Vampirefreaks murder case...

[Ryle]

Somehow I actually find this to be quite sad. The author of this thread is trying to set the blame for the actions of one person, onto the shoulders of another.

Let me give you an example of how this cannot work.

A man goes to a baseball game and is watching the Cubs play the Cardinals. It doesnt matter who the teams are, but he is watching them play. He is there with a hundred thousand other fans. He meets a girl of 12, who slipped by security with a fake ID claiming she was 13. They hit it off and leave the baseball game together. In secret they plot to kill the girls family. At the next game, it is discovered that they killed the parents. So the news media blames the ballpark for the tragedy, just to score an easy cop out for the crime. They blame the umpires, and stadium security. The stadium is offended by these accusations and fires back a statement, that people just dont like baseball. So then we have a disgruntled fan stand up and piss about how the whole ballpark should be shut down.

Can someone please tell me at exactly what point the ballpark fucked up? How can you blame someone or something that had ZERO to do with an action?

Until you can answer both of those questions, your entire platform is baseless and ignorant.

Have a spiffy day.

[Magpie_Tendencies]

Shit. Your analogy was a little confusing. It made sense up until the part where dirty old man meets lying child. Then it got confusing. However, having waded my way through it, I think you do make an interesting point.

Now, if you'll just go introduce yourself and act like you want to be a part of the community, instead of someone who just joined to bitch and whine, I might actually care.

Have a spiffy day.

[Wise Child]

Oh, shut up. If you're not here to contribute then just fucking go already. You've made your point (though why you feel the need to continue to make it and make it eludes me - as stated, most people's problem with VF is not that they necessarily view the site itself as directly responsible for these crimes, but that it's shite and attracts knob jockeys in their thousands). Our platform is not "useless and ignorant", because it's not (in the case of many members) what you're trying to twist it into.

Gheist - "before I rid myself of this idiocy"? Good luck with that. You'll need a determined will and a shitload of education. Still, you want to change, and I guess that's the first step.

[horrorgirl]

Originally Posted by devourer

I don't want to change your mind about VampireFreaks... in fact I don't have to... VampireFreaks is basically a message board like this... It is not the site that causes problems it's the members and VampireFreaks has a stricter policy for allowing people to write on there (for a start they actually verify the email adress). I have also witnessed removal of members that have racist remarks and/or nudity on their profiles by the staff of VampireFreaks... the problem is there are so many members that it is hard to check them all and they rely on the members to report any that they might miss (this system is not infallible).

VF is not a message board, It is a rating community. If there are too many members then that is the fault of the owner. He did not check the growth of his own site. Obviously there are not enough people monitoring the posts, and profiles, being made there. That is the owners fault.

Originally Posted by devourer

As I said before they could have quite easily been members of this site... it wouldn't change what happened and seeing as I have been a member of VF for some time I have got to know some of the more intelligent and nicer members.

Believe me, they wouldn’t be member of this site. People here don’t like idiots. Anybody who uses horrible grammar and spelling is flamed. As you have noticed.

Originally Posted by devourer

I see you go on about teenagers showing half naked photos but I'm pretty sure you get that on Face The Jury, Rate My Body and the likes...

And as for making death threats and acting like ansty morons I am sure you will find you get that on other forums too...

Maybe you'd like to complain about those as well?

So, because other sites are as idiotic as VF that must make it okay. No, it doesn’t. I think the world would be a better place if ALL rating sites disappeared. People who go onto sites and who want to be judged by total strangers have issues.

Originally Posted by devourer

Other people on this thread that are younger than you have realised that we have a more informed view of the site you are complaining about and that we are just trying to clarify what actually takes place on that site. You insist on perpetuating your biased views without actually considering what we are saying... you just go off and reply without actually processing the information we are presenting you with in much the same way as some 15 year olds do.

No, I am reading what you are saying BUT I am not agreeing with it. Just because I don’t agree with your views does not make me less mature than you. It just means that I speak my mind. If you don’t like people not agreeing with you then that is your tough luck. Part of growing up is realizing that others are not always going to see your point of view on a subject. Wow, I just taught you a life lesson. Imagine that.
According to my spell check your user name is grammatically incorrect. Either that or you have it spelled wrong. How annoying. This post is brought to you by Metallica’s Master Of Puppets.

