McDonald's unfairly dismissed worker for giving a colleague free cheese, says Dutch c

[Lochnar]

Originally Posted by Despanan

it's not like you're buying burgers from Umbrella.

LOL fuck the short post shit

[blood_raven88]

who wants to work at mcdonalds anyway.

does anyone know anything about the whole "100% beef" kerfluffle that i hear about every now and then... the idea that the beef mcdonalds uses comes from a company called "100% beef" so they're allowed to call their burgers 100% beef.

[Despanan]

does anyone know anything about the whole "100% beef" kerfluffle that i hear about every now and then... the idea that the beef mcdonalds uses comes from a company called "100% beef" so they're allowed to call their burgers 100% beef.

Here, let me google that for you

[JCC]

That court ruling is pretty stupid. Of course it's only a piece of cheese; it's McDonalds. It's not like an employee of McDonalds will be able to exploit his position to give his friend a free sofa. Since McDonalds sells cheeseburgers, it's not 'only' a slice of cheese, it's a company product. If I was the manager I wouldn't make a fuss about it, but it's hardly the injustice of the century.

[CptSternn]

How is it stupid? The value of the cheese is relevant to the matter. It's like if you took a pen from the bank or post office and then got arrested for robbery and were given 20 years for theft.

Value is relevant. What is also relevant is that in Europe if your sacked the government then has to pay you, and you are no longer paying taxes. For the cost of a few cents the government now has to cover the cost of living for another adult because a company took issue with an employee giving away something that costs pennies?

It's like the littering laws. You can't be fined for say throwing a cigarette butt out on the street, but if you dump a bucket of them you can. You wouldn't want to be imprisoned for dropping a wrapper or something trivial. I'm against littering, just using this as an example.

The company over reacted. That was no good reason for dismissal. Had he been giving cheese to everyone he knew or giving away free meals, thats a different story. But we are talking about one slice of mass produced McDonalds cheese slices. A couple cent if it cost anything. No reason to take away a mans livelihood, especially since he didn't even steal the whole cheeseburger, just a slice of cheese.

[Tam Li Hua]

I realize that McD overseas is usually a little more illustrious and high-end than McD here. I realize that, and know it, but I can't help asking myself, "Why would someone actually sue over not being able to work there any more?"

And yes, I know all the reasons why, but still...it's McDonald's. The place that has a rather frightening [and possibly pedo'philiac clown] as its spokesperson.

It's all so strange and convoluted to me. x_x;;;;

Originally Posted by Despanan

none the less, it's not like you're buying burgers from Umbrella.

Lulz.

I dunno; I tend to think that if you buy a McD cheeseburger, you deserve whatever passes for food there.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

How is it stupid? The value of the cheese is relevant to the matter. It's like if you took a pen from the bank or post office and then got arrested for robbery and were given 20 years for theft.

No, that is trying to make your case by using a really bad exaggeration. It's more like you stole a pen from the bank and then they fired you from your teller job (hey, integrity in a bank job ... you think that is important?)

In fact, as a person who used to hire and fire people in Wisconsin and Texas (completely different laws), in any retail environment (restaurant, video game store or payday loan office) the idea of having employees that can be trusted with the company's assets is important. Would I fire someone for giving away a slice of cheese? First offense, probably not. But it would bother me greatly. Especially if the company policy about ethical handling of company assets is made clear to each employee when they are hired (as I'm sure it is at McDonald's.) It becomes an issue of character.

And the cost of what was stolen isn't as significant as some of you would think. One person said that you shouldn't get fired for giving one slice of cheese away, but you should get fired for giving a bunch away. So that suggests we can have a debate about how many slices of cheese would justify a termination. Or how many occurrences.

As a former manager, I don't care if someone takes a dime, a dollar or a twenty dollar bill out of my till. The thinking runs through my head, "Today a dime was okay to take. What will be okay tomorrow?" And that slice of cheese is worth about a dime.

I suspect the manager made note of previous issues with the employee, and the cheese was just the last straw. And they probably lost in court because the manager didn't do a good job of documenting those previous issues.

But the judgement for 5 months of pay is what mystifies me. How can being fired for stealing something, anything, be considered unjust?

[Corpsey]

Methinks extenuating circumstances were in place here, Ben. You can only speculate.

[Malice In Wonderland]

Originally Posted by Despanan

none the less, it's not like you're buying burgers from Umbrella.

Zombie Burgers.

[Saya]

A slice of cheese costs mere cents which when you count employee discount its hardly anything at all. Its funny, I know a girl who got fired for a very similar reason way back when I worked at a Wendy's, but the supervisor who ratted her out didn't get fired for purposefully putting hot sauce in her soda once (she has a stomach problem and she had to take a few days off due to excruciating pain, she complained about it but nothing happened), called me a bitch several times in front of other employees and broke the deep friers from goofing off never got into any trouble at all. Fast food places from what I understand are usually ridiculous jobs in the first place that labour boards should be all over.

