Riddle me this.

zCat · 10-14-2006, 11:36 PM

Alright, let me start by saying, foremost, that I am probably breaking all sorts of the forum's newbie rules by posting this thread. Also, I may get flamed to death...actually to death...for posting this. However, I would also like to point out how little I care. Ban me from the website, flame me, whatever. I don't care, because quite frankly my life doesn't revolve around the internet, and thus it especially doesn't revolve around forums. Finally, it ESPECIALLY especially doesn't revolve around some ridiculous goth forum.
But my big thing is, what exactly is it that all you goth kids are trying to prove? What do you stand for? I ask not from the standpoint of an arrogant, condescending, well-off person, but from the standpoint of someone who just really wants to know. To be sorta terse with you guys...I hate the goth way of life. I hate some of the things I hear in the music, I hate the way Goth kids dress (oh my Dear God do I hate the way Goth kids dress), and...well I dunno I just hate it.
But I am not the type of person to join a forum concerning a group of people that I, well, hate, and leave one thread that's like "goths r fags lolzzzzz kill urselfs hurhurhur" because that never helped anyone, and I don't necessarily think that every goth in the world is a fag, although geez I sincerely wish you would dress different.
No I don't want to do that. I may be a jerk, but I am a pretty smart guy too. So what exactly is it that causes all of you to wear this off-the-wall and horrendous (my personal opinion don't get all whiny) clothing? Why do you always sing about pain and suffering? What is this big fixation with slitting one's wrists (actually, I get kinda grossed out when I think about that.)? I want to know this! Because maybe, just maybe, if you have some good answers, I would stop verbally sniping Goth kids when I see them in public, and leave Goths to their own devices. On the contrary, if your answers (in my opinion, once again) suck, then my views will not change, but at least I will know that there is a good reason for me to dislike Goths. As of now, I feel bad, because I really hate Goths, but I admittedly don't really have a reason.
Answer this question, or don't. Don't give me any crap about how this is breaking three hundred "n00b" rules, though, because I joined this forum for the sole purpose of asking this question, so if you don't answer it and lock this thread then you aren't letting me down, you are letting the whole Goth community down by not offering any answers about what you stand for or any sort of justification (and don't give me the 'We don't need justification' crap...everyone needs justification) for the things you do.
Peace.

Splintered · 10-14-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

But my big thing is, what exactly is it that all you goth kids are trying to prove?

I don't speak for everyone here, nor am I neccesarily goth, but I'm not perticularily here to prove anything. As far as I'm concerned, this is an internet forum as well, and my life doesn't hang in the balance on whether I'm accepted here. I'm simply here, to learn.

Quote:

What do you stand for?

It depends on the issue. Like I said, I don't speak for everyone here. But I stand for freedom of speech, freedom of information, and all that good stuff. I also encourage self-expression, etc. Other people are different, in other things.

Quote:

I hate some of the things I hear in the music, I hate the way Goth kids dress (oh my Dear God do I hate the way Goth kids dress), and...well I dunno I just hate it.

I dislike some of the things I hear in country, and I dislike some of the ways rappers dress. It's not that big of a deal really. Some things work for some, others works for others. I personally think that the way some goths dress (Be it cybergoth, victorian goth, whatever the hell you want to call it), just looks really cool, and some of it is just purely erotic. So, that's why I would dress, or hang around with people who dress like that. Or listen to that type of music.

Quote:

I may be a jerk, but I am a pretty smart guy too. So what exactly is it that causes all of you to wear this off-the-wall and horrendous (my personal opinion don't get all whiny) clothing?

Because it looks cool? It feels comfy? It looks sexy in my opinion? I mean as I said above. I personally think that the way some goths dress (Be it cybergoth, victorian goth, whatever the hell you want to call it), just looks really cool, and some of it is just purely erotic. That's for me though. Some people, it just doesn't work for them.

Quote:

Why do you always sing about pain and suffering?

