Iraq Revisited

[WolfMoon]

Chris Rock is one of my favorite comedians. I love the fact that he's not afraid to say shit that pisses people off. Same reason I like Simon Cowell(from American Idol).


And there's absolutely nothing wrong with thanking people for helping you out. Even if it's something that 'anybody' would do. I don't think anyone goes around looking for thanks, but it's good to let people know that they're appreciated. Ya bastid!

[CptSternn]

I'm not taking away from their actions, just pointing out, they would look REAL bad if they sat there and did nothing. They basically had to help out.

But back on topic. I remember that there were various arguemnts about the WMD's, and some other threads are now reflecting that, so I'mm bringing the discussion right back here, with these two brilliant articles that came out today...

[b[White House Shelved Iraqi Trailers Report[/b]

http://news.**********/s/ap/20060412/...RtBHNlYwMxNjk5

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration claimed trailers captured soon after the fall of Baghdad proved Iraq had weapons of mass destruction even though U.S. intelligence officials had strong evidence that was not the case, The Washington Post reported.

When the two small trailers were seized in late May 2003, President Bush proclaimed a fresh victory for his administration in Iraq. The administration said they were mobile "biological laboratories," and Bush declared, "We have found the weapons of mass destruction."

The claim, repeated by top administration officials for months afterward, was cited at the time as supporting evidence for the decision to go to war.

But a secret mission to Iraq had already concluded the trailers had nothing to do with biological weapons. Leaders of the Pentagon-sponsored mission sent their findings to Washington in a report on May 27, 2003, two days before the president's statement, the Post reported on its Web site Tuesday night.

The brief initial report and a 122-page final report finished soon after that were shelved. Meanwhile, for nearly a year, administration and intelligence officials continued to publicly claim the trailers were weapons factories.

The actions of the special team were described to a Washington Post reporter in interviews with government officials and weapons experts who participated in the mission or had direct knowledge of it. None would agree to be named because of fears that would cost them their jobs. The final report remains classified.

*snip*

US shelved evidence discounting Iraq's WMD: report

http://news.**********/s/nm/20060412/...RtBHNlYwMxNjk5

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration publicly asserted that two trailers captured by U.S. troops in Iraq in May 2003 were mobile "biological laboratories" even after U.S. intelligence officials had evidence that it was not true, The Washington Post reported on Wednesday.

On May 29, 2003, President George W. Bush hailed the capture of the trailers, declaring "We have found the weapons of mass destruction."

But a Pentagon-sponsored fact-finding mission had already concluded that the trailers had nothing to do with biological weapons, the Post reported, citing government officials and weapons experts who participated in the secret mission or had direct knowledge of it.

The Post said the group's unanimous findings had been sent to the Pentagon in a field report, two days before the president's statement.

Bush cited the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction as the prime justification for invading Iraq. No such weapons ever were found.


So there it is, again, this time top pentagon officials saying the same thing everyone else was. I remember the other british report saying they were able to track the trailers to the manufacturer, and were able to prove they had no means to make any weapons with those trailers. I could dig up that article, but why? I think this pretty much sums it up.

[CptSternn]

Report: Rumsfeld allowed Guantanamo abuse
Defense secretary reportedly authorized degradation of al-Qaida detainee

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12319090/

Everyday, more news comes out about more lies that were told.

[CptSternn]

I'm going to continue to post all the 'good news' from Iraq as it is posted to the news sites.

In the meantime, does ANYONE think that america will 'win' the war? I mean, even the bush admin is now saying a draw is the BEST thing they can hope for. I mean, lets face it, they will never be 'at peace', there will never be a 'democracy', and the best america can hope for is the next Iraqi government won't hate america as much as the old one did. Something hard to fathom since all the damage they are causing.

Anyone else think america is just prolonging the inevitable, waiting for yet another black eye? I mean, since WW2, america hasn't won any wars, except for a few small countries in south america it invaded for profit (i.e. Panama, El Salvador, etc).

Anyone else feel that the trillions being pissed away in an un-winable war they can't win would be better spent helping the homeless, the poor, and fixing healthcare system there?

[Cambodian Breakfast]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Anyone else feel that the trillions being pissed away in an un-winable war they can't win would be better spent helping the homeless, the poor, and fixing healthcare system there?

Why sould you give a shit. I mean really. Do you live in america? Do you pay taxes? Worry about your county, let us worry about are's.

[CptSternn]

No, but we have a flood of Iraqi refugees coming in daily that my taxes here pay for, thanks to you. Since the US is refusing to help them, other nations are footing the bill.

Also, the price of oil and gas is rising for us as well as the rest of the world, thanks to the current state of affairs.

