South Dakota Outlaws Abortion

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11546410/

Basically, they've made aboriton illegal for anyone, even **** and incest victims. The only way you can legally have one is if the fetus is threatening the mothers life.

They're thinking this will make the case for a federal ban even better.

Discuss.

This is going too far. It's just poor of the religious nutjobs trying to push their morality codes and ideas on the rest of america. I understand that they think abortion is wrong, so if they don't want to get one, fine and dandy. But I don't think abortions are wrong, when they're needed. I'm not a Christian. Why should I have to follow what they think is moral and right in regards to this?

The point is that I shouldn't. I'm really getting tired of the fucking Christian AssFucks pushing their ideas and restrictions into politics.

[Pathogen.]

GEISHA GIRL: This looks like the first step toward a potential Neo-Con-initiated federal ban on abortion, like you said. I feel for those young women in South Dakota who are **** & incest survivours. Now they have to travel out of state in order rid themselves of a reminder of such horrible incidents. Things like this give me a solid enough reason to hate Protestant fundamentalists a lot more. On the real.

[Saya]

Last year I took a class called Ethical Issues, and we watched a movie on abortion. Its been around forever, and is globally widespread. In Thailand, for example, they have had people massage the belly of a pregnant woman until the placenta falls off the wall of the womb, and the Church has had, centuries back, thought that a person doesn't get a soul until three months (I think it was three months) and abortions before that point were okay, but some Pope changed it so that a soul is born upon conception.

Anyway, the movie also showed women in countries where abortions are outlawed, but that doesn't put a stop to it. I think it was Peru where women have back-alley abortions that are unsafe, and consume herbs that will force them to menstruate. Women who were caught were thrown in jail. In Ireland they showed a woman who had to travel all the way to England to get an abortion. Outlawing abortions doesn't work, it only makes people desperate.

I know I'm Canadian and I probably shouldn't criticize, but it seems that America, the center of the world, is regressing back in time with some of its social laws. I honestly am really surprised when I read on what a strong hold the Church has on the government. I guess I take my good ole government for granted. Government funded abortions for some, gay marriage for others!

It's about time we stopped the killing! Way to go South Dakota for standing up for the innocent ones who can't speak for themselves.
The US has been slaughtering babies for Thirty-Three years,it's about time we ended legalized murder.

Originally Posted by robster667

With millions upon millions of unwanted children in the world...

The girl should have thought of the consequences before getting herself knocked up.

[Wise Child]

And what about the r*pe and incest victims?

[Jane13]

"Church has had, centuries back, thought that a person doesn't get a soul until three months (I think it was three months) and abortions before that point were okay, but some Pope changed it so that a soul is born upon conception."

That's true. You're talking about Thomas Acquinas. His teachings are supposed to be the basis of the teachings of the Catholic church. I believe that Abortions should be allowed in the case of r ape or incest, but I generally do not believe in the concept of aborting a child. The bad thing is when the government has the ability to say you can't have one for any reason... because there will undoubtedly be women who will throw themselves down staircases, overdose on druggs, or stick clothes hangers into their bodies so that they will not have a child.

Basically, I do not agree with abortions on principal, but I can't judge and say that there is NO reason for an abortion.

[ThwanCondu]

What's with the censorship of the word '****'? It's not like we don't know what's behind the stars, and it's not like it's a god damn fucking swear word.

They make it that way so that perverts doing web searches wont come on to this site.

They have also banned the word l olita.

Reject bunnies, how about you back up your shit spraying mouth with a bit more common-sense and facts? If you're going to participate in a debate, have a fucking handle on the issue.

No one here, especially people who have had abortions, like myself, appreciates your shit talk. You don't know anything about anything in regards to this. You're spouting the same shit all your right wing wackos do.

So here's a big FUCK YOU to you and your incencitivity. I can safely say now that I wish your mother would have taken her liberties and ABORTED you, you piece of shit yahoo!

[Godslayer Jillian]

Wait, yesterday, we did like Reject_Bunnies. We cannot hate him for having a different oppinion, or else, why would we be any better than conservatives or radicals?
But Reject_Bunnies, look at every possibility first. You totally missed the **** victims which are the most important point in allowing abortion

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

I am going to ask this of everyone just once.

We have had this thread many, many times over the Years here.

It has ALWAYS ended up in Mass Bloodshed, and hurt feelings, and lost members.

That being said, I will allow this thread to remain open as long as EVERYONE can play nice.

This is a very sensitive issue, and one that many people on BOTH SIDES feel very passionately about.

Myself included.

Which is why I won't be participating in this discussion.

