Gothic Discrimination in School

[ExistentialDisorder]

Ok, well i'm still not entirely clear on what it is you're trying to say, but that could just be because i'm tired. at any rate. The holocaust is no more, or no less atrocious than the persecution of witches. in both situations innocent people were tortured and killed due to their religious beliefs and backgrounds. It doesn't matter whether it was 1 or 1 million, it doesn't make either act any less horrific. I'm not even sure right now how this thread trailed off to religion. Maybe it was about the kid that used wicca as his basis for discrimination of dress code. I don't remember now and can't be bothered to re-read it all. My only real point at the moment is that because my belief system is pagan, I take matters regarding paganism and the like very seriously and find ignorance of it offensive. Pagans have gotten a bum rap for freakin ever and its really getting old. We're constantly displayed by the media and churches to be everything from devil worshippers to murderers to r a p i s t s and theives and its rare that anybody ever stands up to defend us or our history. While its true that there are some who falsly call themselves pagan that practice the dark arts, most pagans are peaceful people who don't even believe in the devil, much less worship it, and who would give their own lives before ever even considering harming another. Yet we're the ones that get accused of being evil. So when a topic is started about, or turns to, the subject of paganism, and I see points that are brought up by those less knowledgeable, I try my best to clarify it. Sometimes I guess I go a little overboard. I do not intentionally cause it to turn to an argument or personal attacks, but I won't back down from it either. It can be a bit frustrating at times. Anyway. that's all. I'm tired. 'night.

~E.D.

[Jane13]

Alright! Look... some of my best friends are pagan. I am quite displeased when people mock or discount their beleifs as invalid... but as a Catholic I am equally displeased when when my religious beleifs are bashed. So many people seem to think it's a one sided isssue- Catholics/Christians persecute everyone and pagans never touch anything. Look, wrongs were done in the past on BOTH SIDES. Does anyone remember Rome BEORE emporer Constantine? What about the persucution of Christians in the far east, especially Japan during their isolationist period? (I am not debating that Hitler was by any means a Pagan) In the Holocaust it wasn't just the Jews (and were do Judeo/Christian ethics come from? Judeism.), but Homosexuals, physically disabled people, anyone who was not "up to standard"(eastern europeans, slavs, Romani, etc), and Roman Catholics, among others. I am equally appalled at such attrocities as the Spanish Inquisition, whitch trials, and so on, but PLEASE, this is not a one sided thing.

Also, "Pagan" origionally meant someone from the country. When Emporer Constantine converted it took a really long time for news to spread, so the new religion was mostly practiced in cities... the old religion came to be known as pagan because it mostly practiced by people in rural areas.

Sorry, I try to stay out of these types of discussions, but I felt something should be said. Sorry again if I offend anyone, but this is how I feel.

[Disfunction]

I don't know. I seriously think that there's a lot of discrimination going on in schools. Like, the one day I came into school on a non-uniform day, the administration got all bent out of shape about it, they threw a blanket over me and brought me into the main office until the police finally arrived on the scene. You'd be surprised about how anal the cops were about it, too. All of this trouble over my choice of dress, and all I wanted to do was get to class, get through the day and go home. It's insane how anal people can be about nudism.

[Jane13]

HEe hee hee ha ha!! ^.^

[Peter]

Originally Posted by Jane13

Does anyone remember Rome BEORE emporer Constantine? What about the persucution of Christians in the far east, especially Japan during their isolationist period?

Like it were yesterday.

*sigh* Memories.

You know, some neo-pagans are less pagan and more anti-Christian.

[Disfunction]

I'm anti-religion. I'm anti-vegetarian. I'm anti-eating. I'm anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-confirmity. I'm anti-anti. I'm anti-you. I'm anti-me. I'm anti-drug. I'm anti-abstinence. I'm anti-self-contradiction. I'm anti-hypocrisy. I'm anti-sensicality. I'm anti-insanity. I'm anti-anti-anti-conforming to anti-confomity against anti-conformity. Any questions? Because I'm anti-those, too.

[Disfunction]

You know, some neo-pagans are less pagan and more pro-"watch me do something to shock my parents because I am such an rebel."