What is a good portion of this world based around? War. Disease. Poverty. Suffering. All the problems that ail our society. We're exposed to it constantly. So the question then becomes, how do you not?

Quote:

What is this big fixation with slitting one's wrists (actually, I get kinda grossed out when I think about that.)?

It's debated on whether that's actually part of Goth. Some people will say it is, others will say it isn't. I say it's not, but that's my opinion. It's only a group of people who think it's fun to do, or think it's cool. That's their opinion, and they're entitled to it.

Quote:

Because maybe, just maybe, if you have some good answers, I would stop verbally sniping Goth kids when I see them in public, and leave Goths to their own devices.

Here's the thing. For every stigma and flaw we have (Saying collectively, and once again, I'm not the official ambassador on Gothdom here. Although, that would be a cool country.), you have one to your own. You think things are wrong with them, they probably think things are wrong with you. So, sniping them endlessly, is only in it's base, harassment. I'd be me walking down the street and screaming at every conservative, because I don't perticularily like the way they run the country.

Quote:

As of now, I feel bad, because I really hate Goths, but I admittedly don't really have a reason.

When why hate them in the first place? If you walk into a place thinking you'll hate something, you'll only find things to hate. If you walk into a place thinking you'll like something, you're more likely to find things you like.

Quote:

...what you stand for or any sort of justification (and don't give me the 'We don't need justification' crap...everyone needs justification) for the things you do.

We may need justification, just not to you. Although, I hope I've given you something you can use.

Edit: As for us all dressing different. We probably all do. Even though the clothes are the same, there is still some difference. There is some story that goes behind it. As much as many people who like to disenvow, every person is unique, and different. So, you could have two people wearing the same thing, but they could mean two completely different things to them. In our society, we have enough resources, we can afford putting thought and heart into our clothes. So why not?

Cicero · 10-15-2006, 12:09 AM

zCat - I fear you may have been horribly misinformed about the gothic subculture. If this is the case I'm not surprised you regard such low feelings for it. Most of us aren't so keen on the badly-dressed wrist-slitting crowd either.

I dress the way I do because I like it, and I think it looks good - Splintered explained it very well. I look at people dressed in 'normal' modern fashions and I pity them for clothing themselves in such drab attire. *Shrugs* Just the opposite to you I suppose. It's a matter of taste and nothing more. Though I will say that there are so many different ways of 'dressing gothic' that sometimes it really does look plain idiotic. Just as some 'normal' people are hopeless with style, some goths are, too.

In terms of music, I'm curious as to what sort of 'gothic' music you've heard, because if a majority of it most definitely is not about pain and suffering. I'll just say that I sincerely hope you're not judging the subculture on bands like Slipknot and Marilyn Manson, because neither of those are remotely gothic. Perhaps check out some more traditional gothic bands like Siouxsie and the Banshees or Bauhaus. Not that I expect you to fall in love with them or anything, since gothic rock most definitely isn't a genre for everyone. Again... a matter of taste.

My justification is simply that I find the fashion, bands and literature of the subculture appealing and interesting. It inspires creativity and is far more accepting of 'weird' people than most other groups of people. I don't feel there's anything especially morbid about it, we just have a slightly different view of the world to everyone else - a view similar to the Romantic poets of the 19th century, in my opinion (other goths may not agree though!).

I'll also add that I'm glad to see you've actually posed some questions instead of flooding the board with anti-goth spew. I respect that.

Godslayer Jillian · 10-15-2006, 01:16 AM

At first, I didn't like your post, but you proved you can be quite articulate, and you do know how to get to the point reasonably.
Anyway, let's see.
In the beginning, the point of Goth was basically the same as Punk, but less agressive. Basically, where punks would anger on what they don't like, goths would mourn on what they don't like, but not on a "Woe is me" way.
On fashion. You would have to tell us what kind of "goths" you have seen. If you see a guy with terribly smeared make-up, styled as The Crow, with baggy chain pants, and/or T-shirts of bands that only scream; feel free, nay! feel encouraged to mock them.
My kind of style is Victorian (and Edwardian).
Coats, cassocks, silk shirts, vests... that's my preferred way to go.
The other "gothicky" fashion style I like is the deathrocker.

