Viewpoints on atheism and a supernatural being (and/or Beings, Aliens, and Santa)

[Ben Lahnger]

I wish I believed in a higher power. In fact, I wish other people's higher power would get high more often.

[Hearts_Purple]

Originally Posted by JCC.

What the fuck?

What confuses you? The idea that we have no soul or conciousness, and therefor do not exist, before we are born. Or maybe the notion that some neither believe in some higher power nor care to?

[JCC.]

The fact everything you say reeks of wanting to be a part of something to the point of desperation.

[ape descendant]

I am a naturalist. 'Nuff said.

[Razeal18]

I believe in the Gaea theory. The earth is a living organism and we as humans are simply a more elaborate nervous system. Then again after saying that i realize just how stupid "the masses " as well as myself can be. It seems gentlemen and ladies that we are the last firing neurons on the last retarded cosmos baby growing and progressing on a near immeasurable level. every thousand years perhaps seems to be one more second in the centurion life cycle of our retarded cosmos baby.

Now you may scoff you may state how stupid i am for believing that i could be a nerve telling the cosmos baby to drool uselessly But dammit at least I'm not a Mormon or Scientologist/

All bullshit aside i think that Mr Marx may have well been right. But don't we all need a little something to get us through the day? the problem occurs when these rival drug dealers say its their shit that will get you the highest, cure what ails you, jump higher, fuck harder, or much like Tim Leary help you reach enlightenment and higher consciousness.

Believe what you choose and swallow at your own risk. The second you try to force your shit down someone else's throat, your in the wrong. so fuck all you [insert religion here] ists. When i wanna try your shit i'll let you know til;l then fuck off i'm clean

[Razeal18]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

I am a naturalist. 'Nuff said.

resisting urge to make nudist comments

[ape descendant]

To the best of my knowledge the earth does not fit the definition of a living organism.

life (līf) the aggregate of vital phenomena; the quality or principle by which living things are distinguished from inorganic matter, as manifested by such phenomena as metabolism, growth, reproduction, adaptation, etc.

I think it is very human to anthropomorphize important things and phenomena, but that doesn't make it real.

[JCC.]

That's why it's a theory, dickhead.

[Ben Lahnger]

The descendant of apes is a dickhead? Oh, pshaw!

LMAO!

[Razeal18]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

To the best of my knowledge the earth does not fit the definition of a living organism.

life (līf) the aggregate of vital phenomena; the quality or principle by which living things are distinguished from inorganic matter, as manifested by such phenomena as metabolism, growth, reproduction, adaptation, etc.

I think it is very human to anthropomorphize important things and phenomena, but that doesn't make it real.

all those things are carried out upon the earth but mabe not by the earth itself. Especially when in comparison to other planets. the earth is unique in that it (not yet dissproven) is the only planet in our solar system to have intelligent life which has conceved of math art and the will for self knowledge. its a stretch i know but there is no such thing as an unbreakable rule, not in this reality. Only rules that have yet to be broken. Also by that definition a cloud could be considered alive. I growes, it reproduces thu budding it adapts to the shape of moutains or winds around it and it metabolises water. fire can also do all those things.

[ape descendant]

Clouds do not "reproduce" they are formed from dust and water vapor... one cloud does not split into baby clouds, give birth or lay a little cloud egg.

Earth is the only known planet in the universe to support life, but that does not have to mean that the rocks, lava and molten core are alive. It is still an awesome and incredible planet, I love Earth.

[Razeal18]

would you say your heart is alive? what about your lungs? or even reproductive organs? These things alone do not a living thing make. But put them together in just such a way and it creates this science chik having a debate with me.

[ape descendant]

My organs are a part of me... and I am a living organism...is there a point you're getting at?

[viscus]

Jin, your "universal negative" is nonsense. Atheism doesn't require faith or absolute knowledge of anything, just the rejection of the supernatural. It can be argued that 'absolute knowledge' is impossible and we can only achieve models that explain things beyond reasonable doubt. But when asked about universal origins, I and most other atheists I know will readily admit that we don't know. And which is the more intellectually honest position: admitting that you don't know, or claiming that it was the work of magic?