I could go on and on about how the Iraq war is making life difficult in many countries, but I just stick to the ones that effect me directly.

I also wonder why so many people there do nothing.

http://news.**********/s/afp/20060423...ltBHNlYwM3MTY-

CIA warned Bush of no WMD in Iraq: retired official

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The Central Intelligence Agency warned US President George W. Bush before the Iraq war that it had reliable information the government of Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, a retired CIA operative disclosed.

But the operative, Tyler Drumheller, said top White House officials simply brushed off the warning, saying they were "no longer interested" in intelligence and that the policy toward Iraq had been already set.

The disclosure, made in an interview with CBS's "60 Minutes" program due to be broadcast late Sunday, adds to earlier accusations that the Bush administration used intelligence selectively as it built its case for the March 2003 invasion of Iraq and the toppling of Saddam's regime.

The administration claimed in the run-up to the war that Baghdad had extensive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and was working clandestinely to build a nuclear arsenal, therefore, presenting a threat to the world.

[Blushing Heliophobe]

So enlighten us then, Sternn, as to what the fuck it is that you do to make the situation better.

[CptSternn]

First, the current administration should come clean and admit what they did. Tis the first start. Own up to their mistakes and criminal activity. Then at least, they might be able to save some face. I mean, with approval ratings at an all time low and dropping, no one thinks bush could lead a boy scout troop out of the mall, much less the soldiers out of Iraq, at least until he regains some creditability.

Then, an immediate pull out of all troops from Iraq would be in order.

Thats whats going to happen one way or another. Whether bush does it himself, or his own insiders in fear of being scapegoated leak enough information to get him impeached, he's got to admit the truth behind much of this.

Also, with the states now, five so far, passing state laws forcing their federal counterparts to start impeachment hearings, it's a matter of time before he is forced out of office and all those 'classified' documents will become public domain anyhow.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/bill...4&SessionID=50

[Binkie]

I'm sorry... maybe I read the question wrong, but I thought BH was asking what you were doing to make any of this better.

*crickets chirp*

[Blushing Heliophobe]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

No, but we have a flood of Iraqi refugees coming in daily that my taxes here pay for, thanks to you. Since the US is refusing to help them, other nations are footing the bill.

Also, the price of oil and gas is rising for us as well as the rest of the world, thanks to the current state of affairs.

I could go on and on about how the Iraq war is making life difficult in many countries, but I just stick to the ones that effect me directly.

I also wonder why so many people there do nothing.

Okay, I'll try again. What is it that YOU do to make everything that you're always complaining about better?

Oh wait, let me guess. Look at the shiny thing over...there?

[CptSternn]

Actually, as mentioned, I work with various political groups here including groups who work with refugees. I have helped not only get work for many of the influx of refugees, but also helped them get bank accounts, rent flats, and often help them fill out paperwork as many cannot write english and defniantely not Irish, so they are at a loss.

I help not only Iraqi's, but Kuwaiti's, Czechs, Slovaks, and others who come through the groups here.

That, and I have helped dozens of US troops go AWOL at Shannon airport. In fact, I help those troops contact their families, not directly, but teach them how to 'disappear' and still maintain contact. Anyone wishing to leave the US military can do so when in Ireland, as we are a neutral country and if you go AWOL and file for political status, you get it automatically until the review, which at current hasn't even started on any of the lads who have already gone through.

[Cambodian Breakfast]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

That, and I have helped dozens of US troops go AWOL at Shannon airport. In fact, I help those troops contact their families, not directly, but teach them how to 'disappear' and still maintain contact. Anyone wishing to leave the US military can do so when in Ireland, as we are a neutral country and if you go AWOL and file for political status, you get it automatically until the review, which at current hasn't even started on any of the lads who have already gone through.

That is the biggest load of shit I have ever heard! I am an active duty military member. You can never dissapear. They will find you one day. You are so full of shit. You don't have to lie to kick it.

Get with the program. The goverment has special task forces to find poeple the have gone AWOL. It will catch up with them one day. When it does it will be bad for them and bad for you, if you where telling the truth. Which I think that you are not. So you really don't have anything to worry about do you?

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by Cambodian Breakfast

That is the biggest load of shit I have ever heard! I am an active duty military member. You can never dissapear. They will find you one day. You are so full of shit. You don't have to lie to kick it.

Get with the program. The goverment has special task forces to find poeple the have gone AWOL. It will catch up with them one day. When it does it will be bad for them and bad for you, if you where telling the truth. Which I think that you are not. So you really don't have anything to worry about do you?

This PWNAGE brought to you by Cambodian Breakfast!

The best part of waking up...

[Cambodian Breakfast]

Is a little Cambodain in your cup.