I'm all for finding yourself, and I'm all for ideological diversity, but when it comes right down to it, I can't tolerate people who can't justify the end they've achieved via religious means. I mean, if you want to be different, there are plenty of things you can do, and driving on the right side of the road in London is one of them.

I personally, as an atheist, don't believe that religious distinction is all that relevant, and that at the basic core, it is some brand of connection to spirituality and hope. I lost hope in a fire, once. Along with my comic book collection and an autographed poster of Donnie Osmond.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by Disfunction

I'm anti-religion. I'm anti-vegetarian. I'm anti-eating. I'm anti-anti-anti-anti-anti-confirmity. I'm anti-anti. I'm anti-you. I'm anti-me. I'm anti-drug. I'm anti-abstinence. I'm anti-self-contradiction. I'm anti-hypocrisy. I'm anti-sensicality. I'm anti-insanity. I'm anti-anti-anti-conforming to anti-confomity against anti-conformity. Any questions? Because I'm anti-those, too.

Can I call you Aunty?

[Disfunction]

Originally Posted by Peter

Can I call you Aunty?

I'm Aunty Anti, and anti-aunty.

No aunty for your anti-aunty anti-anti-aunty-anti.

saohghretjshghagrhwarhghrhghgeggsfriedinporkbasedl ard.

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Originally Posted by Disfunction

I lost hope in a fire, once. Along with my comic book collection and an autographed poster of Donnie Osmond.

Sob..

Not Donnie Osmond...



Oh the Horror Auntie-Anti....

The Injustice of this Cruel World!!!

Sniffle..

[Sakred_Winter]

Originally Posted by ExistentialDisorder

Uhm, thank you, I think, but what does 'latence' mean? other than delayed... lol

~E.D.

I spelled it wrong >.< Gawd Im dumb. ( a term that is more...well..."dumb" I guess. A term that a less intelligent person can understand.)
I totally agree with you. I know more about the Christian religion than actual christians. And its the most annoying thing in the world to try and convince these people the facts. So its usually why I either avoid these people, or avoid the subject of religion. I really love the christians that will actually listen, and maybe learn something about their religion, and other's religion. I just love open-minded christians. lol :smile:

[Sakred_Winter]

Originally Posted by TStone

What part of lick my ball sack did you not understand?

This quote was unnecessary and unappreciated. This is a topic for intelligent conversation. Calling people names and telling them to do something that is vulgar to you is just stupid. Tho, if you like other guys licking you there, I am not one to judge you on that. Just please ask them to do it to you in private. Please do not post here anymore.

[Rosie]

I don't get how anyone can think it's understandable, but I think some people think it's mature to suck up and accept people messing with their rights.

Really, it begins at school. People should be able to dress how they want whenever, whereever, as long as it's not taken to extremes or ir *genuinely* distracting, i.e. extremely skimpy. The purpose of school is more to mould people than educate them which is frustrating.

[Disfunction]

I don't really deem dress as the end all of options available to me as an outlet of self-expression. All you do is alter people's first impressions of you, and I mean, I love dressing up in black clothes with all manner of metal hanging off of me, dark hair, make up for shock value and a brand of other content that alters my appearance, but if me being to school in blue jeans and a beige t-shirt will get the administration to spill their sexual fluids all over the place, who am I to deny them the joygasm of social conformity in an institutional context. I can dress up on my own time, or.. you know... not.

[Rosie]

Originally Posted by Disfunction

I don't really deem dress as the end all of options available to me as an outlet of self-expression. All you do is alter people's first impressions of you, and I mean, I love dressing up in black clothes with all manner of metal hanging off of me, dark hair, make up for shock value and a brand of other content that alters my appearance, but if me being to school in blue jeans and a beige t-shirt will get the administration to spill their sexual fluids all over the place, who am I to deny them the joygasm of social conformity in an institutional context. I can dress up on my own time, or.. you know... not.

I believe that outward appearance is an important tool of expression. We look very look as a race, really, and it's nice that we have some interesting examples. I think it's important that at least some people question the norms with their dress sense, though there's so little of that nowadays. Most people just seem to have fallen into "Prep" because it's "too much effort" and "Appearance doesn't matter".