You guys are free to debate to your little Hearts content, but the first time I come in here with a Mop and Bucket for all of the Spilled Blood and Crushed Feelings, It's gone.

Please, please, please try and keep it clean okay?

I don't want to lose ANYONE over their personal stance on Abortion.

There are no easy right and wrong answers to this issue.

Please Respect the fact that when it comes down to it, the best thing for us to all do is 'agree to disagree'.

Share your observations, thoughts and feelings.. And let the other person do the same.

Again, it's not worth losing people over, and I don't want that happening again.

Thanks.

[Godslayer Jillian]

EPS, don't put that sad face. It makes me want to turn the world so that the frown will be upside down.

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Wait, yesterday, we did like Reject_Bunnies. We cannot hate him for having a different oppinion, or else, why would we be any better than conservatives or radicals?
But Reject_Bunnies, look at every possibility first. You totally missed the **** victims which are the most important point in allowing abortion

I don't hate anyone for having a different opinion then mine. What I hate is her yapping about shit she doesn't know, making off the ass remarks and not backing up shit.

I don't respect someone that attacks me with their opinions. I respect people that have a well formed thought and information to share.

Wolfmoon is against abortion as well, but no one jumps down her throat because she presents her argument in a well thought out manner. She doesn't fly off the ass and say "It's the dumb sluts fault and she should have to live with her mistake!"

See the difference?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Yeah, that's why I corrected him also. I like this thread because I don't know my position in this subject, so I'd like it to keep it just as civilized with you, and more conscious with Bunnies

[Phayte]

I don't agree with abortion. Frankly, I think of it as murder, but women should have the right to choose.
But, then there are people like my cousin who had four abortions for no other reason then she just didn't want it. After I found out all I could say to her was use a fucking condom. Was the last thing I said to her too.
I don't know where I'm going with this. Too many thoughts to sort through right now.

And those annoying preachy christian bastards can kiss my ass and keep all their bullshit to themselves. They make the rest of us look bad.

[CptSternn]

The funny thing is, the right wingers only want to 'save' babies.

That is unless the baby grows up to become an abortion doctor or doctor who practices euthenasia. Then it's ok to kill them.

Or God forbid, they are babies born in a muslim country, then they can become 'collateral damage' when the us institutes 'regime change'.

Then it's ok to kill innocent babies and everyone else without any guilt or concious, because those people are not americans, and in the end, its about protecting american babies, not anyone elses children.

25,000 dead civilians in Iraq, and not one congressman shedding a tear nor even mentioning it, and definately not doing anything like passing legislation to call it 'monsterous'.

I like the fact the supreme court got involved in the Terry Shiavo ordeal, along with half of congress, jeb bush, and all those protestors, but no one cares when the person dying or suffering isn't an american.

Not even when their own laws they use to protect these 'babies' are being used to kill, tourture, and indefinately imprison in other places in the world.

Originally Posted by GeishaGirl

I don't hate anyone for having a different opinion then mine.

Who exactly is the one:"spraying shit" around here? From what I've observed,you get your rocks off by verbally mutilating ANYONE over ANYTHING you don't like or take offense to at the moment.

Debate?Discuss? If you had graduated the Sixth Grade,you might have noticed that calling everyone who might not share your view on any particular subject:"Giant Poo-Poo Heads"isn't really making me feel you have a firm grasp on reality.

It's funny how you just met me and I've been reduced from:"Really Cool Person",to:"Wishing I had been Aborted";in just a mere matter of seconds.

Or why you assume I'm part of the:"Right-Wing Wacko Brigade"simply because I posted something you didn't like. Again,you've just met me-where exactly did I say what(If any) Religious views I have/believe? You've made it perfectly clear that you aren't Christan,so why open up a pseudo:"Discussion" when your mind/opinion on the matter is already set in stone(And Damn anyone who should oppose you).

This whole thread was rigged from the start.

Oh,by the way:Pregnancies resulting from **** are EXTREMELY rare...you might have realized this had you bothered to do any research on the subject.
Here's a morsel for you to nibble on:
- "Over 95% of all abortions are done simply because the mother does not want
the baby". "Multiple studies show that less than 1% of the
women who are ***** become pregnant".

[Source: Central Illinois Right To Life,NRLC.org ,University Press of America,pregnantpause.org,CDC..etc,etc]

[edible_eye]

Originally Posted by Reject_Bunnies

Oh,by the way:Pregnancies resulting from **** are EXTREMELY rare...you might have realized this had you bothered to do any research on the subject.
Here's a morsel for you to nibble on:
- "Over 95% of all abortions are done simply because the mother does not want
the baby". "Multiple studies show that less than 1% of the
women who are ***** become pregnant".