I can only see this being justifiable if the employee was known for stealing shit all the time, which doesn't seem to be the case since they said a written warning was needed, so we can assume the employee got no formal warnings before.

Sorry some of you live in shitty states where people have the right to fire you willy nilly, but luckily other places have good labour laws and it looks like she's from such a place.

[blindNsect]

If someone put hot sauce in my soda I would fuk zem upz.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by Saya

I can only see this being justifiable if the employee was known for stealing shit all the time, which doesn't seem to be the case since they said a written warning was needed, so we can assume the employee got no formal warnings before.

I take exception with the notion that someone should be caught "stealing shit all the time" before it's reasonable to fire them. Once is enough in my book. If the employee handbook says do not steal from us, and you read it when you accept the job, that's your written notice. And I'm a little disappointed with the notion that you have to have printed notice in your employee handbook saying "please don't steal from us." Why shouldn't that be understood?

And Saya, none of this makes that supervisor's behavior right either. But that is a separate issue, and that supervisor should have been disciplined for those actions as well.

Corpsey, I suspect you are right about the extenuating circumstances.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

I take exception with the notion that someone should be caught "stealing shit all the time" before it's reasonable to fire them. Once is enough in my book. If the employee handbook says do not steal from us, and you read it when you accept the job, that's your written notice. And I'm a little disappointed with the notion that you have to have printed notice in your employee handbook saying "please don't steal from us." Why shouldn't that be understood?

And Saya, none of this makes that supervisor's behavior right either. But that is a separate issue, and that supervisor should have been disciplined for those actions as well.

Corpsey, I suspect you are right about the extenuating circumstances.

What I meant was someone who has taken a load of burgers out the door without ringing it in does deserve to get fired on the spot. Someone neglecting to charge a few extra cents for a slice of cheese should not get the immediate boot out the door especially if its only the first offense. Sorry, here in Canadaland you have to give warnings before you fire someone unless its for a serious issue like actually stealing something of value, you know, something other than a slice of cheese or a paper clip or a pen. It boggles my mind that its acceptable in other places for people to lose their livelihood out of the smallest little mistakes.

[Underwater Ophelia]

I think firing someone for this is completely legitimate. In my store, if you steal a penny or ten thousand pennies, you're fired. You have integrity or you don't.

[blindNsect]

That's such a Jewish rule.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by Saya

Sorry, here in Canadaland you have to give warnings before you fire someone unless its for a serious issue like actually stealing something of value, you know, something other than a slice of cheese or a paper clip or a pen. It boggles my mind that its acceptable in other places for people to lose their livelihood out of the smallest little mistakes.

This has nothing to do with where I live. It has to do with a mindset. I don't believe there is that much difference between stealing a dime or stealing a dollar or stealing twenty dollars. I want the people who don't think it's okay to steal anything (regardless of the dollar value of the item in question) working for me.

If you have two friends, and one feels it's okay to take a dime off your dresser when they need one and the other thinks to ask if they can borrow a dime from you, you know which one you are going to trust more. And in managing employees, feeling secure in trusting those employees is paramount.

But Saya, I suspect you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

This has nothing to do with where I live. It has to do with a mindset. I don't believe there is that much difference between stealing a dime or stealing a dollar or stealing twenty dollars. I want the people who don't think it's okay to steal anything (regardless of the dollar value of the item in question) working for me.

If you have two friends, and one feels it's okay to take a dime off your dresser when they need one and the other thinks to ask if they can borrow a dime from you, you know which one you are going to trust more. And in managing employees, feeling secure in trusting those employees is paramount.

But Saya, I suspect you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.

I agree with you completely on this.

[Ben Lahnger]

It may also satisfy you to note that when I did some researching around the web I found that my opinion was definitely in the minority.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Ben Lahnger

It may also satisfy you to note that when I did some researching around the web I found that my opinion was definitely in the minority.

Ugh, why would that satisfy me? I want more people to care about integrity!

[Amunet]

I think stealing is stealing, but if the chick's intention wasn't malicious, I really believe a write up or something would suffice. This issue is blown wayyyy out of proportion on both parts....

But I do agree with Ben in the fact that management needs to be able to trust their employees 100 percent.

[blindNsect]

No, the workers should be able to trust Management.

[Amunet]

Originally Posted by blindNsect

No, the workers should be able to trust Management.

it goes both ways. (giggity)

harmony in the workplace is ideal...
does it happen in a lot of cases?
of course not. =)

[Ben Lahnger]

Ah, the age old conflict. The proletariat cannot control the means of production.

[Ben Lahnger]

And who wants to stand in the way of this?

[blindNsect]

I LLol'd a bit