On music.
It's not about pain and suffering. Indeed, many have dark themes (I mean, come on; a kid can see that goth IS dark) like death, or solitude, but look at the difference:

- "Slit my throat, for I don't want to be a part of life. No one cares, no one listens, no one gives a..."

-"Is there really so much egoism in the world? Is there really so much self-obsession that love nolonger counts? Isn't it enough that everyone is out for themselves and no-one understands That the walls of solitude are the walls of egoism? (Fassade III, by Tilo Wolff; not entirely goth, but an example that is melancholic)

I would really reccomend for you to look for some traditional gothic music; particularly Siouxsie and the Banshees.
You will find Siouxsie's songs quite un-parallel to any presupposition you had of "gothic" music.

On cutting one's wrists:
I hate it!
I find it weak. I find any addiction weak.
I don't only hate "goths" that cut their wrists. I just don't like people that cut themselves, regardless of such a vanality as style.
But people showing off their wrists as a "dark" status symbol piss me off more than anything else. I see one and wish they had cut a little deeper.
So, no; cutting one's wrists is nowhere near goth. It's nowhere near emo either, but that term has been desecrated so long that if I said emos cut, it wouldn't be a stereotype; it would only be a generalization.

bleedingheart344 · 10-15-2006, 02:59 AM

To answer some of your questions, and ask one of my own, I stand for, and I want to make it very clear that not all of us stand for the same things. I stand for freedom of speech, protest, religion, dress, and independence. I also am quite an Individualist, it sickens me whenever I see another group all act the same way, I mean sure, we can be goth, but we cannot be sheep, and base our idea of goth from everyone else within the group.

And, I do agree with most of Jillian's stance on cutting. Note to everyone, there are the ocassional few people from any subculture that do this, it is not limited to a culture, nor is it based on the ideas of a culture, or supported by a culture. It is a release, and yes, I did feel weak when I suffered from it. I just dislike the people that do it for attention. I mean, it really is not something to be proud of.

And now for my question to you: What gothic fashion have you seen? If you have only seen what Jillian, or others have mentioned, then you have not seen true gothic fashion. I would dress victorian, I still wear all the velvet and stuff I can lay my hands on, but I do have to settle for hot topic, at the moment. But I turn bad into good by not wearing the typical mall goth fashion, but rather wearing hot topic's clothing and basing my own style off of that, rather than everyone else's. Now, with the clothing from hot topic and such, I acentuate my appearence by making my makeup look as good as possible, and wear my velvet attire proudly, just to show a better side to everyone's stance on hot topic's clothing.
As for you, zCat, although I quite disagree with your views, you did put forth your opinion well, and at least stated it intellectually, rather than other people that will just ridicule us for no reason.

Immortal_Death · 10-15-2006, 04:31 AM

Damn it, not again for me. Oh, what the hell.
Goth music isn't about pain and suffering, I assume you listened to Evanescence or Emily Autumn. Have you ever thought to Goth music as well-mannered punk music with a darker vibe to it? Didn't think so. Goth is poetic, dark (not evil or the 666 shit), calm, and gentle.

And like Splintered said, what's the big deal with gothic clothings? Does it offend you in any way? We wear for what's comfortable, I like wearing black casual clothings just because I feel comfortable in black.

So what if what you think "Most Goths are fags", are you homophobic or something? You couldn't resist living in the world full of bisexuals, homosexuals, metrosexuals and heterosexuals (leave that out). If you think we act or dress like girls, we have strong desires, it may or may not be responsible for our sexuality.

