Gypsy and Nomad Rights

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by Catch

(I'm not sure if vin is being funny.)

Have you actually been to East Europe? I have no issue with gypsies as a whole. But my experiences in Romania were legit.

[Alan]

Gypsies are dangerous for tourists, but what people like Stern want to do is to exclude them or exterminate them as a whole.
Romani are a people; one of the last acceptable targets for ethnic hatred.
They have a problem with gypsies yet they do not want to integrate them or account for them.

[Catch]

Originally Posted by Alan

Gypsies are dangerous for tourists, but what people like Stern want to do is to exclude them or exterminate them as a whole.
Romani are a people; one of the last acceptable targets for ethnic hatred.
They have a problem with gypsies yet they do not want to integrate them or account for them.

It is probably that hatred that might make them violent in Romania, because they are fighting for survival. However, I do not know any Romanian Gypsies, so I will acknowledge it as hateful stereo-typing so commonly seen like the pictures namkcud provided.

You know, it seems like Goths would be able to relate to gypsies. It seems as though the media is always associating Goths with aweful traits. If you were going to look at most media instigated stereo-typing all Goths are high school dropouts who do drugs and have sex. Goths are all whores and liars. However, being a Goth know that the world is still the world and it is important to better ourselves. We enrich our lives with philosophy, music, fine art, morals, education and want jobs to pay bills.

We do the best we can and are appauled by movies; wherein, a Goth is inhuman and feel let down by the general public for attempting to make our lives harder just for being us.

Everyone deserved the ability to make and honest living. I feel disgusted by England agressive actions against Travellers, but I don't live in England.

[Alan]

Then give them the opportunity to an honest living.

[JCC]

They ain't talking about the Romani Alan, they're talking about Irish travellers. Similar in the sense that they're both nomadic communities but no ethnic or cultural connection. I still think they're wrong though.

[Still Jack]

Pikeys:

Gypsies:


I dunno I find it difficult to not dislike this particular group of people since I've had my car stolen by them ( twice ). My rims stolen from them ( five or six times ) and my house broken into.

[Catch]

Originally Posted by namkcud

Catch, thievery is not an honest living.

I was talking about working on farms. That guy was a chef. That is legitimate work. Some people travel as part of their job. Think about Journeymen. They are carpenters. They have to travel to where work is availabe.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Catch

I was talking about working on farms. That guy was a chef. That is legitimate work. Some people travel as part of their job. Think about Journeymen. They are carpenters. They have to travel to where work is availabe.

That shit only happens in old books and movies.

There are no 'traditional' gypsys ANYWHERE in the world. I live in and travel Europe and you don't see the fecking wanderly wagon out anywhere.

You see beat up old caravans filled with criminals.

@Alan

I would love, LOVE to see them make an honest living. Per the articles I posted above, which for whatever reason the pro-gypo crowd here seems to be ignoring, the Irish government spends MILLIONS a year TRYING to help them. I support that, to a point. Spending on gypsy families versus normal families on social welfare have a huge difference - where I live they spend thirteen times more PER YEAR on gypsys due to the fact the destroy their homes they are GIVEN and are constantly complaining about stuff which is fixed, and they either then break it or sell it and ask for another. That's not even getting into the scams they pull on social welfare.

Ireland for DECADES has tried to deal with the problem by giving them special treatment. By that I mean if you are a gypsy you can go to social welfare, they will GIVE YOU a free HOUSE to live in and you can collect social welfare (a few hundred euro a week) to live on until you find a job, just like everyone else. It doesn't run out, so they could sit there for years, which they sometimes do, but this crowd isn't happy with that and even when they have a free house they get back in their caravan (small portable trailer as seen in the pictures above) and go to other areas and engage in illegal activity.

They have been given homes and free money in efforts to make them 'settled' as they say here, and they still prefer their lifestyle because they make millions in illegal activity. They engage in the stuff the mafia would be known for in America.

Then you get to watch them in town, or on TV like here:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/m...-gypsy-wedding

They live in small beat up caravans, off of social welfare, but then spend upwards of €300,000 on a wedding for their daughter(s). WTF? They claimed they saved the money. Sure they did. One girl they showed had a dress that was custom made with diamonds, cost over €120,000, and the family is on social welfare living in a caravan. How does that happen, legally?

The government for years has tried to help them, given them free homes, and they still choose their lifestyle due to the huge amounts of illegal money they make.

