Despanan's Current Headspace

[ape descendant]

You know, that is a question I've often wondered, myself. It sounds like a rather miserable existence to me, to constantly try to avoid any sort of attachment. There are things IMO that are worth being attached to, I think craving and desire ride in the same cart with attachment pretty much.

However, I'm not every other person, so I suppose its something I may never really understand, that turns out to be perfectly valid for some one else.

[Hearts_Purple]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

You know, that is a question I've often wondered, myself. It sounds like a rather miserable existence to me, to constantly try to avoid any sort of attachment. There are things IMO that are worth being attached to, I think craving and desire ride in the same cart with attachment pretty much.

However, I'm not every other person, so I suppose its something I may never really understand, that turns out to be perfectly valid for some one else.

I grew up with very little so I tend to prize the things that I've worked to get or maintain. Whether it's something as big as a marriage or trivial as a pint of ice cream on a rainy day I can't seperate 'desire' from 'life'. I desire to live so that I can achieve the things I want in life, big and small.

If I didn't desire, life would be very boring. I tend to stick with the Taoist philosophy of no good without evil, no pain without pleasue, we are all conneccted in the universe..etc.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Sinjob

I lurked your website and skimmed through/read some poems, you're good. Real good. You look and sound like a poet, particularly in your picture of you reciting, haha.

And woah.

We seem to have a shitload in common:
-My Dad was a naval officer (though by the time I was born he was long out)
-Both raised Catholic in an upper class family (still being raised in my case, two years to go!)
-Distaste in religion but turning to an alternative for the WRONG reasons
-Been in and out of the south (AL and GA in my case)
-Slavic descent (Not 100% in your case but you mentioned your Mom being Russian Orthodox)

Of course the most prominent dissimilarity is that you're at the place currently I hope to be when I leave my home down South: New York City. And I've always had the premonition (which I try not to not let it get to me nowadays) of being the young starving writer in the city, which you seem to pretty much be at.

Plus I see you hiking, too. I can tell you I haven't never achieved a more liberating feeling than being lost in the Appalachian Trail (I used to go to a reform school in dumbfuck North GA and the little people there were some of the most ignorant).

Great minds think alike. Cool story bro (and I mean that)

Dude...Thanks.

and yeah, being a starving writer in NY, I've never been happier. This city kicks ass.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Fuck New York!

[Sinjob]

You're welcome.

And...

Ahh COME ON Portrait Of Sanity!!!!

But I KIND OF understand where you're coming from. Chi Town born '93 WHAT SON

[PortraitOfSanity]

It's not just because I'm from Chicago, I've been to NY a couple times, and it's absolutely miserable. I just hate everything about that city.

[Sinjob]

Well we all know Chicago IS cleaner.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Chicago is superior in every way.

We even won the World Series without spending the GDP of Africa, South America and Australia combined on our team.

[Sinjob]

Why'd you move?

[PortraitOfSanity]

Boredom, and I got a job at Snowmass for ski season.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

You know, that is a question I've often wondered, myself. It sounds like a rather miserable existence to me, to constantly try to avoid any sort of attachment. There are things IMO that are worth being attached to, I think craving and desire ride in the same cart with attachment pretty much.

However, I'm not every other person, so I suppose its something I may never really understand, that turns out to be perfectly valid for some one else.

You're assuming that Buddhism demands that you avoid any and all attatchment. Once again you are arguing from ignorance and manufacturing a straw-man (and honestly, you kind of sound like when christian preachers try to take issue with buddhism)

Buddhism is the middle way. Taking it's teachings to the utter extreme and then objecting to them isn't really a fair way to challenge the idea.

[Hearts_Purple]

Originally Posted by Despanan

You're assuming that Buddhism demands that you avoid any and all attatchment. Once again you are arguing from ignorance and manufacturing a straw-man (and honestly, you kind of sound like when christian preachers try to take issue with buddhism)

Buddhism is the middle way. Taking it's teachings to the utter extreme and then objecting to them isn't really a fair way to challenge the idea.

I admit that I am fairly ignorant of Buddhism.

[Saya]

We call it attachment and desire in english conversation today but the original word used was "thirst." We all have desires and there's no way to really get rid of them. I'm always going to desire food when hungry, water when thirsty, thats natural. Its the human way of moving from desire to desire that causes suffering. For example, many people think "I cannot be truly happy until I have found a husband/wife, have kids and buy a house." And of course when they have that they are happy for a while, but then they just move on to other things "I won't be happy until we get the house paid off, I won't be happy until we buy a better car, I won't be happy until I get a better job." Endlessly we wander wanting everything and not feeling satisfied and complete until we get it.

