Israel

[CptSternn]

There was a discussion on this, and found this article which brings up many of the points mentioned. Thought it would serve as a good starting point for another discussion.

A Beautiful Friendship?

In search of the truth about the Israel lobby's influence on Washington

All David Ben-Gurion wanted was 15 minutes of Franklin Delano Roosevelt's time.

Israel's founding father, one of the indomitable political leaders of the 20th century, came to Washington in December 1941 yearning to present the case for a Jewish state directly to the American president. He took a two-room suite at the old Ambassador Hotel at 14th and K for $1,000 a month and cooled his heels for 10 weeks, writing letters and reports and making passes at Miriam Cohen, his attractive American secretary. But Ben-Gurion didn't get the meeting. Not then, not ever. Not even a pair of presidential cuff links.

Now let's fast-forward 64 years to late May and a news conference in the East Room of the White House. That tall, freckled, slightly nervous-looking man with the rust-colored hair standing alongside President Bush at matching lecterns is Ehud Olmert, 12th prime minister of Israel. The two leaders and their advisers have just spent two hours together in the Oval Office. Bush is reaffirming the "deep and abiding ties between Israel and the United States" and praising Olmert's "bold ideas" and commitment to peace. Afterward, they'll adjourn for a private session without aides or note-takers and then go to dinner together. And the next day Olmert will address a joint session of Congress, whose members will interrupt his speech with 16 standing ovations. Ben-Gurion, whose remains rest in a simple grave overlooking the Negev Desert, would be stunned.

It's not that Olmert is a more commanding figure than Ben-Gurion. Far from it. No, it's about power. And not just Israeli power. It's really about the perceived power of the Israel lobby, a collection of American Jewish organizations, campaign contributors and think tanks -- aided by Christian conservatives and other non-Jewish supporters -- that arose over the second half of the 20th century and that sees as a principle goal the support and promotion of the interests of the state of Israel.

Thanks to the work of the lobby and its allies, Israel gets more direct foreign aid -- about $3 billion a year -- than any other nation. There's a file cabinet somewhere in the State Department full of memoranda of understanding on military, diplomatic and economic affairs. Israel gets treated like a NATO member when it comes to military matters and like Canada or Mexico when it comes to free trade. There's an annual calendar full of meetings of joint strategic task forces and other collaborative sessions. And there's a presidential pledge, re-avowed by Bush in the East Room, that the United States will come to Israel's aid in the event of attack.

On Capitol Hill the Israel lobby commands large majorities in both the House and Senate. Polls show strong public support for Israel -- a connection that has grown even deeper after the September 11 attacks. The popular equation goes like this: Israelis equal good guys, Arabs equal terrorists. Working the Hill these days, says Josh Block, spokesman for the premier Israeli lobbying group known as AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, "is like pushing at an open door."

Not everyone believes this is a good thing. In March two distinguished political scientists -- Stephen Walt from Harvard and John Mearsheimer from the University of Chicago -- published a 42-page, heavily footnoted essay arguing that the Bush administration's support for Israel and its related effort to spread democracy throughout the Middle East have "inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardized U.S. security."

The professors claim that our intimate partnership with Israel is both dangerous and unprecedented. "Other special interest groups have managed to skew foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what the national interest would suggest," they argue. They go on to say that the war in Iraq "was due in large part to the Lobby's influence," and that the same combine is "using all of the strategies in its playbook" to pressure the administration into being aggressive and belligerent with Iran. The bottom line: "Israel's enemies get weakened or overthrown, Israel gets a free hand with the Palestinians, and the United States does most of the fighting, dying, rebuilding and paying."

A sweet deal for Israel, in other words, but a very bad one for America.

*snip*

The article is quite long, but does have some very good points, and reinterates what was said before. Anyone else agree/disagree with the idea that the US has become israels lapdog due to political and financial reasons?

[CptSternn]

Sorry, forgot to post the link - Washington Post -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?nav=hcmodule

[Falken]

While cognizant of the fact that the Jewish peoples suffered greatly during World War II, I think the last thing the British government should have done after the war was offer an appeasement to the world's Zionist Movement to create an Israeli state where there hadn't been one since Rome occupied Judea.

Early in my life, I did have sympathy for the Israelis, growing up in the 80's with the Lebanon crisis then and daily bombings by the PLO.

However, during the Palestinian Intifadah, I slowly lost my sympathy for the Israelis when I heard of their policy of completely bulldozing and knocking to the ground, any houses of families connected to Palestinians involved in the uprising.

