America The Plutocracy

[CptSternn]

I started a new thread here for Ben. I know I already have one about the American Monarchy, but thought this was a bit more encompassing. I apoligise if some of the themes and thoughts there bleed over into this thread as well.

America today is unlike any other first world country as it is a plutocracy. A small group of mega-rich people pretty much run the show. The top 1% of Americans control over 80% of the wealth, and thats the low end statistic. Some sources cite that number to be as high as 90%.

That means 99% of Americans are fighting for the last 10% - 20% of the proverbial pie. Thats a lot of people to feed with a small amount of money to go around. The worst part is, thanks to a constant class war which has been ongoing since the 1960's the rights of the average working class American have been severely diminished leading to a very slanted playing field that benefits that top 1%.

This is what you see in countries that have failed. Argentina, Chile, and those are the most recent. Looking back through history you can find more and more. All had the same problem - the top ruling class used the workers as cattle until the system was tipped to the point the whole economy collapsed. The mega-rich then flee the country and leave the mess behind for those who can't afford to escape the calamity left in their wake.

America is heading that way now. We can look at the reasons it is getting there sure.

Lets start with corporations. American corporations pay no tax. In fact, they get tax refunds so they are being PAID by American tax payers to operate. How exactly is that good for the country? It of course isn't. It is also not sustainable.

Recently corporations won the right to pump as much money as they wanted to directly into candidates and political campaigns. The vote to do that was on party lines, the lines we have all come to expect from the Supreme Court in Americas, 5-4. All of the bush/reagan appointed judges backing big business over the rights of the people, a scenario which has played out many times in the past many years.

This gave corporations all the rights of a person, yet left them without all the burdens of being a citizen. Sorta like the comic book character Blade - they have all the strengths but none of the weaknesses. Case in point, Chrysler and the Ford Pinto.

Does anyone else remember the Ford Pinto? It had a huge defect in it's design. The rear axle has two inch long exposed bolts which faced the fuel tank. In a read in collision those bolts would go straight into the fuel tank and the metal scraping would cause sparks making the whole car explode like in an action movie. It also had another defect - the doors would accordion in such a way you could not open them if hit from behind. At those things up and you have a rolling death trap.

Did Lee Iacocca stop his corporation from releasing these vehicles to the public even though their own internal testing caught these problems before they even hit the market? Nope. Why? A cost benefit analysis showed that it only happened in the right conditions therefore they could limit the total number of accidents down to 2000 or so. Retrofiting the cars would have cost $0.13 per car, but they calculated that was still more than paying out $100,000 to 2000 families for wrongful death cases resulting from the design defects. The cars went on the road and hundreds died in the very scenario they predicted. They of course settled with the families and at the end of the day saved money by not fixing those death traps. Iacocca was deemed a hero and they to this day write books about how great a business man he is.

Did he go to jail? Hell no. A couple families tried to bring criminal action but sure, in America you can't bring criminal charges against a corporation. Much like when they get caught out cheating on their own taxes, there will be no criminal charges, but yet they have the 'rights' of a private individual. All of the strengths, none of the weaknesses.

No other country does this. If you look at the UK, Australia, Canada, or any of the Scandinavian countries these laws seem insane. Only in America have these sorts of things been made legal.

Then there is the military industrial complex. America spends more on defense than any other country. They sacrifice schools and even health programs for children so they can built high tech planes that no other country even has the means to fight against, even though their current planes already are light years ahead of the other countries as well. Despanan posted a brilliant link about the 'Oreos' that showed how disproportional America is with military spending. Why is this? Again, corporations pay big money to keep congress authorising funding for their projects. A handful of companies get this money, and have been getting it for years. This has even spread into the domestic market. You have prisons being run for profit, and they are serviced by the same military contractors who provide services to the soldiers stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan. They make money every time a judge locks up an American citizen. It has already been proven that judges own stock in these companies at at least one major case two years ago involved judges intentionally locking up the innocent to boost their own stock portfolio.

