MIT "bomb hoax" blown out of proportion?

Rizash · 09-25-2007, 10:56 PM

Another example of the news media not telling the entire story.....

http://sluggabohn.wordpress.com/2007...mb-at-airport/

So some geek from MIT went to the airport to pick up her boyfriend.... It was some career day or whatever and she had an LED board strapped to her with a flashing star on it.... Her sweatshirt also had lettering saying Course VII and Socket to me.... (thats as I've read anyway) *EVERY* major news media source is calling it a "HOAX BOMB" and I'm more than a bit annoyed.

Now I'm not sure what to think because I think she wanted the attention.... But calling this thing a bomb is JUST as bad as the mooninites thing from Boston.... I mean hell, its a prototyping board with LEDs in the shape of a star and a 9V battery on it..... Yes they did the right thing, fine.... But any officer who said "if she would have moved or hesitated she'd be dead" or ANYTHING to that effect should be fired ON THE SPOT. They SHOULD NOT be allowed to posess a firearm, PERIOD. Also... the charges are mind boggling (just as they were in the boston event). What ever happened to disturbing the peace?

At first I really wanted to defend her when all the reports were saying the sweatshirt had flashing LED text etc.... and thats all it was.... When I saw it was pretty much a prototyping board with LEDs and a 9V taped to the shirt I just got annoyed at her.... BUT.

I still have to say they're blowing this way out of proportion.... I know two types of people that this type of crap does not bode well for.

Technofet/ANYONE with flashy tattoos... I know people with tattoos that look like wiring/circuitry..... Are they going to be shot if they fly because of their choice in appearance?

I've also known two people that had cochlear implants.... For those that dont know these devices are an implant that goes into the inner ear and basically restores *some* primative hearing to people who have never heard/have lost their hearing due to damage to the outter ear.... This implant actually leaves people with a plug for what looks just like an earphone jack on the side of their head.... The wire from that plug goes to a box that picks up and amplifies the sound to be sent into the implant.... Think about devices like those "whisper 2000" type volume amplification boxes hearing impaired people use in churches, etc.... So if someone has something like that on them are they going to get held up at gunpoint?

C'mon this stuff has gone far enough. If something LOOKS like a bomb stop them.... If it looks like an IDIOT who obviously left their common sense in the parking lot.... Ask them to leave and warn them to not be so stupid.... Over reactions to stuff like this is the reason we have laws restricting EVERYTHING these days.

Rizash · 09-25-2007, 11:01 PM

Leave it to me to be the first to reply to my own post.... (thanks to the no edit thingy)

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/21...-arrested.html

Has more info.... appearantly that was the sweatshirt she wore all around campus so maybe it wasnt a hoax.... Hrm.... now I feel bad for her again.... *pouts*

Drake Dun · 09-25-2007, 11:55 PM

Powertripping fuckwads. Give a guy a uniform and a gun, and he's dangerous enough. Plop him down in a country which has been intentionally whipped into a state of paranoia and moralistic fervor, and he's a deadly threat.

Dropping the charges is not enough. They owe her a profuse apology, and yeah, maybe somebody should get fired.

Drake

Rizash · 09-26-2007, 01:42 AM

Well I'm a bit freaked about this story.... I have a bit of a paranoia of being persecuted.... And whenever I go ANYWHERE I'm listening to music with noise canceling earbuds.... So chances are if I had something on me that they thought was threatening (I have ram for keychains usually 2 MP3 players on me, my phone, headphones, sometimes a PDA, maybe a portable game system, etc...) and was walking away OUTSIDE the airport like she was I'm 99% sure I wouldnt notice anyone was talking to me.... I think that airport should be shut down until they fix their issues... its that bad

CptSternn · 09-26-2007, 02:04 AM

It's not just an over -zealous police force thats at fault - you have a government that helping these stories along trying to keep people in fear of the boogeyman.

Stories like this keep bombs in the forefront of the news, and fresh on the brains of the American people. It's easier to lie to the masses if they are constantly in fear and think they need you for protection.

ShadowCrow · 09-26-2007, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Stories like this keep bombs in the forefront of the news, and fresh on the brains of the American people. It's easier to lie to the masses if they are constantly in fear and think they need you for protection.

Amen to that. How very, very true.

Besides my fulltime job, I do some securitywork. They overreacted. Period. If they can't separate a LED-display student-project from a bomb, they need to attend more classes in IEDs. Numbnuts the lot of them...

delicti · 09-26-2007, 06:00 AM

Well, that's Boston for you. I can sympathize with the girl, but given the city's prior history of over-reacting to these types of things, it could've crossed her mind to wear something else.

MaguMan · 09-27-2007, 05:28 PM

*clears throat*

OK, since I saw no mention of this, I'll go ahead and add to the story the fact that this girl was holding a clump of playdough.

I realize most posters on this thread are pretty unfamiliar with IED's and their components, but this is black and white stupid. On the off chance that people do know about IEDs, here's a picture of what she was walking around with:

http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/ar...ough+bomb+hoax

So she has a bunch of loose wires connected to a nine volt and a large clump of unidentified organic mass, and she should be allowed to walk around? People that walk into airports smuggling IEDs and suicide belts do so with some kind of intelligence in hiding this shit. The Israelis still catch them. This fucking retard walks into an airport with look-a-like IED components that have been used in real bombs and people want to shed tears for her?

