Thousands protest in Europe at Gaza offensive

[mindless1]

The Palestinians are for the most part, pretty isolated. In this case it is a physical isolation, where they cannot move freely about from their own homes with the Isreali occupation. I would like to point out the different types of isolation: There's mental isolation or social isolation- whereas one's own mind isolates from the others and moves theirs inwardly, while there is a whole other universe outside their own one, and political isolation - a country's withdrawal from international politics; "he opposed a policy of American isolation"
non-engagement, non-involvement, nonparticipation - withdrawing from the activities of a group

I would suggest that the world is becoming more and more isolated as time drags on: Our best options are to close our minds off to outside influences, wrap ourselves in cages and squares. See the world as black and white without a fleck of gray at all. In the darkness we will find light, in persecution we will find God, in isolation we will find ourselves thinking that we are communicating or even external, as if there were an external to the box we created for this system...a systematic destruction of the world- where every country turns to fascism, greed, isolationism, and eventually each one isolates the others- utter annhiliation.

[Necrophagist]

Stop using variations of the word isolate.

[Mr. Filth]

http://www.salamanderorganics.co.uk/roadmap.gif

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by mindless1

Our best options are to close our minds off to outside influences, wrap ourselves in cages and squares. See the world as black and white without a fleck of gray at all. In the darkness we will find light, in persecution we will find God, in isolation we will find ourselves thinking that we are communicating or even external, as if there were an external to the box we created for this system...a systematic destruction of the world- where every country turns to fascism, greed, isolationism, and eventually each one isolates the others- utter annhiliation.

You're stupid and scary. The type that could join a destructive cult.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

The Palestians ARE innocent victims.

Bullshit. You can not tell me that the entire Nation is full of relaxed and groovy peaceful people, except Hamas, and yet the entirety of Israel is fucking evil. You're being slanted, as usual.

Here's the deal, the assholes doing the fighting, whether Hamas or the Israeli military, are being fuckers. End of discussion. There are plenty of citizens on BOTH SIDES, even in the governments, who think this is all needless bloodshed. It's like you saying everyone who worked for Bush is just as bad as he is.

You can not say one side is innocent and the other is guilty, it's ridiculous. They've both done wrong and they both need to stop the killing on either side. I don't care if it's private or government.

[mindless1]

The entire nation of America isn't full of relaxed groovy people, nice point though, I think that Godslayer Jillian's 'you're stupid and scary' is childish pre-school nonsense, I know people who've been there, I've worked in Amnesty International, protested. I have been to protests of the School of the Americas, and also I have seen footage and my mother went to Palestine to teach to children there. So you are wrong, by the way you really can't get around that fact can you?

[Godslayer Jillian]

So with all that, for some reason, you believe we should "embrace the darkness" and go pack ourselves into cells until the world becomes fascist?

What the fuck does that even mean?

[KontanKarite]

Jillian... there's no reason dignifying fools with responses, though I've been exceedingly guilty of it lately.

I protest that Mindless1 does just that. Go isolate herself until the whole world becomes fascist. Maybe then, if any of us are still alive, we might be assed to check and see if she's dead.

[Despanan]

Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist.

If you look at the History of the Conflict, the UN Partition Plan had this in place (or at least a start, whether or not the plan was fair or not is an issue for another time). The point is that the plan failed. Syria, Egypt, Jordan and the PLO attacked Israel and Isreal kicked their asses. Egypt stole a bunch of land reserved for the Palestinians, and the conflict continued. When conventional warfare failed, the Arabs tried terrorism.

The Palestinians (and any other Arabs involved in the conflict for that matter) are anything BUT helpless victims.

Helpless victims don't murder innocent Athletes

Helpless victims don't murder children on the way to school

Helpless victims don't attack buses, shopping malls, restraunts, and universities

Now this does not excuse the wrongs commited by Israel, but it should at least put them in perspective. You'd be an over-reacting dick too if you were completely surrounded by enemies who had pledged time and again to "Burn your country to the ground" and countless, spoiled European and American liberals were crying out against your country because they had a problem with the Bush Administration. Hell The rest of the Arab states hate Israel so much Saddam actually thought Lobbing 39 Scud missiles into Israel during the first gulf war (Despite the fact that Israel was not involved in that war) would spark the other Arab states into helping him against the United States.

As I've said before, everyone in that area needs to chill the fuck out, and people need to stop thinking of conflicts like this in black-and-white. It's incorrect, stupid, and it's not going to get us anywhere.

