Christianity: Too controlling?

[Queenofdarkness57]

Originally Posted by Saya

The Bible states many times that women were created to serve men.

While many Muslims do believe non-believers will go to hell, its not black and white, it differs just like Christians. Muhammad said "Those who show compassion on earth shall be shown compassion in heaven." The Koran is very liberal, allowing women many rights, such as the right to divorce her husband, but there is another book in Islam,the Hadith,in which there are laws taken as "interpretations" of the Koran. It was made by sexist holy men and they themselves warned agaisnt taking it to law, but unfortunately it seems that its deemed more important than the Koran sometimes.

I read a book called "Princess" by Jean Sasson( i think). It's a true story about a Saudi Arabian princess. It was written somehere that if women ask for a divorce, it will be ignored and not taken into consideration( Just like in her case) Hence, only men "in general" have the right to divorce.

[Saya]

Yes, and thats a case of patriarchal societies twisting their religion to suit themselves. Like the laws of Jihad? You can't force someone to convert to Islam using force. Now? Killing in the name of religion.

Its like extremists don't read the Koran.

[Betrothed2Death]

I think that a lot of religions can be hypocritical and I'm not trying to single Christianity out but isn't it in the bible that you shouldn't kill or you'll go to hell? Then what's with the "killing in the name of God"? Isn't that an oxymoron of sorts?

Here's a poem I wrote awhile ago that expresses my anxiety over this very topic so I feel it's appropriate to post here...

Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned.
I eat a lot and always drink.
I smoke and lust and make mistakes.
I care not of the risks I take.
Premarital sex made me kill my child,
But if I hadn’t, how could I hide?
I’m lazy, foolish, and mean to people,
But lack of sleep can make anyone evil.
I cut and cry and hope to die,
And to you, it seems not right.
I think too much and am loosing faith.
How can God subject one girl to so much hate?
I love a woman, although I’m one, too,
But no one can change me, not me, not you.
I cheat and hate; I lie and steal.
I intentionally hurt myself just to feel.
I try to be good and do the right thing,
To live a pure life, be happy and sing.
I sin so much according to you,
But if you were me, you’d do it all, too.
I want to be pure, but it’s so hard.
You ask so much and all is barred.
Forgive me, Father, for all that I’ve done.
Forgive me, Father, for what I’ve become.
Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned.
Forgive me, Father, for being human.

- also, I just want to state that I'm not trying to generalize or stereotype or anything like that. All that I say is just based off of personal experiences and observations. And actually, I was shunned when I was little by almost every single girl in my class because I didn't believe in God so I've kinda taken harshly to religion and believe that while it can be a nice and uplifting thing to have, it can also be more painful than being crucified.

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Originally Posted by Queenofdarkness57

I read a book called "Princess" by Jean Sasson( i think). It's a true story about a Saudi Arabian princess. It was written somehere that if women ask for a divorce, it will be ignored and not taken into consideration( Just like in her case) Hence, only men "in general" have the right to divorce.

I read that years ago.

If memory serves me correctly, it was written by Princess Sultana of the Saudi Arabian Royal Family. Her husband also had a doctor mutilate her genitals, and remove her clitoris as punishment for trying to run away, and to prevent her from feeling any sexual pleasure.

If thats the same book I am thinking about.

Women in many Countries are still treated far worse today than most herd animals are treated.

[Queenofdarkness57]

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

I read that years ago.

If memory serves me correctly, it was written by Princess Sultana of the Saudi Arabian Royal Family. Her husband also had a doctor mutilate her genitals, and remove her clitoris as punishment for trying to run away, and to prevent her from feeling any sexual pleasure.

If thats the same book I am thinking about.

Women in many Countries are still treated far worse today than most herd animals are treated.

Yup, but she didn't write it herself. She escaped from Saudi Arabi and went to the States. She asked Jean Sasson to write this book to show people the life in the Empire. No, her husband only asked her if her father did that to her. I think it was the father who ordered the doctor to perform it on her Princess Sultana's sister( I think so).

[succubus,queenofvampires]

There's a book similar to "Princess" called "La Prisonniere", which is found in both English and French. If I'm not mistaken, it is one of Oprah's Book Club's books. It talks about Malika Oufkir who was adopted bt the King of Morocco, but when her father was arrested after attempting to assassinate the King, her family was isolated in a desert gaol for 15 years and they tried to escape by digging a tunnel but were captured.

[OnixxFilth]

I think "lust" is specifically referred to in the Bible as a sin.

[Dead Angel]

Liberal christians like Robin Williams can joke about it.

Roman CATHOLOISM is too controling, as well as the mormon/JW culots and southern baptists.

