Ohio asshat wants women to get a permission slip to have an abortion. - Page 3

Beneath the Shadows · 07-22-2009, 08:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Nice, keep bullshitting your way around my question. It's very simple, listen carefully:
A bill is trying to pass. A woman has to ask for permission to get an abortion. If the man does not wanted, bad shit for her. Agree or disagree?

First of all, I just realized that I made a mistake. Earlier, when you said "having a girl go run to the father," I read that as "run to her father."

So I apologize.

As for your question, though, I've already answered it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

What I've been saying (over and over, and yet people still can't comprehend this) is that the man should have a say. Having a say does not mean total control. Having a say does not mean that the decision to abort (or not to) will be as the man wants 100% of the time. It only means that what the man wants will be taken into account when the final decision is made.

Godslayer Jillian · 07-22-2009, 08:10 PM

And I asked you how would they go about this. "Oh the world is so bad, they should to something about it!" Yeah? What?
And you still haven't told me: agree or disagree?

Saya · 07-22-2009, 08:12 PM

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Why are you so obsessed with blame? I'm not placing any.

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The fact that the woman allows her rapist to walk free is more disgusting.

Holy shit, I can't even finish my dinner now.

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And since when is a woman not capable of handing full custody of a child over to the father?

Since when is a man not capable of handing full custody of a child over to the mother? In either situation the other party would have to pay child support, which is apparently so horrible, so a woman would still have more of a burden to bear.

And for the last time, go fuck yourself. There is just so much stupidity, misogyny, victim blaming and pig headedness in what you post I don't want to go near it right now.

Beneath the Shadows · 07-22-2009, 08:15 PM

You said, "A bill is trying to pass. A woman has to ask for permission to get an abortion. If the man does not wanted, bad shit for her. Agree or disagree?" (I'm assuming you meant "does not want an abortion.")

I had already said "Having a say does not mean total control. Having a say does not mean that the decision to abort (or not to) will be as the man wants 100% of the time."

How does that not answer your question? I obviously disagree.

Beneath the Shadows · 07-22-2009, 08:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Saya

Since when is a man not capable of handing full custody of a child over to the mother? In either situation the other party would have to pay child support, which is apparently so horrible, so a woman would still have more of a burden to bear.

If they have a custody agreement in which one parent hands over full custody, they can further agree that the other parent doesn't need to pay any child support.

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And for the last time, go fuck yourself. There is just so much stupidity ... victim blaming and pig headedness in what you post I don't want to go near it right now.

First of all, I'm seeing exactly that coming from you. So I wouldn't talk. Secondly, if you don't want to go near it right now, why did you reply?

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misogyny

No misogyny here. Plenty of misandry, though, apparently.

Tumor · 07-23-2009, 12:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

If you had actually read my arguments, you would know that that's not true. What I've been saying (over and over, and yet people still can't comprehend this) is that the man should have a say. Having a say does not mean total control. Having a say does not mean that the decision to abort (or not to) will be as the man wants 100% of the time. It only means that what the man wants will be taken into account when the final decision is made.

I can't believe that people would actually argue against this. What's worse is that people arguing against this idea aren't actually arguing the idea itself, but rather a misrepresented version of the idea.

It seems to me that BtS is saying that a man should be allowed to express his opinion and desires and expect them to be taken into consideration, but that in the end the ultimate choice is still up to the woman.

Beneath the Shadows · 07-23-2009, 03:24 PM

When I saw that a new reply had been left, I was prepared for more arguing. I'm pleasantly surprised to discover that that won't be necessary. Yes, Tumor, that's exactly what I've been saying.

Solumina · 07-23-2009, 08:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

I've never even heard any such thing. After four c-sections, it certainly isn't the case with my wife.

Your wife is not all people, my cousin almost died while getting a C-section due to complications but that doesn't happen with everyone.

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Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

No it's not. It's only difficult to prove that someone in particular did it.

I don't know where you got this idea that **** is physically much different from your average every day kind of sex, for most cases the victim is forced to submit either through drugging or threats of violence, not physical force, and even when force is used it doesn't produce any real signatures of ****, it just shows that rough sex occurred, except in the case of extreme minors where the vagina is actually unable to accommodate the size of a penis

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Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

Dear lord, you just suggested that children ask to be *****.

No she suggested that people take advantage of their trust by manipulating them. Most victims of molestation while they are children don't realize what happened to them until they are much older.

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Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

Even if they don't fight, or can't, there's still physical evidence of forced penetration.

No there isn't, there is just evidence of penetration as I stated above **** is sex, the average **** doesn't put all that much strain on the vagina and even in the cases where it does many people enjoy rough sex or sex with well endowed partners so there is still no hard evidence of a ****.

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Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

And you're bouncing between numerous scenarios.

No shit, there are countless possible scenarios, all of which should be taken into consideration.

I also want to point out something that you are overlooking that you may want to think about: most **** victims who do go forward do so immediately after and therefor wouldn't really fall under this bill as they are encouraged to take the morning after pill or after they have taken months to sort through what has happened to them, frequently making it significantly more dangerous for them to get an abortion or even after it has become too late for them to have an abortion, even if they knew from the minute they found themselves pregnant that they wanted an abortion.

