americans

[Drake Dun]

What would be the difference between those ceremonies that are legally accepted and that those ceremonies wouldn't be legally recognized as the government will have nothing to do with marriage?

The difference is that the former would not exist. All ceremonies would fall into the latter category. Government would not opine either that gay marriages were legit or not - it would simply have no opinions on or concept of marriage, the same way as right now it has no opinions on or concept of friendship.

Any rights traditionally associated with marriage could be provided for through other means. For example, the right to make decisions on behalf of your medically incapacitated spouse could be handled through a streamlined power of attorney system, which wouldn't involve anymore paperwork or formalities than marriage does anyway.

I'm surprised that this option would not occur to an avowed anarchist...

Drake

[jacquelinetm]

I can't believe that this thread is still alive and well. Then again, there's a lot to talk about when it concerns American/Americans... thanks to Dubya.

[Godslayer Jillian]

First of all, the 'if I can't marry, no one should' idea sounds extremely childish to me.
Second, why would someone that believes marriage shouldn't be a legality care if it is legal in some cases?
A symbol is a symbol.
Example: English is not America's official language. They're thinking of making it the legal language. Did making it official change anything? (if English has already become the official language, then imagine this example a couple of years ago and it's still appliable)

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Tha Duckman

You wanna know some thing FUNNY? I'm living with a friend of Sterrn's! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

Who? Where? What?

[Binkie]

In case you missed it (I know you didn't), Sternn:

Originally Posted by Frankenscott

So... In the time you were in the US you were in the military, played semi-pro rugby, sat on the board of directors with a Fortune 500 company, and was a Senior Administrator until George Bush send your job overseas.You claim to be an MCSE, but don't list the MCPs associated with the specific track your MCSE defines, claim to have taught "MCSE" classes (there is no such thing considering an MCSE is a suite of MCPs) the only cert you list is the CompTIA A+ (which could be passed by a monkey with a wiffleball bat) ..Oh, and you collected Porsches and raced one of them (the link goes to Wiki, not a picture of you with your "1 of 2000" 944) until you moved to Ireland to be a DJ and a non-threatening bouncer ...and to argue with teenagers in forums

[Vako]

I love America, and I like Americans, even if they are "big, ugly, dumb Americans".

[Drake Dun]

First of all, the 'if I can't marry, no one should' idea sounds extremely childish to me.

Sounds childish to me, too. Why, did someone suggest that?

Second, why would someone that believes marriage shouldn't be a legality care if it is legal in some cases?

I can think of a few reasons, some of which are hypothetical and some of which are reasons which matter to me. One would be principle. Why should government decide who can marry and who cannot? Another would be benefits. Why should people who are not married be considered second class citizens?

Example: English is not America's official language. They're thinking of making it the legal language. Did making it official change anything? (if English has already become the official language, then imagine this example a couple of years ago and it's still appliable)

It might, depending on what we mean by "official". I have heard that in French Quebec there are laws against putting English on signs and advertisements and so forth unless there is also French, and the French is in a larger font. That sounds like a pretty important difference to me.

Drake

[Binkie]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

It might, depending on what we mean by "official". I have heard that in French Quebec there are laws against putting English on signs and advertisements and so forth unless there is also French, and the French is in a larger font. That sounds like a pretty important difference to me.

Actually that's quite true, or it was for a while. The film starring John Candy titled, "Canadian Bacon," poked fun at that whole concept.

I don't remember the plot anymore, but I know a few Americans were extremely upset with Canada and Canadians for some reason. They ended up driving up north with a van that had, "Fuck Canadians!" / "Fuck Canada!" and other slanderous logans spray painted onto the side. Police officer pulls them over, makes them step out of the van and write all that again in French on their vehicle. :P

[raggedyanne]

Government is sort part of a marriage. Combined estates and such. How else would you get those lovely tax deductions that come with kids (or so my mom says). It's also a a way to keep track of the population. I don't think they should dictate who you love or marry, just the taxes/ census stuff. I fully support gay marrige. My two best guy friends happen to love each other very much.