If you look even closer a more recent revelation was that a sitting member of the Supreme Court has been doing this for years. Clarence Thomas actually runs a private company which has been directly influencing politicians and he in turn has presided over dozens of cases which his ruling bolstered his own bank account. Thanks to laws blocking anyone from even investigating this without congressional approval, nothing has happened.

The top 1% control the US government. They have been milking it for years. The middle class is going to be gone soon. Why? Stalin had a saying 'Put the middle class between a rock and a hard place and grind until they are non-existent'. Stalin knew the middle class was a problem - the poor don't organise well and have few resources. The middle class have education and some resources, so they can be a threat to the government if they set their minds to it. By eliminating the middle class you eliminate any real challenge to the status quo. This has been happening for so long now we can see the effects on the middle class, which in America have become almost a slave class living pay check to pay check without any real social safety net in place. That keeps them busy working and keeps them from trying anything too daring as well.

That is why children born today and in the past decade will have LESS than their parents did. They will live in a smaller house, make less money, and statistically speaking receive less education. That is a real problem as it is starting a trend which will spell the downfall of America. You can't have impoverished people getting worse each generation and expect your country to prosper.

I can continue on, but my point is America is unlike any other first world country today. The middle class is quickly disappearing, the top 1% continue to rake in obscene profits and the average working class family is ending up with less and less. I am by no means anti-American. I am anti-plutocracy. I am against big business making profit at the expense of the workers rights. Once the US government was the protector of the workers. It broke up monopolies, instituted changes to make sure workers had safe conditions, and did its best to provide for the working class of America. Those days are gone, and today big business has merged with the government and the outcome for the average worker in America is grim.

Heres to hoping the people wake up and see whats going soon sure.

[Ben Lahnger]

You know, after reading your other post, I was about to start this thread for you ... but here it is!

Bwah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah!

[CptSternn]

Think about this -

How many holidays do you get a year?

Can you take a month off and still be able to pay all of your bills?

When are you going to retire?

What happens if a medical catastrophe hits your family?

Will your children be better off than you are when they are your age now?

Can you pay for your childrens education?

Me? I live in a country where all of those questions are answered and I don't have to worry no matter what happens, like the rest of the first world.

I don't live under the thumb of corporations, living pay check to pay check, mired in debt in a form of modern day indentured servitude.

Can you say the same?

[Alan]

None of those things are signs of a plutocracy.
You're no better than a teabagger using terms like communism and fascism interchangably just trying to 'argue' his point.

Nothing you have said are things a freshman college student wouldn't know, yet you present them as enlightened facts. That's the difference between you and me: I teach, you preach.
But I would even forgive that, I would forgive everything, were it not for one thing. For all the anti-americanism you claim, you are probably the ONLY one in this forum that still bases their politics on American exceptionalism.

[AshleyO]

Just splitting hairs here, but the top 1% of America does not own 90% of the nation's wealth.

ACTUALLY, it's more like the top 20% of the nation owns about 88~90% of the wealth. Still not a good sign though, so you have a little bit of a point.

But if your math was correct, Wall Street would be a warzone.

[Despanan]

This is NOT splitting hairs.

Why do you do this Sterrn? Everytime to lie, everytime you exaggerate your facts to the point where they're blatantly false you undermine the left.

You may think that by exaggerating and embellishing you're creating propaganda that's going to engineer a greater amount of outrage-When in point of fact the average response to this is

"What? That can't be right! If it is I will be very angry! *Checks* Whew, it's a lie, I will stop listening to this guy and am no longer angry."

The distribution of wealth in this country is a real problem, and with your lies and half-truths you are actively helping the right to screw me and the rest of my countrymen over.

Stop it.

[Ben Lahnger]

Sternn, when those American scientists determined that the last planet in our solar system wasn't really a planet, I thought they were all Plutocrazy!

That's as close as I'm ever going to come to siding with you on this one.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Alan

None of those things are signs of a plutocracy.