Nobody is saying that there shouldn't be a discussion between the two potential parents or that what the man thinks doesn't matter, but that isn't what this bill is about, this bill is about making sure that a woman can't get an abortion without the consent of the man who knocked her up.

Catch101 · 07-23-2009, 08:37 PM

Off Topic:

Is it okay if the woman wants to keep the child (since its her body) although the man has clearly expressed his opinion that the child be aborted (financial reasons, etc)?

Solumina · 07-23-2009, 08:48 PM

There is no way for a man to force a woman to get an abortion, other than perhaps punching her in the stomach, which a few men are more than willing to do.

Catch101 · 07-23-2009, 08:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Solumina

There is no way for a man to force a woman to get an abortion, other than perhaps punching her in the stomach, which a few men are more than willing to do.

So basically the man is screwed either way? He doesn't have a say in the abortion or keeping of his child.

Catch101 · 07-23-2009, 09:02 PM

I think the important issue here is making sure the person you are having sex with is someone you feel comfortable enough with to talk about such issues before ever having intercourse.

If you can't communicate on that level before hand, you shouldn't be having sex with them at all.

The consensus should come before hand not after the fact.

People need to be signing permission slips before ever having sex.

Catch101 · 07-23-2009, 09:07 PM

Correction:

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So basically the man is screwed either way? He doesn't TRULY have a say in the abortion or keeping of his child.

SiouxsiePernova · 07-24-2009, 01:02 AM

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Originally Posted by Catch101

Correction: So basically the man is screwed either way? He doesn't TRULY have a say in the abortion or keeping of his child.

Yes, because the final decision ultimately lies with the woman.

Godslayer Jillian · 07-24-2009, 01:06 AM

That's circular logic. The man has no say. Why? Because the woman has all the say.

Catch101 · 07-24-2009, 05:17 AM

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Originally Posted by SiouxsiePernova

Yes, because the final decision ultimately lies with the woman.

Ridiculous, if you ask me.

Women basically have the option of fucking you over or not (unless, like stated before, you talked about the issue thoroughly before hand). And that, in my opinion, is way too much power for a single person to yield.

Promiscuous sex (well, at least situations such as one night stands) should have died out a long time ago.

These days you need to have a damn good idea of the person you are dealing with, both physically and emotionally, before sex. There is just way to much at stake for such fleeting physical pleasure (lol, fleeting physical pleasure...*E-Brag* I hit it for HOURS at a time!).

Catch101 · 07-24-2009, 05:25 AM

And just to make it clear, I disagree with this bill.

Godslayer Jillian · 07-24-2009, 11:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Catch101

Women basically have the option of fucking you over or not (unless, like stated before, you talked about the issue thoroughly before hand). And that, in my opinion, is way too much power for a single person to yield.

And the other option is for men to have the power of fucking them over if they want an abortion or not.

JCC · 07-24-2009, 11:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Catch101

Promiscuous sex (well, at least situations such as one night stands) should have died out a long time ago.

Oh fuck off.

Catch101 · 07-24-2009, 12:18 PM

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Originally Posted by JCC

Oh fuck off.

Oh, contract HIV.

Catch101 · 07-24-2009, 12:21 PM

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Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

And the other option is for men to have the power of fucking them over if they want an abortion or not.

No. The option is talking it over before ever having sex to begin with. And if a bill such as this ever be considered, it would need to be signed and agreed upon before intercourse.

If there is a disagreement, don't have sex.

Catch101 · 07-24-2009, 12:29 PM

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Originally Posted by JCC

Oh fuck off.

(Sorry, didn't edit within the time span)

I am not against promiscuous sex AT ALL. I just want teenagers, young adults, and even adults to be mature (or maybe the word I am looking for is "safe") about the matter.

And by the way, I don't want you to contract HIV! (I was just being an obvious smart ass...) And do want you to enjoy the full benefits of being human.

Godslayer Jillian · 07-24-2009, 12:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Catch101

No. The option is talking it over before ever having sex to begin with. And if a bill such as this ever be considered, it would need to be signed and agreed upon before intercourse.

If there is a disagreement, don't have sex.

Wait. You want people to sign a fucking contract before fucking?

Catch101 · 07-24-2009, 12:56 PM

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Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Wait. You want people to sign a fucking contract before fucking?

As stupid as it sounds (and is), that is the only way I could EVER seeing a bill like that work.

But me, personally, no. I would like points and agreements to be made vocally, though I know that is pure fantasy when human nature takes over (depending on the situation, environment, etc).

Saya · 07-24-2009, 01:17 PM

I can't believe this. "If a woman has an abortion, she is murdering my child. If a woman keeps the child, then she will suck me dry with child support." Why is it assumed that a woman is out to fuck over a man? Being a single parent even if they have a man to "suck dry" is NOT at all easy. And when it comes down to pregnancy, once again its the woman who has to carry it. Yes its nice if a couple can talk it over, but even then it is still up to the woman how much his opinion matters to her. She has to deal with the consequences of childbirth or abortion, and the effects it will have on her body in the long term, and for a lot of women abortion is far easier and protects their quality of life, as well as their health.