Its perfectly fine to want to get married, have kids, have a home, but what Buddhism says is that the thirst, and placing our happiness on that distracts us from the wonderful things we have in the now, and prevents us from living our lives fully. People can ruin themselves trying to get something they want sometimes, or ruin themselves because they can't get it. Thats an extreme of it but most people I know just move from one desire to another without thinking about it.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Chicago is superior in every way.

Yes. that's why Chicago is known as "the greatest city in the world" and regarded as the global center of art and culture.

Oh wait...

[ape descendant]

Originally Posted by Saya

We call it attachment and desire in english conversation today but the original word used was "thirst." We all have desires and there's no way to really get rid of them. I'm always going to desire food when hungry, water when thirsty, thats natural. Its the human way of moving from desire to desire that causes suffering. For example, many people think "I cannot be truly happy until I have found a husband/wife, have kids and buy a house." And of course when they have that they are happy for a while, but then they just move on to other things "I won't be happy until we get the house paid off, I won't be happy until we buy a better car, I won't be happy until I get a better job." Endlessly we wander wanting everything and not feeling satisfied and complete until we get it.

Its perfectly fine to want to get married, have kids, have a home, but what Buddhism says is that the thirst, and placing our happiness on that distracts us from the wonderful things we have in the now, and prevents us from living our lives fully. People can ruin themselves trying to get something they want sometimes, or ruin themselves because they can't get it. Thats an extreme of it but most people I know just move from one desire to another without thinking about it.

That makes much more sense.

Perhaps I should pick up a book and study a bit, this sounds a lot like my own personal attitude. "Happiness is an attitude, acquiring things doesn't make one happy, one has to learn how to be happy within one's self where one is already at, with what one already has. Otherwise, nothing will really bring lasting happiness."

If one has a desire to study Buddhism, where is a good place to start?

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Yes. that's why Chicago is known as "the greatest city in the world" and regarded as the global center of art and culture.

Oh wait...

Pretty sure you're thinking of Paris.

[Saya]

The book I usually really recommend is The Morning Star by Robert Aitken, its a good primer and his parents came from Japan, I think, but he is American so he knows the religion and the culture it came from really well, but he can explain it in lay men's terms very well too so its easy to understand. He also isn't a monk so you don't get any of the "don't have sex unless you want kids" shit. Its a Zen book but he explains all the denominations in the introduction, the changes made to the story and the history of the spread of Buddhism and then there's essays on interpretations of koans and Buddhist poetry, and then general essays he has on different issues, like karma and affinity and social change.

That said if you can't find it locally or don't want to order it online, just stay away from the ones that seem to be selling something, like I'll never understand the BUDDHISM IS PUNK shit, there's Buddhist "self help" books, there's even a dieting book out now. After that anthologies are good and usually will contain an introduction chapter, my first book on the subject was a five dollar "The Essential Zen" anthology which was fine for an intro. Thich Nhat Hanh has a bajillion books but they tend to be rather specific, I never it read it but I hear Zen Keys might be good for an introduction.

[ape descendant]

Thank you, I shall have to look for The Morning star, it sounds like an interesting read either way.

I think my problem is that the info that I have regarding Buddhism comes from sources that would likely be equivalent to Silver Ravenwolf...

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Pretty sure you're thinking of Paris.

I would be if it was 1913.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by Despanan

I would be if it was 1913.

Yea, and I wouldn't want to live in Paris circa 1913 either, unless of course, I was to die before the 1940 invasion...

[Despanan]

The point is Paris hasn't been relevant for nearly a century.

But I understand. Not everyone has the stones to live in NYC.

[PortraitOfSanity]

It's not that I don't have the stones, it's that I have a brain.

[Despanan]

If you had a brain you wouldn't be wasting your time in the Midwest.

[Sinjob]

Hey hey..Let's not diss all the hard-working corn farmers, snow shovelers, and overly friendly people of the world. They don't deserve that.

Even though they are the ones who get fucked over venturing outside of their middle ground home.

[ape descendant]

Yeah... *sniff*

Don't forget beef ranchers, peach farmers and forest rangers....

*Colorado is part of the western U.S. the midwest ends at Kansas.*