No, but they are the outcome of what comes from a plutocracy. Social protection for the working class is non-existent. The top feed off the working class. I was merely pointing out the end effect, which is currently happening, and why the average person there should care.

In the 1960's the average American household had one single working parent, families could take multiple weeks vacation. Sick pay, holiday pay, and other benefits were common. People got multiple paid holidays off. The list goes on. All of this has been taken away due to the cozy relationship between the government and big business, yet the current generation have no clue.

It's much like slaves born into slavery - they have never experienced freedom so they do not know what they are missing therefore are not rising up against it. I merely am point out in that last post some of the things Americans had, but let big business strip them of.

You're no better than a teabagger using terms like communism and fascism interchangably just trying to 'argue' his point.

Nothing could be further from the truth. But please, feel free to 'teach' us oh wise one on what you think and how it relates to the daily lives of people here.

Nothing you have said are things a freshman college student wouldn't know, yet you present them as enlightened facts. That's the difference between you and me: I teach, you preach.

Says you. Glad to see you think you are some sort of 'enlightened' educator. You sure do have an inflated opinion of yourself. What exactly have you done IRL to fix any of the problems you think you are 'teaching' everyone about? Or does your extent of 'teaching' begin and end with snarky posts on a gothic message forum?

But I would even forgive that, I would forgive everything, were it not for one thing. For all the anti-americanism you claim, you are probably the ONLY one in this forum that still bases their politics on American exceptionalism.

And you don't? Thats right, you based yours on Mexican exceptionalism. Thats because you live there. See, I don't use Mexico as a basis for my posts for three reasons -

First, I don't live there and haven't lived there. I wouldn't be able to give a valid argument for changing the tax code much less reasons why the government should be changed.

Second, I rarely see news from there that is not about the drug war. All of the major wires seem pretty barren when it comes to updates of what is happening in Mexico, politically.

Finally, most of the people whom which I am having discussions with here live in America. Analogies that they can related to that impact their lives directly usually emphasise the point in a much more effective manner. Pointing out how things are done wrong in Mexico, Guam, or anywhere else just doesn't have the same effect.

[CptSternn]

http://www.dailypaul.com/111232/us-w...-all-us-assets

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_736132.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html

http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/fac...ome&wealth.htm

Yes, I did use a Ron Paul website reference. I actually like him, well most of his policies that is.

The top 20% hold 80% - 85% of the wealth. The bottom 40% of Americans fight over 0.2% of the wealth.

So I was a bit off on the top end, but sure, way wrong on the bottom but it is much worse than I originally stated sure.

Does anyone in this thread think they are higher up than the 40% bracket?

You, your kids, your neighbors, most of your community and ones like it around the country are all fighting for 0.2% of the American Dream, the scraps left over from bankers, politicians, and the other mega-rich.

[Alan]

Man, you don't even know what my politics are, huh? Mexican exceptionalism?
You're a clown already but I don't think you've ever said anything that laughable.

[HumanePain]

Captain, remember one thing: the American corporations are made up of, guess what? Americans. Americans that pay taxes on their income, enjoy home ownership and cars, and standing in line for Harry Potter movies. You make it sound like Transformers are preying on human flesh or something.

America is far from perfect as is every other nation, but it is not as bad as all that. Yet.

But I agree that the supreme court ruling that corporations can give unlimited money to political campaigns has greased the skids for this nation going downhill.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Alan

You're no better than a teabagger

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Nothing could be further from the truth

Originally Posted by CptSternn

I actually like [Ron Paul]

[Grausamkeit]

That math doesn't add up, Sternn. Are you leaving something out of the equation?

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

That math doesn't add up, Sternn. Are you leaving something out of the equation?

It's not my math, check the links.