[Drake Dun]

Raising children creates a dependency situation, which government has chosen to reward. Presumably if there is a single person and that person adopts a child, or a couple adopts a child and one of them dies shortly after, the remaining person is still entitled to those tax benefits, right? That's because it's not about the marriage. It's about the parenthood. So you just have tax breaks for parents and guardians.

Unless I'm mistaken, the only property arrangement unique to marriage in the U.S. is community property, which doesn't even exist in 42 of the states. In those states where it does exist, open it to people in general so that two (or more) people can mutually opt into it. Problem solved.

I still don't see why marriage should be a government institution. It would be like if there was a system for registering friendship, but they didn't let people of different ethnic backgrounds register. Everybody would whine that they should be able to register, but if you think about it, the problem wouldn't be that they couldn't register - it would be that the whole absurd system even existed in the first place.

Government is not your mommy. It's a monopoly of violence. When it gives a nod of approval to a relationship deeply personal in your life, it's not an accolade. It's a violation and insult.

Drake

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Binkie

Actually that's quite true, or it was for a while. The film starring John Candy titled, "Canadian Bacon," poked fun at that whole concept.

I don't remember the plot anymore, but I know a few Americans were extremely upset with Canada and Canadians for some reason. They ended up driving up north with a van that had, "Fuck Canadians!" / "Fuck Canada!" and other slanderous logans spray painted onto the side. Police officer pulls them over, makes them step out of the van and write all that again in French on their vehicle. :P

That funny enough is one of my personal favorite films. Why? Not because it was written and directed by Michael Moore, but the premise behind the film.

The film was done in 1995, YEARS before ol gw, but damned if the premise behind the movie wasn't eerily parallel to today.

The new president in the film, which is the son of another president he gets adivse from (spooky already right?) wants to return to the days of the cold war when america had a booming defence industry (which lead to a booming economy), lots of solidarity, a common enemy, lived in constant fear of annihilation, but americans were happy.

He decides to start a war, randomly picks a nation and they then decide to fabricate evidence to start the war. They pick Canada. They release bogus new bulletins, make up stories in the press, and even go to the UN with this stuff.

Like I said, this film from 1995 is well worth another watch today - it is quite freakin spooky considering when it was made and the plot and how it pretty much parallels the whole Iraq fiasco today.

In the end a half dozen drunks listening to country music are the only eejits dumb enough to buy the bogus news stories so they go off on their own with shotguns in hand to conduct terrorist operations inside Canada to stop the Canadian threat they see so much about on the news.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109370/

[Binkie]

Iraq? Isn't it more like Afghanistan though, Sternn? You know, kind of like how "Die Hard 2" was a total parallel to the remote controled airplanes that the US government used to attack the World Trade Centers so Bush could start a phony war with a soverign government in Afghanistan (i.e. everything you said in the 9/11 conspiracy thread):

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Ever see Die Hard 2? Remember the scene where the terrorists crash the plane using the remote? They go into a whole diatribe on the exact system. It wasn't hollywood magic, they based it on the actual technology in use.

Hey, at least you got the plot right with "Canadian Bacon." I'm sure it became one of your "personal favs" this morning when you went to look it up so you wouldn't look like an ass again when you completely fucked up the plot summary.

By the way, how do you respond to this?