I'm not fixated to slit my wrist, I do think it's gross too. Maybe they have sensational curiousitiy, or just fucking wannabes. Stop blaming Goths for slitting wrists or cutting, there are alot of other people who slit their own wrists. Where did you get that from? A music video?

Please, get a fucking clue.

DarkHeartedDemoness · 10-15-2006, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

At first, I didn't like your post, but you proved you can be quite articulate, and you do know how to get to the point reasonably.

Merde, does that mean I ought to read it? It's so long... And conceited... And I'm so lazy.

Delicate_Torture · 10-15-2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zCat

Alright, let me start by saying, foremost, that I am probably breaking all sorts of the forum's newbie rules by posting this thread. Also, I may get flamed to death...actually to death...for posting this. However, I would also like to point out how little I care. Ban me from the website, flame me, whatever. I don't care, because quite frankly my life doesn't revolve around the internet, and thus it especially doesn't revolve around forums. Finally, it ESPECIALLY especially doesn't revolve around some ridiculous goth forum.

Have you belonged to the forum long? I can understand totally what you are saying about not caring if you are banned from the forum, but I think that the 'ridiculous' is a little unwarranted. I think that you can see from the replies that you have been getting to your post that most people on the forum and helpful and friendly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zCat

But my big thing is, what exactly is it that all you goth kids are trying to prove? What do you stand for?

Personally, I stand for honour, self-discipline and integrity. These ideals have nothing to do with me being a goth, they have to do with me being a human being. My being does not end or begin with goth. I am more than merely the sum of my individual parts and there is more to me than wearing black.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zCat

I ask not from the standpoint of an arrogant, condescending, well-off person, but from the standpoint of someone who just really wants to know. To be sorta terse with you guys...I hate the goth way of life. I hate some of the things I hear in the music, I hate the way Goth kids dress (oh my Dear God do I hate the way Goth kids dress), and...well I dunno I just hate it.

Have you had much to do with the goth way of life? Or is your only experience of it watching black wearing, wrist slashing (probably emo) kids standing sullenly on street corners? Because that has little to do with being goth and much to do with being young, feeling disenfranchised and acting immature. Do you know any mature, articulate and intelligent goths? We do exist.

You should take a look at http://www.gothic-charm-school.com/. If nothing else, I think that it might give you a laugh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zCat

But I am not the type of person to join a forum concerning a group of people that I, well, hate, and leave one thread that's like "goths r fags lolzzzzz kill urselfs hurhurhur" because that never helped anyone, and I don't necessarily think that every goth in the world is a fag, although geez I sincerely wish you would dress different. No I don't want to do that. I may be a jerk, but I am a pretty smart guy too. So what exactly is it that causes all of you to wear this off-the-wall and horrendous (my personal opinion don't get all whiny) clothing?

Just a personal thing here.. can we not do the 'fags' thing? It annoys the shit out of me.

How do you dress? Do you wear things that you find pleasing, comfortable and expressive to yourself, or do you make sure that everyone else is feeling ok with what you're wearing? I wear what I want, when I want to wear it (with the exception of my work uniform... I have to wear that and never want to, but I'd rather people puke on my uniform and not on my civvies... I'm a nurse. There is a lot of puke involved.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zCat

Why do you always sing about pain and suffering?

Fuck that. We are goth, not country and western fans.

There is a great deal of 'goth' music that you probably listen to, enjoy and don't realise that it's goth. Evanessence and Placebo is a more modern example... but depending on your age, there is Depeche Mode, The Cure, Souis and the Banshees, Joy Division. There are also different genres of music within the goth culture. A few are death metal, punk, post-punk, EBM, rock, and even a little cabaret flavour. It isn't all Bauhaus. Thank God!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zCat

What is this big fixation with slitting one's wrists (actually, I get kinda grossed out when I think about that.)?