[horrorgirl]

Originally Posted by gheist

Horrorgirl, I find it odd that you keep making a reference to not only twelve year olds being members of the vampirfreaks community, but also repeatedly make accusations about vampirefreaks "allowing" nude pictures to be posted. I'd like to point out that the minimum age for a member to join the site, is 13, not twelve. Yes, you can lie, and people do, but when they are found, they are removed. However, your also attacking the site staff with your purely opinionated views that vampirefreaks actually allows such activity to go unchecked. First off, the site is one of over half a million members, with less than twenty administrators, those few people do not have the time, nor the means, to litterally screen every image that is submitted to the site. It's just not possible. However, on that I would also like to point out that, in all reality, I could have just as easily submitted a phalic symbol or vaginal area as my image here, it also was not checked. Granted, if I had done so, I would likely be reported for site infraction, and hopefully promptly removed. Which leads me to my point, you say you have seen such images, which also leads me to believe that you yourself either are, or at one time were a member of vampirefreaks.com. While you banter on and on about the site "allowing" these things to go, you also put yourself in violation of the site rules, as it clearly states that should you find any of these images, you are to report them to administration. This only goes to prove that you chose to disregard them, due to your displeasure for the site, for whatever reason that may be. Honestly, in my opinion, I believe that you simply want vampirefreaks to be removed because you were not accepted into our community. Either some people didn't "give you tens" (which most of the mature members of the site dont care about anyway), or you were ridiculed and generally unaccepted by the site for having a sour nature. My opinion leans by far more strongly to the latter.

Whose fault is it that there are not enough administrators to watch over that site? Um...I’ll take a stab at that question. I would have to say the owner. He wanted to make more money so he kept adding and adding to the site until he lost control of it. No, I have never been a member. I have only ‘browsed’ the site. I wouldn’t lower myself to join, my computer might get the cooties or some other horrible virus. I wasn’t accepted by the site? Why would I want to be accepted by people like you? You’re spelling is horrible and you troll community boards arguing about a RATING COMMUNITY. Good job! Is mommy proud? By the way, still aren’t out of Jet’s uterus yet?

Originally Posted by gheist

Fabricating information for the sake of distaste or dipleasure, how do you justify this? You don't like someone, so you make every attempt you can to get them in trouble. Sounds like typical teen agnst to me really, though based on the grandios scale of your accusations, I've deducted a more accurate analogy for your actions, wherein; You don't like someone, so you make every attempt you can to end there life. I base this by comparing your judgmental attitude, with the original nature of this thread. Your actions are no better, and you should really learn to practice what you preach.

No, I haven’t fabricated any information. You have totally proved my point about the members of that site. Thanks for helping out!
If I could magically rid the world of idiots who can’t spell, use correct grammar, and who troll other communities then I would. Poof....be gone!

Originally Posted by gheist

One last note, before I rid myself of this idiocy. Throughout the course of my day, and only to prove a point in fact that your accusations are hollow, and you all should really be more focused on the lax security measures of your own site, I got in contact with several of my friends, asking them or members of there families to join this site. Only to prove my point, of course. Within the last fourteen or so hours I brought one of my good friends seven year old daughter, my own eight year old nephew, my twelve year old Godson, and another of my good friends four and a half year old daughter. This is just those who confirmed that they made accounts, who are of the juvinile spectrum. However, I also asked a few of my contacts to ask for individuals of a select nature to join this site aswell. Those confirmed thus far are; Three former rapests, a former child pornography videotographer, and seven other known sex offenders from the local area. Nearly half of whom are either former, or known **********. None, were even asked so much as there age.

Though even our members will agree, vampirefreaks.com is not perfect, that is impossible, at least we make an attempt to screen our members. I've seen nothing of the sort here.

I'll be off then, as I cannot stand the rediculusly slow page loading speed, nor the poorly made code for this site. Good day.

The way you could rid yourself of this idiocy is to STOP posting. Seriously. My, you’re dramatic. Oh, wow. you asked sex offenders to join this site. Um....yeah right kid. HA! This site does have a slow page loading site. It sucks, doesn’t it? Okay, have a nice day at school! By the way, use spell check the next time you post because you writing is hard on the eyes.

[J.M.Lovechild]

The ballpark analogy is completey different to the VF issue. Yes, it would be fair to blame the ballpark if the dirty old man and the child had been openly flirting and beginning the relationship in full view of the staff. Or if after the murders had taken place, posters or something were left up honouring the man and girl.

Someone asked how Jet can be held responsible for moderating over half a million members. Well if he's not responsible enough to arrange some way to have members moderated (and stop 12 year olds joining a "sex cult") he shouldn't bloody well be taking it upon himself to create such a website.