Originally Posted by Frankenscott

So... In the time you were in the US you were in the military, played semi-pro rugby, sat on the board of directors with a Fortune 500 company, and was a Senior Administrator until George Bush send your job overseas.You claim to be an MCSE, but don't list the MCPs associated with the specific track your MCSE defines, claim to have taught "MCSE" classes (there is no such thing considering an MCSE is a suite of MCPs) the only cert you list is the CompTIA A+ (which could be passed by a monkey with a wiffleball bat) ..Oh, and you collected Porsches and raced one of them (the link goes to Wiki, not a picture of you with your "1 of 2000" 944) until you moved to Ireland to be a DJ and a non-threatening bouncer ...and to argue with teenagers in forums

[Vako]

I like America. It may be full of "big, ugly, dumb Americans", but I like it. It's got good things like the Bill of Rights. I'd rather make an ass out of myself in this country than in some other shithole. And so what if most of us are fat? Well, I'm slender and in shape and I am good at geography. This American can find Iraq on a map. Then when I see it, I'm glad I wasn't born there.

But what I mean to say is, logging onto a forum that is supposed to be about Gothic culture and literature, and seeing some expatriot Mick put down the country I love and stand for is... <click>

[Vyvian Blackthorne]

wE NeEEd anarchyz!!!!! (We is for Wales)

[ArtificialOne]

I love you vako, if I wasn't a guy and homophobic..lol
I'd kiss you.

[CptSternn]

Another great article today...

Army Giving More Waivers in Recruiting

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/14/us...syahoo&emc=rss

The number of waivers granted to Army recruits with criminal backgrounds has grown about 65 percent in the last three years, increasing to 8,129 in 2006 from 4,918 in 2003, Department of Defense records show.

During that time, the Army has employed a variety of tactics to expand its diminishing pool of recruits. It has offered larger enlistment cash bonuses, allowed more high school dropouts and applicants with low scores on its aptitude test to join, and loosened weight and age restrictions.

It has also increased the number of so-called “moral waivers” to recruits with criminal pasts, even as the total number of recruits dropped slightly. The sharpest increase was in waivers for serious misdemeanors, which make up the bulk of all the Army’s moral waivers. These include aggravated assault, burglary, robbery and vehicular homicide.

The number of waivers for felony convictions also increased, to 11 percent of the 8,129 moral waivers granted in 2006, from 8 percent...

11.7% of the us military, or 125,525 since 2003, are waivers meaning they were either too fat, stupid, or had a criminal background but were allowed into the us military anyway.

Aaah...the 'new' us military.

Good to see they don't let things like manslaughter, heroin use, burglary, robbery, and that sort of thing get in the way of the 'war on terror'.

binkie - one would think with them letting in so many under qualified criminal persons they would let you in, seeings how YOU said they turned you down due to your 'mental issues'. You must be REALLY bat-shit feckin' crazy to be denied entry when these nutters are getting in, eh?

[Binkie]

Hmmm.. are you trying to avoid that quote, Sternn? Should I post it again? I should:

Originally Posted by Frankenscott

So... In the time you were in the US you were in the military, played semi-pro rugby, sat on the board of directors with a Fortune 500 company, and was a Senior Administrator until George Bush send your job overseas.You claim to be an MCSE, but don't list the MCPs associated with the specific track your MCSE defines, claim to have taught "MCSE" classes (there is no such thing considering an MCSE is a suite of MCPs) the only cert you list is the CompTIA A+ (which could be passed by a monkey with a wiffleball bat) ..Oh, and you collected Porsches and raced one of them (the link goes to Wiki, not a picture of you with your "1 of 2000" 944) until you moved to Ireland to be a DJ and a non-threatening bouncer ...and to argue with teenagers in forums

Not sure what the hang up is on this. Did those acronyms confuse you? Honestly, just come to terms with what you really are, let the tears fall, and move on with life. Maybe some honest debate can happen again when you come to terms with the fact that you're a pathelogical liar and take steps to better yourself as a human being.

[Frankenscott]

Originally Posted by Binkie

Hmmm.. are you trying to avoid that quote, Sternn? Should I post it again? I should:



Not sure what the hang up is on this. Did those acronyms confuse you? Honestly, just come to terms with what you really are, let the tears fall, and move on with life. Maybe some honest debate can happen again when you come to terms with the fact that you're a pathelogical liar and take steps to better yourself as a human being.