Again, this is not so much a goth thing as an 'I-feel-like-noone-understands-me-and-I-want-attention-look-at-me-damn-it!' thing. Blame the emo-*********** kiddies.

Personally, I like a bit of blood play. This has nothing to do with being goth and everything to do with being a perverted little slut. It is a BDSM thing, not a goth thing. Once again.. I'm more than just someone in black. There are many facets to my life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zCat

I want to know this! Because maybe, just maybe, if you have some good answers, I would stop verbally sniping Goth kids when I see them in public, and leave Goths to their own devices. On the contrary, if your answers (in my opinion, once again) suck, then my views will not change, but at least I will know that there is a good reason for me to dislike Goths. As of now, I feel bad, because I really hate Goths, but I admittedly don't really have a reason.

Don't you think it is a waste of energy hating something that you can so easily avoid being part of? Why hate it when you can just ignore it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zCat

Answer this question, or don't. Don't give me any crap about how this is breaking three hundred "n00b" rules, though, because I joined this forum for the sole purpose of asking this question, so if you don't answer it and lock this thread then you aren't letting me down, you are letting the whole Goth community down by not offering any answers about what you stand for or any sort of justification (and don't give me the 'We don't need justification' crap...everyone needs justification) for the things you do.
Peace.

There is a vast difference between needing justification with in yourself for something that you do and needing to justify it to others. I don't need to justify myself to you at all. I choose to because you put together a well thought out (if a little inflammatory) post asking a real question. I'm polite and I like to answer questions.

Catch · 10-15-2006, 09:47 AM

Doesn't this thread belong in whining?

(If it last very long, I promise to contemplate writing a sincere post.)

DarkHeartedDemoness · 10-15-2006, 09:51 AM

Based on what I have read in the excerpts quoted in the above post, I have absolutely no motivation to answer this fucker's questions. Letting the whole gothic culture down, am I? No fucking way. It's cute, how this little cuntscab threatens us: If you don't answer my jackass conceited question nicely, if you don't treat me with a respect I refuse to show you, it will reflect poorly on your subculture. Well, so fucking what?! You already have a negative image of goths, an image you have admitted is unfounded and inexplicable. That denotes not only ignorance but prejudice. I have never found it necessary to explain myself to ignorant prejudiced assholes.

The bit about "verbally sniping goth kids" was interesting. It kind of proves my theory that people fear what they don't know, doesn't it?

Basically, what I'm saying is, you suck. And please go away. And also, please note that this has nothing to do with n00bishness; it has to do with the fact that you are a complete and total festering ass wound.

Delicate_Torture · 10-15-2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkHeartedDemoness

Based on what I have read in the excerpts quoted in the above post, I have absolutely no motivation to answer this fucker's questions. Letting the whole gothic culture down, am I? No fucking way. It's cute, how this little cuntscab threatens us: If you don't answer my jackass conceited question nicely, if you don't treat me with a respect I refuse to show you, it will reflect poorly on your subculture. Well, so fucking what?! You already have a negative image of goths, an image you have admitted is unfounded and inexplicable. That denotes not only ignorance but prejudice. I have never found it necessary to explain myself to ignorant prejudiced assholes.

The bit about "verbally sniping goth kids" was interesting. It kind of proves my theory that people fear what they don't know, doesn't it?

Basically, what I'm saying is, you suck. And please go away. And also, please note that this has nothing to do with n00bishness; it has to do with the fact that you are a complete and total festering ass wound.

Jesus Christ.

You make swearing a fucking artform.