[Sobeh]

Originally Posted by Dead Angel

Roman CATHOLOISM is too controling, as well as the mormon/JW culots and southern baptists.

You mean Catholicism? And the / between Mormon and Jehovah's Witnesses kinda looks like you see them as the same animal in different clothing, which isn't accurate at all. I wonder what you mean by these statements...

[OnixxFilth]

Well, even within Catholicism, there are various churches that are more or less liberal or conservative.

[spookypurple]

Originally Posted by Dead Angel

Liberal christians like Robin Williams can joke about it.

Roman CATHOLOISM is too controling, as well as the mormon/JW culots and southern baptists.

:ears pricking up:

What have you heard?

(Mind you, I think I'm more curious about the wearing culottes thing!)

[Godslayer Jillian]

Hey, check it out:
Sobeh
may take on other forms!
I haven't noticed it

[Sobeh]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Hey, check it out:
Sobeh
may take on other forms!
I haven't noticed it

You haven't noticed my various tamagothi forms?? My intro thread has a few of the ones I've used - maybe I'll go back there and post a continuation with the ones I've used up until now.

And, in keeping some sort of continuity with this topic...

I just noticed 'controling' wasn't spelled properly in the thread title!

[cannibalnuns]

Religion is not really my bag. No religion is wrong and no religion is right. Only wrong in the eyes of those who follow a specific type of belief that conflicts with their own. But yeah any religion that has guidlines (don't most or was that shallow to say?) I can see as controlling. It is not just christianity either but blah whatever.

I will happily await the next phase of evolution, maybe I will grow a second ass.

[Mr.Crow13666]

I dislike any religion that tells me i'm going to suffer for not believing in it. As such I have an immense respect for buddhists as you guys are so tolerant.

I'm agnostic, becuase honestly if every religion is going to say its the right one, then I'd rather not be a part of it. I think the right religion wouldn't care if your with them or not, they would be looking for the good of humanity....hahaha good of humanity...no one cares about that...well I'm off to bed.

[spookypurple]

Absolutely! I mean, where's the free agency. How do we learn anything if it's rammed down our throats? I would hate the idea of "You will do this or I'll tan your backside for all eternity".

I go more for the free will. You know, "you have a choice, each choice has consequences. Deal with it ."(me, I mean).

Personally, I don't give two hoots what religion someone is, as long as they're nice to me!

[angel_dark_demon_bright]

Oh great, just what we all need...another debate about how much religion sucks. We must be running thin on topics to talk about.

[OnixxFilth]

Well, doesn't every religion claim it's the right one? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[OnixxFilth]

That's very true. So in a way, aren't all religions controlling to a greater or lesser degree?

[angel_dark_demon_bright]

I know but the vast majority of it is about how much people hate religion, mostly christianity. That i can think of off the top of my head there have been atleast two threads of this topic previously.

How about a discussion about new discussions?

[Sobeh]

(1) Don't think that just because a religion claims that its own view of things is correct automatically means they think other views are incorrect - that's not nearly as true as you might like to think.

(2) I'd suggest that religion is nearly enough the most important topic one can talk about. Like the Calvin and Hobbes cartoon; Calvin is in class and the teacher asks, "Does anyone have any questions?" He responds with, "What's the meaning of life?" The teacher clarifies, "No, I meant about the math problem." Calvin retorts to himself, "Frankly, I'd rather have an answer before moving on..."

(3) Let's say people are talking about how much they feel religion fails to address in their lives, that it 'sucks'. Seems like that's a hot topic (damned store ruining a good idiom), and as such worthy of discussion - a 'moot point' according to the true use of that word. At any rate, that Christianity seems to be on people's minds more than other traditions is likely because our cultural experience is largely related to that tradition when we think about religion generally. Maybe you could think about what the emotions and minds are like behind those comments, instead of complaining about the presentation.

[angel_dark_demon_bright]

I was actually refering to any threads that have anything to do with religion Xng, they all containing mostly anti-christian posts.

[spookypurple]

So what are your thoughts on the matter, then, angel_dark_demon_bright? What's your experience of the whole process?

And, to be completely random (and a weensy bit flippant) - perhaps we can at some point discuss how many perfectly good idioms have been spoiled for the rest of us by their use in the media/commercialism - as per Sobeh's comment?

[spookypurple]

You're right. That's the scary thing about opinions. Everyone's allowed them.

I enjoy a good discussion. Even a bit of an ol' debate at times. But debate is rational and accepts and highlights differences.

Or I am thinking of foundation creme?

angel_dark - If something someone says makes you boil, you have to ask yourself why.... Be it religion or anything else for that matter.

[OnixxFilth]

Well, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, as long as they don't push it on anyone else.