[Sobeh]

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

This PWNAGE brought to you by Cambodian Breakfast!

I love when Wolfie's inner AOL net kiddie comes to the fore!

[Crom Crauch]

not to really but in here with my (focused) conservative veiwpoints... but has anyone ever check out maybe... a military news site?

http://www.strategypage.com <--that one's pretty useful, and has plenty of links too.

anyways, onto my veiwpoints.

1) Iraq is truly another Viet-Nam, but one that it is possible to win... just, y'know, unleash the American military to what it does best? none of this micro-managing stuff that the politicians love.

2) Sternn, you seem to be miserably mis-informed... and can we not talk about the economic and social policies of Mr. Bush? yeah, they don't seem too well formulated... and they aren't. But they aren't on topic, either so shut up about them.

That seems to be about it... I'll check in later with more of 'em, I prefer to be supported by accurate information... unlike you, Sternn...
By the way, the Iran/Iraq war lasted about 8 years

Thank you, Cambodian, for your excellent rebuttal.

[disorder]

Many of you may not have heard this, but it's all over the news here. A young Australian soldier was killed in Iraq... while cleaning his rifle.
Now, my imidiate thought was "Oh, it was his fault", but then I realised, if John Howard wasn't such a butt-kisser, he wouldn't have even been there!

I know that I', only 13 and I probably dont understand these thinks as much as I could, I've seen enough to know that our government sucks ass.

[Crom Crauch]

I'm very sorry to hear that... both that you live in Australia, and that the poor guy got killed when he was cleaning his weapon. (oh wait, saying the "w-word" isn't PC)

[Binkie]

Ireland... neutral? Heh. Mmmm'no, not according to international law. I mean, you can call yourself that, but frankly, it's not true. You don't let US armaments and troops freely refuel and pass through at your airports before going on to fight in various conflicts not approved by the UN and still call yourself neutral. Your country has facilitated our military operations in both Serbia and Iraq, and we have thanked your government very much for it. Also for the CIA flights, some suspected of 'renditions.' I mean, you can call Ireland neutral until you turn blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is, Ireland favors cooperating with the US military and CIA.

To date, no country has given refugee status or asylum to any US deserter. Those who have appleid have been denied. There are currently no reports of any member of the US armed services filing for asylum or refugee status in Ireland. Another hole in your claim shows as you do not know the process of seeking asylum in Ireland. Unlike other EU member nations, Ireland does "not a have a system of complementary protection," meaning no one is "automatically" granted any kind of status pending a full recommendation for refugee status. You can find this information on Amnesty's site (http://www.amnesty.ie/user/content/view/full/737/), or look it up directly from the Irish government's website (http://www.oasis.gov.ie/moving_count...?search=asylum).

Like Cambodian, I don't buy any of this. If it's even true, all you're doing is increasing their prison time, as you've helped them go from being AWOL to being deserters. But as I said, there are no reports of any US serviceman seeking refugee status or asylum in Ireland.

[Blushing Heliophobe]

Originally Posted by Binkie

Ireland... neutral? Heh. Mmmm'no, not according to international law. I mean, you can call yourself that, but frankly, it's not true. You don't let US armaments and troops freely refuel and pass through at your airports before going on to fight in various conflicts not approved by the UN and still call yourself neutral. Your country has facilitated our military operations in both Serbia and Iraq, and we have thanked your government very much for it. Also for the CIA flights, some suspected of 'renditions.' I mean, you can call Ireland neutral until you turn blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is, Ireland favors cooperating with the US military and CIA.

To date, no country has given refugee status or asylum to any US deserter. Those who have appleid have been denied. There are currently no reports of any member of the US armed services filing for asylum or refugee status in Ireland. Another hole in your claim shows as you do not know the process of seeking asylum in Ireland. Unlike other EU member nations, Ireland does "not a have a system of complementary protection," meaning no one is "automatically" granted any kind of status pending a full recommendation for refugee status. You can find this information on Amnesty's site (http://www.amnesty.ie/user/content/view/full/737/), or look it up directly from the Irish government's website (http://www.oasis.gov.ie/moving_count...?search=asylum).

Like Cambodian, I don't buy any of this. If it's even true, all you're doing is increasing their prison time, as you've helped them go from being AWOL to being deserters. But as I said, there are no reports of any US serviceman seeking refugee status or asylum in Ireland.

*swish*

Sternn - what's the difference between you and a troll?

[CptSternn]

Once again, just telling you whats happening outside yer borders. And once again, you don't believe me. I don't care, I mean, I'm helping americans be americans.

To date over 5,000 troops have been deemed officially AWOL since '03.