And now, after Lebanon has rebuilt itself from the devastation of the southern part of the country during the Israeli occupation from 1982-2000, Beirut is being devastated once again by bombing attacks.

I am finding it harder and harder each day to find any sympathy for the Israeli government and military. These kidnappings of Israeli Army soldiers is no different from when Israel's military or Mossad kidnapped leaders of the PLO or Hezbollah in the 80s and 90s. It only stings them now because their own tactics have been used against them... that 3 Israeli army soldiers on duty could be kidnapped...

I'm beginning to think Israel's actions are not out of any desire to get back it's kidnapped soldiers, but are born out of wounded pride... they cannot stand to be on the receiving end of tactics they have employed in the past.

[CptSternn]

Your right on the money with that one.

Also, it doesn't help the NYT is reporting that Israel approached bush a year ago and told them they were attacking anyway, and that they are just using the soldiers capture as an excuse.

That combined with the fact today NYT has the headline...

U.S. Speeds Up Bomb Delivery for the Israelis

WASHINGTON, July 21 — The Bush administration is rushing a delivery of precision-guided bombs to Israel, which requested the expedited shipment last week after beginning its air campaign against Hezbollah targets in Lebanon, American officials said Friday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/22/wo...syahoo&emc=rss

Doesn't make the US look good either - with them supplying the bombs being dropped on civilians. Guess it explains why bush isn't doing anything - his father sits on the board of carlye - the group supplying the bombs, and profiteering once again off the deaths of innocent women and children.

[gloom_cookie]

Originally Posted by Falken

I think the last thing the British government should have done after the war was offer an appeasement to the world's Zionist Movement to create an Israeli state where there hadn't been one since Rome occupied Judea.

The decision to make a Jewish homeland, around an already existing population of Jews, was made by the League of Nations in the 20's.

[gloom_cookie]

Originally Posted by Falken

that 3 Israeli army soldiers on duty could be kidnapped...

Don't forget the attack by Hezbollah and the deaths of 8 Israeli soldiers, before the kidnappings occured.

[CptSternn]

Soldiers die. Thats what they do. Especially when they sit on top of land they are occupying that belongs to another country.

Geneva Convention, as well as a dozen other UN resolutions prohibits acts of 'retrobution', that means attacking innocent people in efforts to punish someone by proxy is a war crime - and exact what israel is famous for. They can't fight Hezbullah, so they kill as many innocent women and children they can in efforts to 'punish' the arab people.

For those who haven't had a chance, because they are in the states, to see the new images us in Europe and the Middle-east watch on our news every night, here is a few for you to get an idea of what you are missing.

http://iraq-kill-maim.org/qana/qana-photos.htm

We watch this daily while the us news, which we also get, merely glosses it over, shows a few planes and maybe some people running around, and then follows up with bush telling the country all is well.

We see the bodies of dead women and children being dragged from their homes that have been bombed by israel forces in efforts to 'free' them from the control of 'radicals' - radicals might I add that they voted for and STILL support.

[necrovatis]

actually guys most conflicts in the middle east and other regions are caused because of the israeli's from palestine - lebanon -egypt - jordan - syria - iran - iraq to afghanistan
there can be only one reason israel is the devil

[CptSternn]

I was at this yesterday, he gave a brilliant speech. He also went into detail about CIA flights in Shannon.

Carter blasts US policy on Palestinians

http://news.**********/s/ap/20070620...SlKWF9WWms0NUE

DUBLIN, Ireland - Former President Jimmy Carter accused the U.S., Israel and the European Union on Tuesday of seeking to divide the Palestinian people by reopening aid to President Mahmoud Abbas' new government in the West Bank while denying the same to the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip.

Carter, a Nobel Peace Prize winner who was addressing a human rights conference in Ireland, also said the Bush administration's refusal to accept Hamas' 2006 election victory was "criminal."

Carter said Hamas, besides winning a fair and democratic mandate that should have entitled it to lead the Palestinian government, had proven itself to be far more organized in its political and military showdowns with Abbas' moderate Fatah movement.

Hamas fighters routed Fatah in their violent takeover of the Gaza Strip last week. The split prompted Abbas to dissolve the power-sharing government with his rivals in Hamas and set up a Fatah-led administration to govern the West Bank.

Carter said the consensus of the U.S., Israel and the EU to start funneling aid to Abbas' new government in the West Bank but continue blocking Hamas in the Gaza Strip represented an "effort to divide Palestinians into two peoples."