I am seriously in lust right now. Heh.

zCat · 10-15-2006, 04:41 PM

Awesome. Well, I'd like to say thank you for all your answers, and clear up two things too. 1.) I did not mean "fag" in the homosexual sense; I am not a homophobe and I have met many homosexual people who I found to be very pleasant individuals. 2.) I didn't mean that you had to justify yourselves to me...yea, I am conceited, but that would be going to far. I merely wanted to know how you guys justified the lifestyle to yourselves.
Lastly, I would like to say that there was one recurring theme amongst all your responses that I agree with: I have not had a good picture of the Goth community. You are all correct; the only example of "Goth" I have seen is the obnoxious, heavily-make-up'd, in-your-face about pain and suffering and how pointless life is type. You guys all seem alright. Even the ones who responded with quite a bit of anger had some pretty righteous comments.
Anyways, A.) Thank you for all your responses, B.) Sorry if I offended any of you (which I apparently I did), and C.) Like the super-angry poster said, I will just leave Goths alone and let them live life the way they want to.
Because quite frankly, I think that's all you guys want anyway.
Thank you for being intelligent in your responses. I wish you all well.

Delicate_Torture · 10-15-2006, 05:16 PM

Well, now that we've gotten rid of the nooB.. anyone for vodka and wrist slashing?

BlackButterfly · 10-15-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delicate_Torture

Jesus Christ.

You make swearing a fucking artform.

I am seriously in lust right now. Heh.

Agreed. My swearing aspires to evolve to the level of hers, that I may spontaneously spew such colorful terms as "cuntscab" and "festering ass wound"...

bleedingheart344 · 10-16-2006, 01:58 AM

Note to anyone else that has questions or makes posts like zCat, we are not a zoo exhibit, we are people too, just people that wear black, makeup, and listen to different music. We still feel emotions, just emotions more complex than people like zCat can comprehend. And, although no one whatsoever realizes this, we are intelligent. Just last week, I was hanging out with a couple of gothic friends, and some chick's younger sister was there, and the little sister is our age. So, she comes up to us, since one of my friends is good friends with this girl's little sister, he just has his arm around her. This was just a friendly thing, because said friend has a gf already. So, her older sister comes up to us, screams at my friend to take his hands off of her, and calls us gothic trash. I am up in her face, telling her how fucking wrong she is, and she's too afraid of me to even listen. And, my friend's entire math and choir classes are afraid of me and talk shit about me all the time.

Born Again · 10-16-2006, 02:16 AM

Was this on Jerry Springer? I think I missed that episode.

Show them bitches who's boss.

*Je-rry* *Je-rry* *Je-rry*

natharliak · 10-16-2006, 04:32 AM

why bag people out when you have no reson.....cause maby he is a prick and im up for vodka.......he needs to
/-----------------\
_/ \_ buid a bridge and get over it, it was a one way depate people ''GOTHS'' just do stuff cause they can cause they feel like it end of story...

Slap Your Love · 10-16-2006, 05:06 AM

It seems I see a thread just like this by a different noob each week am I right? o.O

Delicate_Torture · 10-16-2006, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natharliak

why bag people out when you have no reson.....cause maby he is a prick and im up for vodka.......he needs to
/-----------------\
_/ \_ buid a bridge and get over it, it was a one way depate people ''GOTHS'' just do stuff cause they can cause they feel like it end of story...

Ok.. once again, please. But this time in English?

