Judgement Day

[Albert Mond]

I'm going to let you guess what my reasoning was.
That way if you guess a bit of reasoning EVEN BETTER than mine, I can tell you you're right.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Ah. I thought as much.

[JCC]

People often put every fibre of their being into their art as they believe that it's a worthwhile reflection of something important to them. If society took it upon itself to view every task as an art, worthy of that same effort, people would be more productive, and also much happier, than if they regarded tasks as duties. Whether it would fit with the definition of 'art' is questionable, but I don't think that semantics is Albert Mond's argument.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

But if we put our whole selves into everything we do, we'd burn out. Having a passion is great, but being passionate about everything is fucking nuts.
And we might not prioritize if everything was special.

In any case, that has more to do with putting one's whole self into something, rather than strictly art. One can put one's whole self into one's engineering projects or one's biology research. That doesn't make it art. (This last bit isn't aimed at you, JCC. It's aimed at people who might choose to ignore the last part of your post.)

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

But if we put our whole selves into everything we do, we'd burn out. Having a passion is great, but being passionate about everything is fucking nuts.
And we might not prioritize if everything was special.

In any case, that has more to do with putting one's whole self into something, rather than strictly art. One can put one's whole self into one's engineering projects or one's biology research. That doesn't make it art. (This last bit isn't aimed at you, JCC. It's aimed at people who might choose to ignore the last part of your post.)

You're right. It doesn't make it art. However, it's still art.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

So you're arguing that engineering and biology research is art?

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

So you're arguing that engineering and biology research is art?

No shit.
blacktext

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Why is it art, then?

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

Why is it art, then?

Why is a painting art?

[JCC]

Okay, since we're getting into a discussion on engineering being art, I would like to bring up this relevant quote:

'All art is quite useless.'

The only aspect of engineering that is an art is any part not required for a working finished product. If the only things that you use are the base requirements, then engineering can not be an art. But if you sprinkle glitter all over an engine to make it look pretty, despite the fact that you're a fucking idiot and it saddens me to admit this fact, it is an artistic decision.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

It doesn't provide the kind of useful function that biological research and engineering does. At least not directly. One can sell a painting to raise funds for biological research, or express the importance of biological research, or express a view that biological research is a waste of time, or do a drawing of a bridge concept or something (though that's more concept art), but those would are indirect methods of being useful.
I mean, what do you do with a painting? You hang it on a wall and speculate as to its meaning. You're going to use it to cure cancer or build a more efficient engine.

Edit: JCC: It's at least an aesthetic decision. I don't know if aesthetics necessarily equals art, since it could be other kinds of decoration too.

[JCC]

I already beat you to that bubba.

[Devil's Darling]

Some pretty little quotes about art :

Let me ask you something, what is not art? - Author Unknown
Art is the struggle to understand. - Audrey Foris
Art is not a thing; it is a way. - Elbert Hubbard
An artist's career always begins tomorrow. - James McNeill Whistler
Surely nothing has to listen to so many stupid remarks as a painting in a museum. - Edmond & Jules de Goncourt
A subject that is beautiful in itself gives no suggestion to the artist. It lacks imperfection. - Oscar Wilde
An artist cannot talk about his art any more than a plant can discuss horticulture. - Jean Cocteau
Art is a kind of illness. - Giacomo Puccini
Without art, the crudeness of reality would make the world unbearable. - George Bernard Shaw
Art is the only way to run away without leaving home. - Twyla Tharp
I don't paint things. I only paint the difference between things. - Henri Matisse
All art requires courage. - Anne Tucker
Art consists of limitation. The most beautiful part of every picture is the frame. - G.K. Chesterton
No great artist ever sees things as they really are. If he did, he would cease to be an artist. - Oscar Wilde

Now tell me based on these quotes what the hell art is! It's a illness,it's a way,it's escaping from reality,it's everything! All I can say is that ART is ART and it will stay ART.It has no stable definition and that's what makes it so beautiful and captivating.Arguing about the definition of art is like arguing about the definition of love!

