers — Georgia megachurch pastors Creflo Dollar and Bishop Eddie Long — have issued statements balking at the request, raising questions about constitutional protections given to churches.

Texas-based faith healer Benny Hinn asked for more time to respond, and Grassley's office said a meeting with Hinn's attorneys is set for Friday. Grassley's office said lawyers for preachers Paula and Randy White of Tampa made initial contact with the senator's office Thursday and gave no indication of a further response.

"We've had more concern from people meeting the deadline, so I've made very clear that if they're cooperating, we'll be flexible, because we want information," Grassley said. "I want and expect full cooperation."

In his previous investigations of nonprofits, Grassley sought and received financial records from groups including the Nature Conservancy, the United Way and the Smithsonian Institution. During his tenure on the committee, Grassley said subpoenas were necessary only twice — in the Enron scandal and Jack Abramoff influence-peddling investigations.

But, unlike secular nonprofits, the IRS does not require churches to make their finances public.

"We've never had any problems, and I expect that in the end we won't have to work hard to get all these folks to cooperate, and I'd be very disappointed if I did," Grassley said.

Attorneys for some of the ministries have said that probing the groups' inner workings amounts to unconstitutional governmental meddling in religion. Grassley has emphasized that he is not investigating doctrine but making sure organizations enjoying the benefits of tax-exempt status are playing by the rules. Grassley dismissed the religious liberty argument.

"Forget it," he said. "They don't have a leg to stand on."

Grassley said that if he had to seek subpoenas, he expects Democrats on the panel to cooperate with him. But Grassley emphasized he didn't think that was necessary at this point.

"I've never had to get a subpoena from a nonprofit organization in the past and I don't expect I'll have to this time," he said. "... All I can say is, I've got a job to do and I've got to do my job."

A spokesman for Long, of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Lithonia, Ga., said in a statement Thursday that the senator's request "clearly disregards the privacy protections of the Church under law and appears to cross the line of Constitutional guarantees for churches."

"The Church will fully comply with all laws applicable to churches but will insist upon the preservation of its Constitutional freedoms of religion and Equal Protection under law," the statement said. Grassley's office said it had not received a formal response or material from Long's lawyers before the deadline.

Dollar, an Atlanta-area megachurch preacher, also has refused to answer Grassley's questions. In a letter last week in response to Grassley's demands, Dollar's lawyer asked that the investigation either be referred to the IRS, which would give greater privacy to the churches, or that the Senate committee get a subpoena for the documents.

On referring the whole matter to the IRS, Grassley said Thursday, "I can't tell (the IRS) what to do. I can't refer anything to them unless I know something is wrong. And I won't know if anything's wrong until we get the information."

Hinn also missed the Thursday deadline but has been in touch with Grassley's office and plans to "facilitate a response" by the end of January, a spokesman said in a statement.

The spokesman, Ronn Torossian, declined to say whether Hinn was leaning toward cooperating or fighting the request.

But in a long post about his finances on his Web site, Hinn says that his board of directors is independent and includes no relatives, that he uses the church airplane exclusively for ministry-related travel, and that his U.S. office is audited annually.

Hinn has also posted general financial statements for his work, along with letters from auditors confirming their reviews. But he said his ministry does not make public "itemized annual financials" because "both corporate and ministry financial reports can be manipulated by unscrupulous people with unsavory agendas."


I mean, those TV ministers, taking in tens of millions a year, and spening it on air-conditioned gold trimmed dog houses and buying private jets for their kids.

No one has yet to say boo about this - and considering they are TAX EXEMPT, I think this is a big issue that needs to be addressed.