zCat · 10-16-2006, 10:18 PM

Nah. I was being nerdy and reading WAY too far into all of this. It seems to me like this Goth world's main claim is that its members are different due to a desire for personal expression and acceptance, yet there are still idiots who would say something like "just emotions too complex for zCat to feel." That's a horribly presumptuous thing to say; in my original post (which yes, I get it by now, I'm conceited, hooray, what's new.) I never said anything like "You goths are just stupid" or "You can't feel anything but pain," which would have been equally presumptuous. And someone I've never even met before can freak out and call me a "cuntscab" because I DARED to come onto this forum and ask a few questions. I don't want anyone to justify themselves to me, or to singlehandedly represent their entire culture to me, I just wanted some answers to questions that I have, in the past, found I could not get straight answers for. And yea, like I said, you guys just seem like people who have their own agendas and wish to be left alone. And I was fine with that, right up until the point that I started thinking about some of the things that were said, and then the "emotions too complex for zCat to feel." Quite frankly: bitch please. Do you think you are the super awesome Gothic Lord of Feelings that No One Else Feels? I know exactly what it is like to be in love; real love, beating-your-fists-against-the-wall-and-screaming-because-you-just-want-to-be-with-her love. I know what it is like to hate someone so hard that your entire being burns and you just want to burn out in hatred of that person and fall asleep from exhaustion. I know what it is like to be so utterly happy that you cry, and I know what it is like to be so filled with sorrow that you cry.
And I know what it is like to be curious and have questions. You all answered them in your own way, which is cool, because that DOES prove that this is a group full of very different and unique people.
But I think the problem is that some of you are so freaked out about being a part of this culture that's based on differences, that you completely ignore the similarities between all people. And I am talking good similarities, not the kind of similarities that can blur individuals and make them lose their uniqueness. Here's the reality of it: your group is just like any other. You have a basic set of ideas that make up gothic-ness (whatever that may be...although I asked, no one really felt the need to explain it to me), and there are many different types of people in this group. There are jerks in it too, just like there are jerks in other groups. And I don't think you are zoo animals...geez. I think you are people that I want to know more about. And I still do, but apparently I can't ask any questions without fearing for my anal virginity.
I have never, honestly, openly made fun of a goth person to their face. I dislike the clothes, like I said, and a lot of the music, but I have never said "You suck," like one of the posters felt the need to say to me.
You get mad because people judge you from what you wear, listen to, and read? Well here's the reality of it: you all just judged me from one thread on the internet. So then maybe you should take everything you said to me, and think about how you'd feel if someone said it to you.
And if everyone in the world, myself included, would think about that, regardless of whatever FUCKING lifestyle they choose, then maybe people like me and you wouldn't question each other so much in the first place.
Forget it. I am soooo very freaking sorry that I had the gusto to ask some questions.

Delicate_Torture · 10-16-2006, 10:41 PM

In the same way that you are asking us not to judge you based on the past experiences that we've had a thousand times before with people 'asking' what we are about in an effort to label, define and corner us please don't label all of us in the light of the negative responses that you recieved.

Most of the responses that you recieved were polite and helpful. Those that weren't are exercising their percieved right to post what they want to post.

angel011 · 10-17-2006, 12:38 AM

Quote:

You have a basic set of ideas that make up gothic-ness (whatever that may be...although I asked, no one really felt the need to explain it to me)

Read this: https://www.gothic.net/boards/showthread.php?t=630

bleedingheart344 · 10-17-2006, 02:46 AM

I was actually being sarcastic about the complex emotions thing zCat, but okay.
Although, I feel that a lot of people got pissed because we are tired of getting questions like this, and having to explain what goth is to people. Although, do not get me wrong, like I said before, you stated your question with intellect, and I respect that. I have one question that no one asked. Why did you want to know in the first place?

Godslayer Jillian · 10-17-2006, 03:57 PM

On a side note, we don't complain about how people see us.
We might care, some might not like it, but complaining is stupid. If one cannot cope with the looks of dressing like this, why the fuck would he keep dressing as so?

Delkaetre · 10-17-2006, 05:09 PM

I don't complain about how people see me unless they choose to bitch to me about it, verbally or physically assaultme over it, etc. if they don't like my particular style of G*th, then they can do as I do- offer a condescending glance and go back to their coffee.
I think, bleedingheart, that zCat DID say why. z wanted to know more about us- try to understand how we think, what we're really like, and why we do what we do. This shows a good, willing spirit.
This effect was rather spoiled by zCat's initial insults (ridiculous? How do you expect a serious reaction when you call our forum that?), reaction to the cruder replies (SOOO fucking sorry. Hmm, charming sarcasm), and the cruder replies themselves (no need to call someone a festering asswound when they're just a litte ignorant), which put rather a poor light on goth in general.