[viscus]

Art is intention, goddamnit. If someone decides, as in LaBelleDameSansMerci's example, that the act of washing their hands is artistic, than so be it. They would be a moron, and the act would be inane, but it would still be art.

[nis~sijai]

Originally Posted by viscus

Art is intention, goddamnit. If someone decides, as in LaBelleDameSansMerci's example, that the act of washing their hands is artistic, than so be it. They would be a moron, and the act would be inane, but it would still be art.

True. But remember, art is not only defined by the artist but by the viewers as well.

[exacerbatedpoet]

Originally Posted by nis~sijai

True. But remember, art is not only defined by the artist but by the viewers as well.

Art is not defined by the viewers. If everyone one say was to say that the Mona Lisa was not art ( as stupid as that sounds), then would it not be art? No, it is still art not matter what. It you think that it is art then it is art because the purpose art of art is to satisfy something within a person. Art can have a function or not. Just because something isn't seen as conventional art, doesn't mean that it is not art.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

It's a balance of it. If viewers said the Mona Lisa wasn't art, but Da Vinci did, then there would be debate, which is a very natural thing to surround a piece of art (or possible piece of art). Though having debate around something doesn't mean it's art.
If EVERYONE agreed that something wasn't art, well, then why should it be art? Everyone agrees that it is not. You would also say it wasn't art, because you're part of everyone.

I have another question: Is the definition of art a rational thing that we can express and make crisp, or is it intuitive? Or am I just bad at expressing myself with words?

[Devil's Darling]

Art is not rational at all.It never was and it never will be rational.That's the hole magic of it.The enigmas behind every work of art just like Mona Lisa like c'mon didn't anyone noticed that the left side in the background has absolutely no connection with the right side?Why is that?

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Whole.

Mmm... as for the background of the Mona Lisa, I think it could be a lake at a higher elevation with a waterfall down to the river on the left... Though I do agree that it would be a bit of a stretch. I don't know. Leonardo did a lot of odd things.

[Devil's Darling]

Yes whole ) sorry I'm tired at this hour and I will make mistakes.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

It's a balance of it. If viewers said the Mona Lisa wasn't art, but Da Vinci did, then there would be debate, which is a very natural thing to surround a piece of art (or possible piece of art). Though having debate around something doesn't mean it's art.
If EVERYONE agreed that something wasn't art, well, then why should it be art? Everyone agrees that it is not. You would also say it wasn't art, because you're part of everyone.

That's bullshit. If absolutely everyone agreed that The Mona Lisa wasn't art, it would still be art by true definition. Some things aren't subjective. In order for it to really not be art, art would have to be something entirely different.

[Saya]

I once saw on A&E a documentary about this artist who was supposedly murdered by her boyfriend, and he was an artist too, but all he did was make a line of bricks in a field, and he became famous in the New York art scene for doing that. If thats art, than so is fashion.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

That's bullshit. If absolutely everyone agreed that The Mona Lisa wasn't art, it would still be art by true definition. Some things aren't subjective. In order for it to really not be art, art would have to be something entirely different.

But people are the ones who invented the concept of art, so we can, technically, change it. We *have* changed it. Most most MOST modern or contemporary art would not have been considered art 170 years ago.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

But people are the ones who invented the concept of art, so we can, technically, change it. We *have* changed it. Most most MOST modern or contemporary art would not have been considered art 170 years ago.

"The first and broadest sense of art is the one that has remained closest to the older Latin meaning, which roughly translates to "skill" or "craft," and also from an Indo-European root meaning "arrangement" or "to arrange". In this sense, art is whatever is described as having undergone a deliberate process of arrangement by an agent. A few examples where this meaning proves very broad include artifact, artificial, artifice, artillery, medical arts, and military arts. However, there are many other colloquial uses of the word, all with some relation to its etymology."
-Wiki

[Mealla]

Curioser and curioser. I'll take a fall down the rabbit hole.