Nobody on this forum said "Jet and VF are directly responsible for these murders.". They merely said that the site was, in their personal opinion, crap and that it was very badly moderated. One has every right to ask however, if VF had been more closely moderated and the relationship between a 12 year old and 23 year old paedophile had been detected, could the murders have been prevented? It's not an unreasonable thought.

[horrorgirl]

Originally Posted by Ryle

Somehow I actually find this to be quite sad. The author of this thread is trying to set the blame for the actions of one person, onto the shoulders of another.

That sentence made no sense at all. Really.

Originally Posted by Ryle

Let me give you an example of how this cannot work.

A man goes to a baseball game and is watching the Cubs play the Cardinals. It doesnt matter who the teams are, but he is watching them play. He is there with a hundred thousand other fans. He meets a girl of 12, who slipped by security with a fake ID claiming she was 13. They hit it off and leave the baseball game together. In secret they plot to kill the girls family. At the next game, it is discovered that they killed the parents. So the news media blames the ballpark for the tragedy, just to score an easy cop out for the crime. They blame the umpires, and stadium security. The stadium is offended by these accusations and fires back a statement, that people just dont like baseball. So then we have a disgruntled fan stand up and piss about how the whole ballpark should be shut down.

Um......a ballpark is a whole bunch different that a RATING COMMUNITY. Personally, I find you ballpark analogy to be a bit weak. I don’t like baseball, so I would ask them to tear down the stadium. Wait a second....that would mean less ‘preps’ and ‘jocks’ for the members of VF to talk about. Wouldn’t that make you happy?

Originally Posted by Ryle

Can someone please tell me at exactly what point the ballpark fucked up? How can you blame someone or something that had ZERO to do with an action?

Until you can answer both of those questions, your entire platform is baseless and ignorant.

Have a spiffy day.

Let’s see....the ballpark screwed up by just existing. Ballparks should not exist because they allow the growth of a jock mentality, that ends up hurting kids who post on VF who call themselves ‘individuals’. It’s funny how all of those ‘individuals’ act exactly the same. Isn’t it? Anyway, on to the second part of the question. Ballparks are the center of all that is evil in the galaxy. They are way points for lost aliens and zombies. For some reason zombies like ballparks and go to them whenever they have the chance. It’s quite a thing to see, zombie’s gathering at a ballpark late at night singing show tunes.

[Wise Child]

I feel kind of sorry for kids nowadays - because of the media, the actions of a few psychotic little shits are known by the whole country, and the rest of them are kept under a tight rein over things like the internet. It's a pity when roughly 70-80% of them have enough of a brain that you could allow them to roam the internet completely free of supervision with no real problems.

Still, though, if your site has over a million members, I guess that problematic 20-30% is a lot. Worth getting a few moderators in. I mean, given that it's so popular (why, I have no idea), the place must make money. (Are moderators paid? I really have no idea.)

[Bawb]

What is vampirefreaks?

Doesnt sound like a very nice place. Then again, this horrorgirl just came off sounding like the very 12 years olds she is trying to slam.

That was a rather childish rebuttal to that Ryle person.

[horrorgirl]

Originally Posted by Wise Child

I feel kind of sorry for kids nowadays - because of the media, the actions of a few psychotic little shits are known by the whole country, and the rest of them are kept under a tight rein over things like the internet. It's a pity when roughly 70-80% of them have enough of a brain that you could allow them to roam the internet completely free of supervision with no real problems.

Still, though, if your site has over a million members, I guess that problematic 20-30% is a lot. Worth getting a few moderators in. I mean, given that it's so popular (why, I have no idea), the place must make money. (Are moderators paid? I really have no idea.)

It all comes down to the owner not having enough moderators on that site. I don't know whether that is due to him being ignorant or greedy. It has to be one of the two.

[horrorgirl]

Originally Posted by Bawb

What is vampirefreaks?

Doesnt sound like a very nice place. Then again, this horrorgirl just came off sounding like the very 12 years olds she is trying to slam.

That was a rather childish rebuttal to that Ryle person.

Let me guess. You are yet another member of that site coming over here and complaining. Thanks for your vote of confidence! :-) I'm beginning to have my very own fan club! That has always been my dream!

[Bawb]

I dont even know what it is, where is this vampirefreaks? No I am not a member of it, whatever it is.


I just think that whoever that ryle person was, that they made a good point, and the horrorgirl lady totally dodged it by spewing some random crap about jocks. It was kind of lame to just ignore the meat of the post.