US wealth distribution: 10% of US citizens own 70.9% of all US assets

Top 1% own 38.1%
Top 96-99% own 21.3%
Top 90-95% own 11.5%
And it gets much uglier as you proceed downward. Bottom 40% of population has 0.2% of all wealth.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Alan

Man, you don't even know what my politics are, huh?

If your activism begins and ends with your keyboard, then it doesn't really matter what your politics are, now does it?

[Alan]

So you're just hitting blindly to see if you manage to hit me?
That's just sad man. Anyone else knows how much activism I do, and that pathetic attempt at trying to get to me is even sadder than your idiotic attempt at accusing me of "mexican exceptionalism"
Do you even know what exceptionalism means?

Jesus christ, you're more ignorant than a freshman 'truther'

[Despanan]

I'm still wondering what the self-called Marxist Sternn likes about "most of Ron Paul's policies"

Is it his fetishistic deference to the US constitution? His title of "Mr. Republican" and the fact that he's been polled as the "most conservative member of congress" (1937-2002) His Libertarian Austrian School, free market economics? The fact that he's for state-by-state outlawing of abortion and believes "Separation of Church and State" is used to oppress American religious groups? How about his total opposition of universal healthcare, and the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Is it the fact that the man stuttered all over himself unable to answer when asked whether a child who had no insurance should be refused medical care?

Inquiring minds want to know, because right now, you sound like you should be hanging out with Deadman.

[CptSternn]

@Alan

Believe it or not, this thread is not about you. You wouldn't know it from reading your posts here. You seem to think this is somehow all about you and what you think. To be honest, I don't care.

[CptSternn]

@Despanan

I like his views on foreign policy and a few dealing with the fed.

[Despanan]

You mean his view that "Israel is our close friend" and that it is not the place of the United States to "dictate how Israel runs her affairs"?

What about his advocacy for eliminating most federal government agencies, including the IRS and the board of education?

[JCC]

Lol, Sternn fell into the 'Ron Paul is a viable alternative' trap. He isn't this cross-wing political maverick he has styled himself to be, he is an old-school right-wing nutjob.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

@Alan

Believe it or not, this thread is not about you. You wouldn't know it from reading your posts here. You seem to think this is somehow all about you and what you think. To be honest, I don't care.

Not anymore, obviously. You only care when you think you're making a good point, and then you immediately backpedal.
Man, you are sad.

[Ben Lahnger]

@Sternn

Believe it or not, this thread is not significant. You wouldn't know it from reading the other posts here. You seem to think that somehow your pronouncements about what you think of America matter. To be honest, I don't care.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by JCC

Lol, Sternn fell into the 'Ron Paul is a viable alternative' trap. He isn't this cross-wing political maverick he has styled himself to be, he is an old-school right-wing nutjob.

"Most conservative member of congress 1937-2002"

Man think about that for a second...RP is the most conservative guy in congress in the past 65 years.

Plus his son Rand Paul opposes new safety regulations which would prevent BLACK LUNG in Kentucky coal-miners because quote: "It would be too expensive for the COAL COMPANIES".

Yeah, the RP revolution will deal with those stinking plutocrats!

...If by "deal" you mean they'll remove all regulations and let them do whatever they want without paying any taxes.

[CptSternn]

I never said I supported him or would ever recommend voting for him, I just said I like some of his polices. I know I may be views as a radical far left type, and I am, but does that mean I can't have some views in which I find some common ground with the other side of the political fence?

It's his speeches like this I enjoy and agree with at least in some part -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZmPS0XmeBw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0GZz...eature=related

http://www.ronpaul.com/2011-01-27/ro...e-middle-east/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt64P...eature=related

I would also have to disagree with you on your views of his views on israel...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUmfvSr9qP0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUDQM...eature=related

I like his views. The only reason israel is able to do what it does is because it is the largest recipient of foreign aid from America. They get 30 billion a year and billions more in weapons.

Thats the reason bin laden cited why they attacked America, because of the funding for israel. You can't kill the tree unless you go after the roots.

Remove all funding for israel from America, thats the same thing I support.