I think you have fallen into a big 'argument from ignorance' fallacy, in other words: "I don't know what did it, so it must have been God." Just because something can't be explained to your liking doesn't mean you can assert the supernatural. You have to bring forth substantial evidence that the supernatural exists. As of yet, no one has done that.

EDIT: And please don't equate evolution with atheism, some of the most ardent defenders of evolution and opponents of 'intelligent design' theory are theists.

[Hearts_Purple]

Originally Posted by JCC.

The fact everything you say reeks of wanting to be a part of something to the point of desperation.

Two things stand out about this statement:

1) That you have obviously either not read anything I've ever posted or you are projecting your own insecurities onto my posts.

2) You are a dumbass.

[ape descendant]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

As far as Atheists go, I have the utmost respect for the ones who don't have the inclination to pounce on anyone who dismisses the theory of evolution.

The reason people "pounce" on people who dismiss the theory of evolution, is that it is an integral part of biology. Evolution happens and accounts for the diversity of life.

And just for the record, the theory of evolution doesn't have anything to do with the formation of the universe or solar system. All it has to do with is the fact that there is life and that there is reproduction, and when reproduction happens there are random mutations that are either selected for or against naturally causing a change in the form and function of life on our beautiful ball of dirt.

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

The first thing that I want to point out, is that in my quest for the truth... I discovered that Atheism seemed to have required as much of faith,( if not much, much, more) than any other way of believing. It was actually very difficult to cope with. I came to the conclusion that all atheists have what's called a 'universal negative'. A universal negative requires absolute knowledge (omniscience), whereas a universal positive may not require that.

I found this little metaphor, that helps me out in explaining this...

....Let's say that I am in a building with 4 rooms. I have only been in 1 room.

In order to say that every room is empty, I would have to have knowledge of all 4 rooms. I would need to know the entirety of what I am claiming to know.

However... to state the opposite, that the building is not empty, I would at the very least only need to know about one room....

So... in essence, any time an atheist claims that there is absolutely no Creator, they are claiming absolute and full knowledge of the universe (omniscience)... If they are not claiming absolute knowledge, than they are going off of "faith", but in fact, since they could never ,ever, ever, know for sure that universal negative... then they are requiring much more faith than a person who claims there is a creator (because finding out if there is one, may not require absolute knowledge).

Dictionary Definition of Faith.

"Faith is a belief in the trustworthiness of an idea. Formal usage of the word "faith" is usually reserved for concepts of religion, as in theology, where it almost universally refers to a trusting belief in a transcendent reality, or else in a Supreme Being and said being's role in the order of transcendent, spiritual things."

It would make sense... except for the fact that if one really wants to convice another of their point of view (which for the sake of argument is a positive claim) they must provide proof of said positive claim. The burden of proof lays upon the claimant.

If you want me to believe in a god (which is a pretty big and complex claim) you must show equally convincing proof of such claim.

If you want to believe in god that is your own business... however. The fact that there are unexplained things, or that the universe is awesome are hardly convincing arguments for god (of whatever stripe).

As far as the rooms go... if you're in a house in which you've only been in one room. Its more like all of us being in only one room, you claiming that there are four rooms that we cannot go into and experience, however you are adamant that there are four rooms despite the fact that all we can experience is the one we've actually been in.... why be upset that all we're really ready to acknowle is the one.. when we see the other three for ourselves I'm sure we'd be more than happy to agree that they are even there in the first place, empty or not.


Your art is still awesome.

PEACE!

[vindicatedxjin]

First of all guys, I wrote this last year. And my thoughts on things have somewhat drifted from the prior ones that you see in this thread. I'm currently at a point where I don't really know where I stand. Sorry.

[ape descendant]

I figger'd as much... but I still had to give in to the desire to respond to the original post. The call was ... irresistible....

[Sinjob]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

First of all guys, I wrote this last year. And my thoughts on things have somewhat drifted from the prior ones that you see in this thread. I'm currently at a point where I don't really know where I stand. Sorry.

You should be sorry you didn't finish the rest of this post. I was at the edge of my fucking seat wondering what was going to be the second of all. Fuck.