[horrorgirl]

Originally Posted by Bawb

I dont even know what it is, where is this vampirefreaks? No I am not a member of it, whatever it is.


I just think that whoever that ryle person was, that they made a good point, and the horrorgirl lady totally dodged it by spewing some random crap about jocks. It was kind of lame to just ignore the meat of the post.

It could be that I ignored the 'meat of the post' because it was a bunch of troll inspired drivel. For somebody who has just joined the site you sure are getting off on the wrong foot.

[Wise Child]

But did horrorgirl not also make a good point about the fact that such incidents could be greatly reduced with the implementation of a decent moderating system? And did Ryle not dodge that by failing to address it? Given that Ryle also used a really lame analogy involving a ballpark that made no sense at all. I have to say, of the two, I personally lean more towards horrogirl's point of view. (Partly because I'm not entirely certain what the other guy was trying to say, of course. But still.)

[Bawb]

Well I seem to be the unbiased third party here, the very person you should be trying to convince. Frankly I think both sides have issues. I actually read this entire, dreadfully long, thread and noticed a few things.

1. The regular people on here really hate this vampirefreaks
2. The newer people on here seem to be defending it, and have much better points than the older members. So much better than I am actually taking them as havign more merit, since they seemed to know what they were talking about (specifically the ghost guy)
3. I find it odd that someone needs to bash a person because of their affiliation with something.

[Bawb]

I actually got what Ryle meant. According to him, the girl was posing as a person of legal age. That is very difficult if not impossible to prove on a website. Moreso if the minimum age is 13, as most verification systems use credit cards to prove ages.

He was trying to say I think that the girl had gotten past the security and was undetected afterwards cause there was nothing to look for.

[horrorgirl]

Originally Posted by Bawb

Well I seem to be the unbiased third party here, the very person you should be trying to convince. Frankly I think both sides have issues. I actually read this entire, dreadfully long, thread and noticed a few things.

1. The regular people on here really hate this vampirefreaks
2. The newer people on here seem to be defending it, and have much better points than the older members. So much better than I am actually taking them as havign more merit, since they seemed to know what they were talking about (specifically the ghost guy)
3. I find it odd that someone needs to bash a person because of their affiliation with something.

So, you are slamming all of the board regulars because they didn't come across as intelligent as the trolls? You are going to have a great time here! It is obvious to me that you are a member of that site coming over here trying to defend it by pretending to be a disinterested third party. Wow....I didn't think you guys were that creative!

[Bawb]

No, I am pointing out the fact that instead of debating it with them, you resorted to flaming "jocks" in general.

[horrorgirl]

Originally Posted by Bawb

I actually got what Ryle meant. According to him, the girl was posing as a person of legal age. That is very difficult if not impossible to prove on a website. Moreso if the minimum age is 13, as most verification systems use credit cards to prove ages.

He was trying to say I think that the girl had gotten past the security and was undetected afterwards cause there was nothing to look for.

You obviously either don't know that whole story, or are just chosing to be ignorant. Actually, the guy who helped the girl kill her parents said to people on the site that he was going to do something evil to the girl's parents a couple of days before it happened. So, that means that some people on the site knew something was going to go down. Oops!

Maybe they should make the age 18+. I mean, wouldn't that cause a lot of the younger people to unjoin the site? Oh wait, that would mean less money for the owner.

For somebody who is 'disinterested' you sure are trying to defend a crap site to the death.

[Wise Child]

Originally Posted by Bawb

I actually got what Ryle meant. According to him, the girl was posing as a person of legal age. That is very difficult if not impossible to prove on a website. Moreso if the minimum age is 13, as most verification systems use credit cards to prove ages.

He was trying to say I think that the girl had gotten past the security and was undetected afterwards cause there was nothing to look for.

Hmm. Personally I think it's a little like saying, "hey, it's not our fault someone got beaten to death in our club - we had bouncers on the door!" Sure, but did you have a couple inside, trotting around keeping an eye on things, like most clubs do? You know, where things are actually likely to kick off? Or did you assume that once they've managed to get in okay, they'll *probably* behave themselves, and leave them to it? Which is what VF seems to have done - by their members' own admission, huge parts of the site are completely unmoderated. Sure, here we may have a more lax registration process. But you can be fairly sure that every single forum will have moderators in and out of them regularly (with the exception of lately, since e_e randomly got removed and EPS seems to be away).

[horrorgirl]

Originally Posted by Bawb

No, I am pointing out the fact that instead of debating it with them, you resorted to flaming "jocks" in general.