They don't keep tabs on who jumps ship where, but if you google enough, you will find more info.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/st...ectid=10126890

Campaigners say that despite pressure and the insults, if a new recruit follows the correct legal procedure he or she can usually get out of the military.

One of the biggest hurdles for those who want to leave is obtaining the correct information.

Usually the advice to those on the run is to turn themselves in. After 30 days of being Awol, a soldier is considered to be a deserter and an arrest warrant is issued. At that point a soldier can be returned to his or unit unit, court-martialled or given jail time or - and this is more often than not the outcome for new recruits - given a non-judicial punishment and a less-than-honourable discharge.

So anyone reading - note this. I know of two lads who were caught. Both were caught in america, in traffic stops. Thats the most common way they catch them. They give you a less than honourable discharge, roar at ye for a few hours, and thats about it. Not one person who has went AWOL and has been caught has got jail time.

So if you want to jump ship, feel free.

Bink -

You are correct. We are petitioning the government right now to fix this. We also track all incoming flights, and have helped in the rendition hearings as we have lads watching all flights into our airport. The government has not let one CIA fligth in since the rendition trials at the EU and UN started.

http://news.**********/s/ap/cia_secre...kxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Also note - the troops have now been kept from leaving their new designated area in Shannon airport. In fact, they are also required to wear 'street clothes'.

They can't leave because to many go AWOL, and those who don't, were getting their asses handed to them in the local pubs. Do a search on Shannon Nites, the local night club, and read about the 6 GI's who decided to wear their fatigues in, and get taken out on stretchers.

Same thing happened to the two who visited an Abracababra outside of the airport. Now they are restricted to staying in a 'designated' area away from the general population here.

Of course, in street clothes with no one watching, they can sneak out quite easily...


Either way, we all do our part, well, some do. I think most americans can be summed up in the new south park - all burying their heads in the sand.

Not that it matters - as america will LOSE the iraq war. There is NO good outcome, NO silver lining, and in the end, it will be yet another BLACK EYE bush allowed the nation to recieve.

After dragging down the reputation of the country in scandal after scandal, Abu Gharib, Abramoff, Enron, illegal wiretaps, rendition, and the list goes on, a now FAILED military campaign with a TRILLION dollar price tag, more bodies than 9/11, and 12,000+ men and women now handicapped for life, pushing the limits on an already strained healthcare system, well, it doesn't matter what I say, because the outcome is going to be BAD and you can't sugar-coat it no matter what personal attacks you send my way.

[Blushing Heliophobe]

Wrong.

We're not supposed to wear our 'fatigues' (not proper terminology but there you have it) except for WORK or TRANSIT TO WORK/HOME. That's just part of our uniform regulation.

Now, we are allowed to wear our 'dress' uniforms on a night out, traveling home to see the family, etc.

Except that since September 11, we have had stricter control on where we wear our uniforms.

Part of it is because of losers like you who start up conversations just like this to annoy/harm those who serve their country - usually because they have inner conflict at the fact that their own country sucks, or they are too pathetic too join the military themselves.

Part of it is to protect us from terrorism.

It's NOT to keep us from running away. They have THE LAW (not sneakers) for that.

Google the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Does it smell like ass everytime you open your mouth? 'Cause Sternn, you're 'feckin' full of it.

[CptSternn]

Really?

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/.../1ustroops.jpg

I can get you more pictures if you want. With faces, name tags, and other identifying marks. We catalogue all the troops and the planes that bring em in.

http://www.irishantiwar.org

[Cambodian Breakfast]

Are you stupid? Those men are going to, or returing for the war zone. Once agine you are talking out of your ass. You don't even say where there are at, or have proof. Thanks for trying though. Didn't work agine.

[Binkie]

Heh... wow... just... wow.

"Shannon Nites?" Google and Ireland have never heard of it. Did you mean, "Shannon Knights?" Lol. Again, googled it along with "+soldier" to see if anything turned up. Nothing. Sounds like shit got made up again.

As for the BDUs that those soldiers are wearing, that's in an airport if I'm not mistaken. Shannon Airport, as there's the duty free sign in the background. As Cambodian already explained, these guys are going to or coming from a warzone - hence the BDUs. I see marines wearing them all the time in US airports when they're traveling back home.

As for your "No fear" statement about deserters, the guy up in Canada who was just denied asylum/refugee status up there is facing up to five years prison time when he ends up back on US soil pending a court martial. As for what happened to your imaginary friends, that's a cute story. According to laws that are still in effect, one can be put to death for deserting the US armed forces (used last in 1945). So go on and candy coat it with examples you can't back up. All you're doing is increasing prison time when you try and lure people away (which is probably giving you too much credit - as it seems more viable that you made this up after reading about a small group, that are currently on trial, who made a tiny publicity hype about trying to do this).