One of the biggest money making schemes they run these days is working farmers markets. Every town in Ireland has a farmers market in the middle of town a few days a week. All the local farmers and other vendors show up in open air stalls to sell their wares. Travellers are always there and selling things. It may seem harmless enough, selling washing powder, bin bags, and other stuff everyone needs and would normally buy from the shops, but here it is dirt cheap. Why? Because they steal it from shops on one side of the country, give it to family who then move it to the other side and sell it. It can't be traced. They are at every market in Ireland selling this stuff and it all comes from break-ins across the country. Everyone knows it, but you can't prove it because no one tracks cleaning products and what not. They do the same with cars and power tools. The best place to read about this is www.donedeal.ie - it's an online classifieds site here in Ireland. Look under power tools or motorbikes. Half the power tools will have the serials scraped off and the motorbikes come 'without tax book', the thing you get when you buy it and cannot replace. The police cannot prove these things are stolen, so they can't do anything, although you can get arrested for driving a bike without a tax book. They sell these things to each other and use them. When caught they say they will go get the book and never return, and just move to somewhere else.

Again, unless you have lived among them and seen them, you have no reference. These are not people who are bullied in society, just the opposite, they are given even more support than the average person, given free houses at the drop of a hat, all they have to do is ask, and they STILL keep their lifestyle due to criminality.

[CptSternn]

Another link, check it out...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-000-cost.html

How many American's do tarmac for a living and make a fortune? To the Americans here, that means the pave drive-ways. Not roads or parking lots, but drive ways for home owners. They go door to door and ask if you want your drive way done, then cover it in the black stuff. A common scam they pull is they do it first, then come ask for payment. They usually do this to old people or foreigners. Even if they ask first they usually do a crappy job and always add in extra costs which make it double what they quoted you, and then threaten you to pay, which is why no one gets gypsys to tar mac their driveway.

But I digress, the father of the bride who spent 140,000 POUNDS STERLING (thats about what, $250,000) on a DRESS not including the wedding and reception he paid another $300,000 for - all in CASH - yeah, he tarmacs peoples drives ways and claims he saved the money. Really? A man who doesn't use a bank and pays for everything in cash saved, not invested, but saved close to three-quarters of a million dollars in the forty some years he has been on this planet? Even while raising eight kids? That is impressive, or should I say IMPOSSIBLE.

[Solumina]

Well since you mentioned it I do know a guy with a driveway paving business back home that does quite well for himself. I was quite close friends with his daughter and they did live rather well. I don't know what he makes but I as my brother worked for him one summer I can tell you that his workers start out at $20 an hour with regular performance based raises (and I would imagine that he wouldn't pay his people so well if he was hurting for money). I'm not saying that the guy you are talking about makes all of his money on the up and up but it can give you a decent income.

[CptSternn]

A good piece from TV3 last night.

http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=...=0&video=35415

[Catch]

Seriously there are actually hard working people who earn a living while traveling.

Travellers sounds like an endless burning man. Even the followers of the Grateful Dead opened merchandising stands and other methods of being a part of society and still have rights.

You know, I think your media has a one sided view of Travellers. Not too mention, though going to great lengths to describe who I am talking about, You insist on continuing with this.

Open Your Own Damn Thread Seepy-Stirrin!

If you want to continue with this, I am going to start asking why you think it is okay to commit genocide after everything you post.

Save the World from Seepy-Stirrin!

[Renatus]

Stern never said anything about genocide, that was namkcud.

[Catch]

Whatever, he is trying to sound intelligent and only bringing the fact to light it appears the English population is scape-goating Travellers as the evil manifestation in their country, not their total ineptitude.

That's Right!

Anyone blaming a peaceful group of people roaming the country side who are unable to defend themselves in political rankings are INEPT!

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by Catch

Whatever, he is trying to sound intelligent and only bringing the fact to light it appears the English population is scape-goating Travellers as the evil manifestation in their country, not their total ineptitude.

That's Right!

Anyone blaming a peaceful group of people roaming the country side who are unable to defend themselves in political rankings are INEPT!

Peaceful? You did follow the links Stern sent right? Like the one of them shooting each other, in a country where I thought guns were banned.

[Alan]

Once again, you're imposing your own values on them. They ARE considered an ethnicity and for good reason. Why is no one fucking talking about at least trying to integrate them into society? Sternn's half-assed commentary about how he " would love, LOVE to see them make an honest living" sounds no different than when an American conservative says he would love blacks if only they weren't so lazy and that they're the ones who bring racism upon themselves.

[Catch]

Originally Posted by Alan

Once again, you're imposing your own values on them. They ARE considered an ethnicity and for good reason. Why is no one fucking talking about at least trying to integrate them into society? Sternn's half-assed commentary about how he " would love, LOVE to see them make an honest living" sounds no different than when an American conservative says he would love blacks if only they weren't so lazy and that they're the ones who bring racism upon themselves.