[Source: Central Illinois Right To Life,NRLC.org ,University Press of America,pregnantpause.org,CDC..etc,etc]

that's all well and good, but the census bureau estimates that there will be 130,860,569 births this year, 2006. if we round off the 'central illinois right to life' number to 1%, we're still talking about 1,308,606 - a number i would hardly call "EXTREMELY rare".

you obviously sit well inside the 'right to life' spectrum of the debate, or perhaps it should be called the 'anti-choice' side. i hope you and your parents have your names submitted to the orphanages to adopt unwanted babies since you'd opt for their birth rather than having a woman decide whether or not she should bring a chld into the world she didn't want.

[Jane13]

Then again, how many r apes are actually reported? Many women are ashamed to report their experiences with sexual abuse.

Originally Posted by edible_eye

..rather than having a woman decide whether or not she should bring a chld into the world she didn't want.

The woman who was r aped is the victim,and the baby(IF created as a result) is only an innocent third party in the matter. The only "Bad" person is the perpetrator.


Jane13:You might be interested to know:
84% of r ape victims know their attacker ("Acquaintance" or "Date" r ape)

[Wise Child]

Originally Posted by Reject_Bunnies

The woman who was r aped is the victim,and the baby(IF created as a result) is only an innocent third party in the matter. The only "Bad" person is the perpetrator.

Hmm. I see your point. I don't ultimately agree with denying abortion to women, especially r*pe victims, but I do see the point. I guess it depends on whether you prioritise the baby's right to life or the woman's right to avoid further psychological stress over something she never chose. I come down on the woman's side, but there's validity in both sides, I guess.

[Jane13]

Originally Posted by Reject_Bunnies

Jane13:You might be interested to know:
84% of r ape victims know their attacker ("Acquaintance" or "Date" r ape)

I know that, but I never said anything about it my post. I was talking about the shame women feel for being *****. The ones who do report it usually talk about guilt, as though they feel it was ultimately thier fault. I'm saying that the 1% (which E_E so kindly pointed out is not as small as it may seem) may not be altogether accurate, because **** victims may feel ashamed or scared to admit that they have been abused.

I do share you view that abortions are "wrong", but no one is perfect, and women will injure themselves in order to abort a fetus if safe abortions are not available.

[edible_eye]

Originally Posted by Reject_Bunnies

The woman who was r aped is the victim,and the baby(IF created as a result) is only an innocent third party in the matter. The only "Bad" person is the perpetrator.

absolutely the woman was the victim and if the end result was a pregnancy, then why do you feel it is justified that woman should continue to be victimized by birthing a constant reminder of the r.ape she endured - especially if she does not want it? the baby, although an "innocent third party", remains an entity connected to the woman's body - not yours.

and let's take this outside the context of r.ape, shall we? what about the drug abusing masses out there? the prostitutes? those who remain ignorant of life and its natural processes? those taken advantage of? those who can not afford to keep a baby and rather than leave it to starve, decide to get rid of it?

not every baby born is a smiling, pink ball of happiness. there are babies who suffer great abuse and damage as a result of not being wanted. ever see a child with cigarette burn marks across its body, not to mention the scars of being beaten by a belt, a stick or perhaps a young girl who has been torn while being sold for money? ever seen a kid with his nipples cut off because his drunken father decided to remove them one night with a knife because "you don't need 'em anyway"? ever hear a parent speak of how they never wanted a fuckin' kid to begin with but they couldn't get rid of it, so they had the little fucker and it's been a pain in the ass ever since, while the child sits right next to her? ever see the eyes of a child that's been beaten and mentally abused for so long, it knows nothing else and views the world through those murky eyes as a hell it wishes to rid itself from? i have. i've seen exactly all that and much more.

and i understand this isn't the deal in every case of abortion - maybe not even a majority of cases but the fact remains, shit like this happens. an option to abort or remove an unwanted piece of oneself should remain on the table, rather than having faceless, anonymous groups making up the minds of individuals they've never met.

[Black Widow]

I agree with edible_eye. Also, it infringes our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, to ban abortions, because some right-wing republican motherfucker wants to "save the kid's soul" or some bullshit like that. BTW, r*** victims aren't the most important reason to keep abortion an option IMO, but the parents who aren't fit to raise kids: the ones with insufficient funds, the abusive couple, etc. No kid wants to be raised in that hell.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Although the baby is not responsible for his father's deeds in the **** victims, you have to understand the woman.
No man could ever realize the magnitude of having a living being inside you, so we cannot get near to understanding a woman's feelings knowing she will have the child of the man who has hurt her as no one ever in her life.