I find it ironic that most the people that would debate me on that point then go off drooling over some dolled up Super model.

[Disfunction]

Originally Posted by Rosie

I believe that outward appearance is an important tool of expression. We look very look as a race, really, and it's nice that we have some interesting examples. I think it's important that at least some people question the norms with their dress sense, though there's so little of that nowadays. Most people just seem to have fallen into "Prep" because it's "too much effort" and "Appearance doesn't matter".

I find it ironic that most the people that would debate me on that point then go off drooling over some dolled up Super model.

Super models are repugnant. That said, I'm not debating whether or not people should be forced to dress in specifically socially acceptable fashions outside of an institution, but if it is typically found that a style of dress will behave distractively, it should be given to consideration that said styles of dress should not be allowed.

Tell me, what would you rather, the inability to dress up in a "gothic" or "punk" style of dress, but the ability to wear anything else within a specific style set, or uniforms? This question applies to school.

[Rosie]

The former of course, but both are undesirable.

[Disfunction]

Originally Posted by Rosie

The former of course, but both are undesirable.

Same here.



Damn shame how that one worked out for me.

[Rosie]

Originally Posted by TStone

OK, all gibbing aside, why aren’t any of your parents fighting for your rights? I’ve gone to my son’s principal three times this year, my daughters twice, because the systems sucked, and the schools a mite retarded on dress codes.

For fucking hell, on orientation day the teacher said my son had to buy a TEAMSPIRIT shirt, for to promote school pride, which they are supposed to wear every Thursday, and that he need to pony up 15 bucks for it. I picked up one of the shirts, noticed the fruit of the loom tag, the rather shabby green dye job—and looking at the teacher, “What if he doesn’t want to.”

Notice the period there, not a question mark.

Her reply, “He’ll have to do lines on the board.”

My reply, “There is no school uniform policy here, you can not mandate the purchase of a school shirt, and if you try to punish any student for failing to do so, we’ll have to take this to the next level and see what the Sunshine Committee has to say on the matter.”

Because at the heart is this, fifteen bucks might not be a lot to me, or to my son, but I grew up poor as hell, and fifteen bucks back then was a shitload of money…and what with the rising cost of inflation and today’s standards—it’s downright goddamn criminal to try an sucker kids and parents into buying a 3dollar fruit of the loom shirt/with a .30 cent dye job, when a lot of the kid’s parents can’t afford the 3dollar and .30 cent shirt in the first place, let alone the huge markup.

And then, to top it off, threaten punishment for failure to comply?

Suckmynut.

Then there is this little gem.

A few weeks ago my wife’s car broke down while returning from a trip. They had to leave the car at the dealership, with all their luggage inside, and caught a ride home with a friend. The next morning was a school day for my kids, but my eldest daughter had taken all her shoes, with the exception of her open toed dress shoes, on the trip.

The opened toed dress shoes were all she had to wear.

I repeat.

It’s all she had to wear.

So my wife walks her to school like she always does, but she plans on going to the office that morning and explaining the situation because she and my daughter both know the school doesn’t allow dress shoes (why the fuck not?) but before she can get through the door some lowbrow cretin stops them, scolds my daughter who happens to be standing there with my wife, about my daughter’s inappropriate dress shoes.

Say what chuck?

My wife tries to explain the situation, but el’cretin tells her she has to see the principal, which is exactly where she was heading before they were stopped…

Did I mention my daughter is 8yrs old?

She was bawling, just down right sick from all the emotions of the confrontation, and even though the principal said it was fine for her to go to school that day with the dress shoes…she couldn’t because el’cretin had upset her so goddamn much she began throwing up.

You people may think I’m a son of a bitch, but you haven’t really seen my SONOFABITCH mode. Fuck with my family and you’re fucking with disaster.

We now have a signed apology, I’m thinking of framing it.

But really now, on dress codes and rights, I feel for you, I feel for all of you. Shit has progressed to a level of absolute absurdity, and some of you are being progressive and becoming involved (in a student capacity) with your school boards, which is all highly commendable.