[Drake Dun]

Dumping the Abrahamic religions would be a good start. Claims that such and such a piece of land was given to such and such a group of people by some all-powerful sky bully are not terribly helpful for anything other than rallying the tribal sentiments of people and impelling them to violence.

[Despanan]

True, though I doubt that's likely to happen anytime soon.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

Dumping the Abrahamic religions would be a good start. Claims that such and such a piece of land was given to such and such a group of people by some all-powerful sky bully are not terribly helpful for anything other than rallying the tribal sentiments of people and impelling them to violence.

Thats not only terribly unrealistic but would be terribly ineffective. I'm sure being athiest won't make the Palestinians less pissed their homeland was taken away and getting bombed, and it won't make the Israelis less pissed about civilians getting blown up.

[Despanan]

Crap. I was editing my post and my internet went out, and now I can't. I ment to say this:

Originally Posted by Despanan

True, though I doubt that's likely to happen anytime soon.

Keep in mind though, Modern Zionism was a secular movement. The establishment of a Jewish Homeland in Israel by non-religious Jews,without the Messiah was actually seen as blasphemy by a number of fundamentalistic Jews. Notably many Hasids felt this way.

I'd figure religious leaders calling for peace would be a more realistic solution as opposed to nation-wide Atheism. Not by much judging by the situation over there, but still...

[Saya]

I'd figure religious leaders calling for peace would be a more realistic solution as opposed to nation-wide Atheism. Not by much judging by the situation over there, but still..

I think its time Thich Nhat Hahn was unleased in Israel, to work his magic.

In one of his books that I've read he did mention hosting retreats for Israelis and Palestinians, projects like that should get a lot more attention.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Saya

I think its time Thich Nhat Hahn was unleased in Israel, to work his magic.

I've read one of his books. That guy kicks ass.

[Noirette]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Sternn's always a little overboard with his political ideals, but the point is, the Israelis aren't innocent, and that's what they want the rest of the world to think. Every image presented to the West is that the Israelis are fighting a DEFENSIVE war and that they are victims of Muslim aggression. This is obviously not the case, as Israel is currently INVADING Gaza. Are the Israelis the "bad guys"? No, but they're not the good guys either.

And I guess that Paletines, those who educate their 10-year-old children to honestly believe that diyng in order to kill Israeliens is the best thing they can do with their lives, are innocent.

No one's innocent here, to be honest. I've heard enough about this from a friend of mine at the millitary sercive.

[Noirette]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

Dumping the Abrahamic religions would be a good start. Claims that such and such a piece of land was given to such and such a group of people by some all-powerful sky bully are not terribly helpful for anything other than rallying the tribal sentiments of people and impelling them to violence.

I don't think that most of the pople in Israel, even thtose who are for the war, think that this is the reason we live in this land.

[Noirette]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

At the end of the day, israel is illiegally occupying Palestinian terrirtory, as deemed by the UN.

Look back at the root cause of the issue, the fact the british 'gave' israel land it did not even own to 'create' their own country, and ignored the fact thousands of people already lived there and had lived there for centuries..

First, Israel was created AFTER the holocaust and BECAUSE OF IT.

Second, many Plaestines were expressing their objection of this plan violentely, even thogh they had their opportunities to continue nagotiantions about creating a Palestinian land, from the very beggining of all of this, in the early 20's.

Check this in Wikipedia if you don't believe me, and stop being such a fucking Idealist.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by Noirette

And I guess that Paletines, those who educate their 10-year-old children to honestly believe that diyng in order to kill Israeliens is the best thing they can do with their lives, are innocent.

No one's innocent here, to be honest. I've heard enough about this from a friend of mine at the millitary sercive.

Thanks for restating exactly what I said. Congratulations, you fail at reading comprehension.

[Noirette]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Thanks for restating exactly what I said. Congratulations, you fail at reading comprehension.

Yay for me.

[Necrophagist]

Niorette, just go away.

" its in Wikepedia "

Lmao!!

[Noirette]

Don't you have anything more intelligent to say?

[Necrophagist]

Don't you? Apart from acting as if the Israelis are suffering so much in comparison to the Palestinians, you really have said nothing...

[PortraitOfSanity]

As usual Necro, you fail to grasp the simplest aspects of a debate.

[Necrophagist]

As usual Portrait, you fail to grasp the difference between actual debating, and arguing for the sake of pissing people off.

Go drink piss with ur vampyric luv m'kay?