What I enjoyed the most was the whiney commentary about having to take longer to get himself a driver's license? Driving is really important to whiney suburbian kids. It is probably the biggest challenge in his whole life. I bet the girl he likes still thinks he is a loser and it has nothing to do with waiting awhile to drive your own car.

I also bet he assumes I am a Traveller for mentioning the subject. I am not. In fact, my family does fine with home owning and not even moving let alone traveling the open road any time soon. Actually the closest I've ever been is taking a road trip through the Mid-West once.

You see it is possible to just know people are similar in many primary needs of food, shelter, human rights and self-respect without having to live exactly the same way. I think CPTStern is a Punk who is so adjusted to media banter in his safe community he has never been challenged on this belief.

Yes. We are having this conversation.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by Catch

What I enjoyed the most was the whiney commentary about having to take longer to get himself a driver's license? Driving is really important to whiney suburbian kids. It is probably the biggest challenge in his whole life. I bet the girl he likes still thinks he is a loser and it has nothing to do with waiting awhile to drive your own car.

I also bet he assumes I am a Traveller for mentioning the subject. I am not. In fact, my family does fine with home owning and not even moving let alone traveling the open road any time soon. Actually the closest I've ever been is taking a road trip through the Mid-West once.

You see it is possible to just know people are similar in many primary needs of food, shelter, human rights and self-respect without having to live exactly the same way. I think CPTStern is a Punk who is so adjusted to media banter in his safe community he has never been challenged on this belief.

Yes. We are having this conversation.

You are pants-on-the-head retarded and every single thing you've said on this thread has been a big, black, cesspit of dumb. At least Cpt. Sternn provides sources to back up his claims. You have nothing but your own rosy imagination telling you that the Travelers are just the most wonderful martyr hippies to ever walk the Earth and every step they take is nothing but puppies and unicorn farts and the big bad media just hates them because they just do. Please stop gleefully displaying your ignorance to the world you shitgobbling pissdrinker.

Once again, you're imposing your own values on them. They ARE considered an ethnicity and for good reason. Why is no one fucking talking about at least trying to integrate them into society? Sternn's half-assed commentary about how he " would love, LOVE to see them make an honest living" sounds no different than when an American conservative says he would love blacks if only they weren't so lazy and that they're the ones who bring racism upon themselves.

It seems as though the Irish government is trying to integrate them into society. What are they lacking? What do you suggest they do to help integrate them?

[Still Jack]

Originally Posted by Alan

Once again, you're imposing your own values on them. They ARE considered an ethnicity and for good reason. Why is no one fucking talking about at least trying to integrate them into society? Sternn's half-assed commentary about how he " would love, LOVE to see them make an honest living" sounds no different than when an American conservative says he would love blacks if only they weren't so lazy and that they're the ones who bring racism upon themselves.

People only integrate when they want to integrate.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Still Jack

People only integrate when they want to integrate.

No, what you want is to assimilate.

[MissCheyenne]

I can only fairly comment on the Travellers that I have actually met. A couple of families lived a few houses down from us when I was younger (they were some of the families that had bought houses in order to settle on the estate permantly).Though they were both related to each other, one family was lovely and the other was a set of utter twats. Seriously, utter twats, one of the women threw a glass milk bottle at my head because I happened to glance in the direction of her husband as I was crossing the road ( I was all of 14 years old and she was in her thirties at least). They stole from other families on the estate, constantly had huge fights in the middle of the street complete with police presence on a number of occasions, were the subject of several drugs raids and the children were nothing short of feral. The other family were absolutely lovely though, hard working, polite, helpful (the older children helped carry my mums shopping bags a few times for example) just generally really nice.I can't help but remember the first family poorly though, since their behaviour was appalling but that's not to say I hate all Travellers, just like everyone else, there are some nice ones and some utter cunts as well.

[Catch]

Originally Posted by Still Jack

People only integrate when they want to integrate.

People don't have to integrate to be treated well and have rights.

[Alan]

That's a terrible question.

[Catch]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Alan... not taking this seriously at all right now. I mean, we've got "Reasonable" people on this site... asking for basically a systematic genocide of... people who live very contrary to the established majority norm. This shit was ridiculous from its conception.

You're so deep and empathetic to all people, even those who feel it's okay to kill everyone.

~ good job

[Corpsey]

Catch quoted your previous post and misinterpreted what you were saying. Something about empathy and showing it towards even those who feel it is okay to kill everyone.