Get your parents involved as well. If you really want to make changes, they have a better chance, as your legal guardian, in ensuring your rights (which are an extension of their rights) are not expunged or infringed upon.

If they agree with your schools current code, then you can either brush up on your debate skills and change their way of thinking, work on a settlement of compromise, and in some cases you may want to look at the issue from their point of view and see if they have a valid reason for thinking the way they do.

You sir, fucking rock. So many times have I gotten mocked for suggesting that my hatred of people controlling others appearance, and generally suckering people as a result was a valid one. People say it's just a "Phase" without any other backing, now I know it's not.

More people like you, please. It starts with the small things, change those and the big things are so much easier. It's the same arrogance behind hatred of the "different" types and homosexuals and other races.

I almost want to become a mother just so I can do stuff like that. Parental support = nightmare for schools. They're mostly bullies who rely on the fact that kids can't fight back.

[Jane13]

TStone, I bet your family loves you and their schools hate you... you rock. It's great to see not all of us are in this stupid Dress Code Assimalation:Stage X alone ^.^

[Disfunction]

Tom, this is why I would have liked for you to have adopted me all those years ago. I wept for hours dreaming of having a daddy like you, but instead I have mine, who is wonderful by his own merit, but certainly has no regard for my sense of self-expression through dress. In fact, whenever I wore monochrome black, he would identify it with the state of my depression, and he'd grow concerned.

I personally stopped minding dressing in what is commonly perceived as "normal" dress, but I recognize always where everyone else is coming from; it's just easier. Besides, I like sneaking up on people when they least expect me to be what I am... BAM, I write a piece of prose about a lobster fucking their starfish... BAM, they didn't know what hit them and I flee back into the shadows.

Sidenote: I was just about to finish my story when I got distracted by my room mates/dinner/a friend that wanted to watch the Family Guy movie; it should be done later tonight or early tomorrow.

[Jane13]

I guess your dad couldn't do what my dad does... he assumes everything I do is wierd to him because I'm a girl.

[Sakred_Winter]

For that fucking rockin' speech, I commend you.
My mom sometimes does that shit. All recently though. She's a Christian, but I've basically forced her into a more open mind (unlike her pastor) and she's a really cool Christian. She agrees with the school on a lot of points, especially when I had my lip done for..about 3 weeks, got it done on my birthday. And one day it was unnacceptable. One of my teachers complained a plain, silver, small loop in my lip was distracting. I wouldn't take it out so my principle sent me home, my mom got an unexcused absence on account of administrative approval. Plus, she's bitched the school out on alot of instances of my disturbances since I was in 4th grade.
I use my daddy for emergencies though. lol
I love my mom to death, she even defends me when my stepfather is being shitty to me about being pagan.
You're like the kind of parent I want to be. I know my kids are going to be a little askew of the standards, and I'll fight tooth and nail against anyone that tries to fuck with them.
So we're cool *nod*

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Originally Posted by Sakred_Winter

For that fucking rockin' speech, I commend you.
You're like the kind of parent I want to be.
So we're cool *nod*

Tstone is one of the finest men I know, or will ever know..

You probably will never meet another human being with a greater Depth of Honor and understanding of what is Right and Good in the world..

He would give his last pair of shoes, to someone with no feet, if they really needed them to survive.

I strive to be the kind of parent he is to his precious children..

I also would never have made it through some of the Soul-Crushing experiences I have had, without his friendship and support..

He really is the best...

You'll always be at the Tops of my list Bard..





Plus NO ONE ELSE looks COOLER dressed as Captain Hook..

[MrMaelstrom]

Well, as for me, I just hate that "you rock" thing as a compliment?

Nice delivery Tman. I'm up for adoption, btw.

Existential disorder, I don't mean to be a grammar nazi , here, but it would make your posts a bit more readable if you pressed the ENTER key a few times to separate paragraphs/differebt parts of your arguements.

It's just that it is sunday here, I am still combating a hangover which nested and embbeded itself in my brain, andf your posts are not helping me out, interesting as they may be.

Thanks in advance.

Somebody shoot me or gimme a shot of vodka, pleeeease.