"All efforts of the international community should be to reconcile the two, but there's no effort from the outside to bring the two together," he said.

The U.S. and European countries cut off the Hamas-led government last year because of the Islamic militant group's refusal to renounce violence and recognize Israel. They have continued to send humanitarian aid to Gaza through the United Nations and other organizations.

In the latest crisis, the U.S., Israel and much of the West have been trying to shore up Abbas in hopes that the West Bank can be made into a democratic example that would bring along Gaza.

During his speech to Ireland's annual Forum on Human Rights, the 83-year-old former president said monitors from his Carter Center observed the 2006 election that Hamas won. He said the vote was "orderly and fair" and Hamas triumphed, in part, because it was "shrewd in selecting candidates," whereas a divided, corrupt Fatah ran multiple candidates for single seats.

Far from encouraging Hamas' move into parliamentary politics, Carter said the U.S. and Israel, with European Union acquiescence, sought to subvert the outcome by shunning Hamas and helping Abbas to keep the reins of political and military power.

"That action was criminal," he said in a news conference after his speech.

"The United States and Israel decided to punish all the people in Palestine and did everything they could to deter a compromise between Hamas and Fatah," he said.

Carter said the U.S. and others supplied the Fatah-controlled security forces in Gaza with vastly superior weaponry in hopes they would "conquer Hamas in Gaza" — but Hamas routed Fatah in the fighting last week because of its "superior skills and discipline."

[CptSternn]

You have to love bush and his ideology. After reading my previous post, check out this one...

Bush Holds Israel Up As Model for Iraq

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...743437,00.html

NEWPORT, R.I. (AP) - President Bush held up Israel as a model for defining success in Iraq, saying Thursday that the goal of the U.S. mission there is not eliminating attacks but enabling a democracy that can function despite continuing violence.

So bush thinks israel is a success, and wants to model Iraq after it. CCTV everywhere, build walls to seperate different races of people, steal land from neighbors, indescriminately kill 'suspects' along with any bystanders, kill reporters and/or protestors that go against the current administration and of course create a second class of people who can't vote - thats what bush calls 'progress' and is the 'model' he is using for Iraq.

Considering that country has been at war since it was created, I'm thinking its not the model one wants their nation designed after.

Also, to even subtly imply that Iraq would be a better place if all the Muslims took the ways of the israelis and act more like them is also highly offensive.

I mean, its like saying your favorite sports team/writer/actor/etc. would be better if they were more like their biggest advesary.

But once again, this is the bush administration and we would expect nothing less than the bigoted hate-mongering he has demonstrated time and time again in every speech he gives.

[CptSternn]

Report: Israeli settlements in land grab

http://news.**********/s/ap/israel_s...j.n9KG7VbMWM0F

ERUSALEM - Nine in 10 Israeli settlements sprawl beyond their official boundaries in an attempt to grab more land in the West Bank, which the Palestinians claim for a future state, a group that tracks Israeli construction in the territory said Friday.

Israel's settlements encroach on unallocated land even though most of the area in their own jurisdictions remains empty, according to the report from the dovish Peace Now.

According to the report, 91 percent of the land allocated to settlements by the government is still empty, indicating that the use of land outside settlement boundaries does not "derive from a land shortage in the settlements" but from "a desire to expropriate more land." Israeli authorities do little to enforce building laws in the settlements, the report said.

The report also said 10 percent of the land officially allocated to the settlements is privately owned Palestinian land that Israel seized.

Yishai Hollander, a spokesman for the Yesha settlers council, accused Peace Now of continuing a "campaign of lies," saying the settlement jurisdictions do not include any land that belongs to Palestinians.

Peace Now's allegations, Hollander said, "are totally divorced from reality."

There are 122 official Israeli settlements in the West Bank, along with around 100 unauthorized settlement outposts. The Palestinians claim all of the West Bank, captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war, as part of a future state, and the international community has criticized Israel's settlement activities as an obstacle to peace.

Shlomo Dror, a spokesman for Israel's military administration in the West Bank, did not deny there were instances of settlement encroachment but said many of the failings noted in the Peace Now report have been corrected since the mid-1990s.

"Today we have better enforcement, the ownership of land is checked and we pursue legal action when necessary," Dror said.

There are two good shows produced by the BBC and Channel 4 last year - one called 'The Iron Wall' and the other 'The Killing Zone' which go into detail about this. Well worth the watch if you see them on telly. Actually, I ordered copies on DVD as they are real eye-openers for anyone who does not know whats going on there or has never seen life on the inside of this region.