I've been addressing some of the things sternn brings up but he tends to not respond, he seems to make-up facts to suit his point of view. So I read through some public info so I have a grip on who I'm dealing with. I wanted to see how he would respond, but he dosen't seem to respond when he confonted with his own contradictory statements. I just pointing out obvious lies... (BTW Sternn, your website loads like molasses, maybe you can have a professional look over the code for you)

[Binkie]

Sadly this has been going on for years now. He comes at everyone with the tough guy rhetoric, but crumbles like a NASCAR bumper under the slightest amount of pressure. That article about pathological liars pretty much sums it up. :P

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Frankenscott

I've been addressing some of the things sternn brings up but he tends to not respond, he seems to make-up facts to suit his point of view. So I read through some public info so I have a grip on who I'm dealing with. I wanted to see how he would respond, but he dosen't seem to respond when he confonted with his own contradictory statements. I just pointing out obvious lies... (BTW Sternn, your website loads like molasses, maybe you can have a professional look over the code for you)

Actually I just ignore binkies childish attempts to bring made-up falsehoods into discussions while avoiding the topic.

I mean, if we want to focus on real-life issues here, she herself said she 'tried' to join the military a while back and was 'denied' because she had 'mental issues'. She also claims her mother works for ol gw at the state department and was fired for 'inappropriate conduct'.

Any chance your mother was another Foley there binkster?

[Frankenscott]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Actually I just ignore binkies childish attempts to bring made-up falsehoods into discussions while avoiding the topic.

I mean, if we want to focus on real-life issues here, she herself said she 'tried' to join the military a while back and was 'denied' because she had 'mental issues'. She also claims her mother works for ol gw at the state department and was fired for 'inappropriate conduct'.

Any chance your mother was another Foley there binkster?

What about my childish question?

[Binkie]

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

When caught in a lie, pathological liars tend to become hostile...

Originally Posted by CptSternn

I mean, if we want to focus on real-life issues here, she herself said she 'tried' to join the military a while back and was 'denied' because she had 'mental issues'. She also claims her mother works for ol gw at the state department and was fired for 'inappropriate conduct'.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

or try to disregard the fact they lied; often playing it off as a joke.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Actually I just ignore binkies childish attempts to bring made-up falsehoods into discussions while avoiding the topic.

Hmmm........

[Binkie]

Originally Posted by Frankenscott

What about my childish question?

For someone who constantly talks about ADHD, he sure has a hard time staying focused here.

Here it is again, Sternn:

Originally Posted by Frankenscott

So... In the time you were in the US you were in the military, played semi-pro rugby, sat on the board of directors with a Fortune 500 company, and was a Senior Administrator until George Bush send your job overseas.You claim to be an MCSE, but don't list the MCPs associated with the specific track your MCSE defines, claim to have taught "MCSE" classes (there is no such thing considering an MCSE is a suite of MCPs) the only cert you list is the CompTIA A+ (which could be passed by a monkey with a wiffleball bat) ..Oh, and you collected Porsches and raced one of them (the link goes to Wiki, not a picture of you with your "1 of 2000" 944) until you moved to Ireland to be a DJ and a non-threatening bouncer ...and to argue with teenagers in forums

.....................

[Binkie]

Looking back on your tirade here, where the hell did you even get this from?

Originally Posted by CptSternn

She also claims her mother works for ol gw at the state department and was fired for 'inappropriate conduct'.

Oh, and don't try to sell me on this by your word alone - we all know that's a joke. I want to see the post in these forums where you got this information from, otherwise you're just adding to the long list of lies you've already racked up. I can back up everything I've ever said about you with your own words. Let's see you actually obtain credibility here and do the same, which I know you can't in this situation cause I've never said that, ever. For God's sake, that's not even a half truth - you totally pulled that one out of your ass along with everything else that comes out of you.

[DarkAges]

http://i15.tinypic.com/2v16lpk.jpg