Don't worry, it's clear your ignorance has remained and gone nowhere else. Stay in this place of confusion. Do us all a favor.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

The first thing that I want to point out, is that in my quest for the truth... I discovered that Atheism seemed to have required as much of faith,( if not much, much, more) than any other way of believing. It was actually very difficult to cope with. I came to the conclusion that all atheists have what's called a 'universal negative'. A universal negative requires absolute knowledge (omniscience), whereas a universal positive may not require that.

No.

You're talking about positive (hard) atheism, which does indeed require omniscience to state "there is absolutely no god". Most atheists are negative (soft) atheists, ie: I will continue to presume that there is no god until I encounter adequate evidence of one.

they are requiring much more faith than a person who claims there is a creator (because finding out if there is one, may not require absolute knowledge)

No. You could not be more wrong if your name was Wrongy McWrongerson. In fact, absolute knowlege of a creator would require AT LEAST omniscience (if not greater knowledge)

Let's say God appeared to you right now, surrounded by halos and angels and all your dead relatives and said: "LO VINDICATEDXJIN! I AM GOD! SUP?"

How do you know it's God? I mean it's far more likely that you're crazy and you're just hallucinating. What if he then heals your herpes? How do you know it's not just an alien with superior magic-like technology fucking with you? You don't. You can't. So stating unequivocally that there is a God would require no more "faith" than stating that there is not. (though I'm tempted to say it would require more, as in the case of the former you are making a positive claim)

*Buncha crap about the universe* (a little misplaced knowledge is a dangerous thing)

Whoa dude...have you ever like...THOUGHT about the universe? MAN the Universe...

What precisely do you define as "the universe"? because I'm pretty sure your idea of the universe (eternal or otherwise) is MASSIVELY inconsistent with the what those scientists you're so liberally citing and quote-mining define as the universe.

The inevitable conclusion to me, is that a creator is the only necessary being that makes sense..... If all contingent beings ultimately stem from the necessary being, then the necessary being is the external cause of the universe. In short, it must have all the characteristics of what we as humans normally associated with a God.

You believe this for two reasons:

1) Because you are stupid.

2) Because you probably began you "inquiry" looking to do the mental gymnastics necessary to find a God.

Essentially this whole diatribe was so you could make the teleological argument? You should've told me that so i didn't have to waste my time reading it. YThis has already been refuted.

In my mind a supernatural being, responsible for the universe's existence may not have to fit any given religion. But it most certainly throws a bomb at atheism.

No, it really doesn't. Look, I TOTALLY see where you're coming from Vind. you probably met some kids who decided to be "atheist" because they didn't like Christians and were probably total jerks.

That doesn't mean you've "examined atheism" (as you didn't even know about negative/positive atheism) but pointing to the universe requiring a creator as your "proof"? Bullshit Vind. Bullshit. You've just blindly supposed that a creator exists because that's what you were taught to believe, and conveniently made no guess as to what the nature of said creator is in order to protect yourself from the inevitable fucktardity of that supposition.

Clearly you have very little understanding of atheism, science, and the theory of evolution, and just reject them all outright and later look for reasons to back up the conclusion you've already come to. Stop it.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

I guess my only answer would probably be... because it makes me "feel" good.

It makes you feel good because you've had it drilled into your head by your parents and society.

[allyssa]

I don't care, at all, I am too self absorbed to even consider considering god..in fact I hate god, the notion of god fucks the world up over and over again...
..I hate GOD!!!!!!!!!!


but I do believe in unicorns, dragons and
elks, the moon and stars and the dream I have where lestat visits me

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by Despanan

It makes you feel good because you've had it drilled into your head by your parents and society.

Must I repeat myself? This was written a long time ago and my views have changed since then...but thanks for your input?

[Hearts_Purple]

Des, I'm beginning to like you.

LOL @ Wrongy McWrongerson!

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

Must I repeat myself? This was written a long time ago and my views have changed since then...but thanks for your input?

Yeah, my bad. I didn't realize this was a necro, and responded to the OP without reading the rest.

Glad your views have changed.