There is no point in trying to 'debate' with trolls who make no sense when the post. Recognizing sarcasm isn't your strong suit.

[Wise Child]

Originally Posted by Bawb

Well I seem to be the unbiased third party here, the very person you should be trying to convince.

Why "should" we try to convince you? I think you're overestimating the extent to which people here "should" care what you think.

Originally Posted by Bawb

Frankly I think both sides have issues. I actually read this entire, dreadfully long, thread and noticed a few things.

Frankly, I think you're from vampirefreaks.com. Maybe it's the grammar, maybe it's the fact that your short and rushed introduction looked like you only posted it as a formality so we wouldn't attack you for that (good move, btw - observing the etiquette will earn you a measure of civility, at least at first), or maybe it's the fact that this is the only thread you seem to have any interest in. Take your pick.

Originally Posted by Bawb

1. The regular people on here really hate this vampirefreaks
2. The newer people on here seem to be defending it, and have much better points than the older members. So much better than I am actually taking them as havign more merit, since they seemed to know what they were talking about (specifically the ghost guy)
3. I find it odd that someone needs to bash a person because of their affiliation with something.

1. Yes, a lot of us do. That doesn't mean that we insist everyone else do likewise - it just doesn't appeal to our taste, and many members here find it something of a joke.
2. You accuse us of being biassed and not them? Wait a minute, I thought you were the impartial third party?
3. The reasons they were attacked have been explained, and it'snot because they like VF.

Well... not primarily.

[beyondredemption]

I think the main issue that my learned friend and myself had was your portrayal had no basis i fact.
The links lead to captured screen shots, the accusations are erroneous at best and whilst everysite has its fair share of idiots at least we do something to try and protect the membership.
As for horror girl to meet a fair argument and view with the comments she used demonstrate more the attitude of a 14 yr old than someone approaching my own age..
In short you cant expect to open up a topic and not recieve an opposing point off view.. We allow the same on VF.. in fact we are more than tolerant of most things bar out and out abuse from others in posts.

[horrorgirl]

Originally Posted by beyondredemption

I think the main issue that my learned friend and myself had was your portrayal had no basis i fact.
The links lead to captured screen shots, the accusations are erroneous at best and whilst everysite has its fair share of idiots at least we do something to try and protect the membership.
As for horror girl to meet a fair argument and view with the comments she used demonstrate more the attitude of a 14 yr old than someone approaching my own age..
In short you cant expect to open up a topic and not recieve an opposing point off view.. We allow the same on VF.. in fact we are more than tolerant of most things bar out and out abuse from others in posts.

Please tell me that English is not your first language.

Do you know what? I don’t even know how to ‘capture’ a screen shot because I am a fucktard when it comes to computers. Really, I am! I don’t know why you people refuse to believe that there are a large amount of idiots on that site. I guess the truth hits a little to close to home, eh?

Again, a person cannot have a debate with a person who is troll. Especially one that defends a really crappy site to the death. And what, pray tell, is your age? Judging from you horrid use of grammar I would guess 12, tops. I never said that you couldn’t debate this subject. So far you guys haven’t. All you have done is come in here and troll a board using bad grammar, bad spelling, and in general not making any sense whatsoever. The only reason you learned about my initial post is because one of your board buddies got angry that somebody was effectively ‘dissing’ their favorite web haunt, and then proceeded to give the link to every single one of their friends.

Face it. Not everybody likes VF, No matter what you say, or how you attempt to say it, you are not going to change any minds. In fact the more you guys post the more my point of view seems correct. Thanks for the help!

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Bawb

I actually got what Ryle meant. According to him, the girl was posing as a person of legal age. That is very difficult if not impossible to prove on a website. Moreso if the minimum age is 13

Um...there is one little issue with this it isn't all that hard to tell most 12 year olds apart from 18 year olds and even if you don't have to be 18 to be on the site you do have to be that old in order to post pornographic pictures which a lot of these kids do.

Also another point about mods, they aren't hard to get and a lot of people that care about a site will regard it as an honor and will do it for free (there are sites that pay mods but there are also sites that have volunteer mods) so there really is no reason for VF to be under moderated, no one, in their right mind, can argue that it isn't.

For the record I was a member of the site a while back but I left after only a few days because I was sick of getting comments for young people (some saying specifically that they were 11 or 12) asking how old I was and if they could have naked pictures of me. These were not messages they were comments that could be viewed by anyone and I eve complained about them but nothing was done, the users stayed on the site and the messages kept coming until I left the site