I work in counter-terrorism and much of my job deals with identification of these devices and folks, this shit isn't a joke and it's not art. What she walked in with could have been wired to detonate Semtex plastic explosives if she had one more component. Police and security officers don't really give a shit if you have one or all of the components to detonate an IED. If you have the explosive materials or something that looks like them in conjunction with wiring and a battery; no.

This was just stupid and she was lucky as a mother fucker that she cooperated exactly with what airport police told her to do. Otherwise she would have been shot and it would have been completely and utterly justified.

It's just like people who pour sympathy into the goofball that got up on a plane and told everyone he was going to blow them all up, then grabbed his bag and started running and was shot by an air marshall. His actions were protocol and in the event that someone really did have a bomb in their bag, well... there's only one way to find that out and it's ugly.

Terrorism isn't a joke. IED look-a-likes aren't artwork. You play with armed authorties and purposely push the boundries, you're playing a dangerous game with your life.

This girl is VERY lucky to be alive.

Breathless Horror · 09-27-2007, 05:34 PM

Is a 9v battery really enough to set off Semtex?. I have fairly little knowledge in demolitions, but if it HAD been Semtex, that would have been a very big bang wouldn't it?

MaguMan · 09-27-2007, 05:50 PM

The 9 volt doesn't directly detonate the Semtex. I'm not going to go into details about how to construct an IED or detonate one, but yes, it is enough to power the device that triggers the whole explosion. It's one of the most common batteries used for homemade IEDs too.

thedoll · 09-27-2007, 07:36 PM

I agree with magu, sure they falsely accused somebody of having a hoax but what if she were strapped and nobody did anything? We would all be sitting here discussing how dumb the security guards were for not noticing something that obvious.

Drake Dun · 09-27-2007, 09:00 PM

Hmm. Now I'm not sure what to believe. Looking back to the previous articles, there was mention (that I missed) of putty possibly being somewhere in the picture, either on her sweater or in her hands. And the fact (if fact it be) that she was *asked* about the device, and reacted by walking away without answering, makes a gigantic difference.

Assuming that those are the actual facts, I don't think the authorities were out of line. I was picturing this girl walking into an airport, and suddenly, without warning, a bunch of guns are in her face.

Drake

Rizash · 09-28-2007, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaguMan

*clears throat*

OK, since I saw no mention of this, I'll go ahead and add to the story the fact that this girl was holding a clump of playdough.

I realize most posters on this thread are pretty unfamiliar with IED's and their components, but this is black and white stupid. On the off chance that people do know about IEDs, here's a picture of what she was walking around with:

http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/ar...ough+bomb+hoax

So she has a bunch of loose wires connected to a nine volt and a large clump of unidentified organic mass, and she should be allowed to walk around? People that walk into airports smuggling IEDs and suicide belts do so with some kind of intelligence in hiding this shit. The Israelis still catch them. This fucking retard walks into an airport with look-a-like IED components that have been used in real bombs and people want to shed tears for her?

I work in counter-terrorism and much of my job deals with identification of these devices and folks, this shit isn't a joke and it's not art. What she walked in with could have been wired to detonate Semtex plastic explosives if she had one more component. Police and security officers don't really give a shit if you have one or all of the components to detonate an IED. If you have the explosive materials or something that looks like them in conjunction with wiring and a battery; no.

This was just stupid and she was lucky as a mother fucker that she cooperated exactly with what airport police told her to do. Otherwise she would have been shot and it would have been completely and utterly justified.

It's just like people who pour sympathy into the goofball that got up on a plane and told everyone he was going to blow them all up, then grabbed his bag and started running and was shot by an air marshall. His actions were protocol and in the event that someone really did have a bomb in their bag, well... there's only one way to find that out and it's ugly.

Terrorism isn't a joke. IED look-a-likes aren't artwork. You play with armed authorties and purposely push the boundries, you're playing a dangerous game with your life.

This girl is VERY lucky to be alive.

*clears throat*

*beats quoted person over the head with a nerf bat in hopes to get him to lighten up*

*ALL* of the major news agencies retracted the play-doh bit.... it was actually putty she had used to hold the LEDs and diodes in place on the prototyping board.

You DO NOT need any of those components to set off a bomb, nor does it look like a bomb....

C4, semtex, etc... need a det. cap or blasting cap to be set off.... They dont require electronics....

Its not like she made this up to get thrown out of the airport.... She had worn this DOZENS of times.... AROUND THE CITY.... on the subway, on busses, around campus, TO CLASSES.....

She was OUTSIDE the airport when she was harassed.... she NEVER went *NEAR* a secured area.... She walked in, asked a question... was asked what she had around her neck.... she didnt hear the question, asked for them to repeat the question... and she responded to the question by answering "oh, its art"

I'm sorry but in a country where our border agents are being shot at ... and ARRESTED and CONVICTED when they fire back.... we cant put up with crap like this.... Its JUST as bad as the question blocks incient or the Ignigknock incident (sp?) The MOONINITES incident if you dont recall....

She had NO bomb elements on her.... no bomb LOOKING/making elements on her.... she was not in an airport....

Rizash · 09-28-2007, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

Hmm. Now I'm not sure what to believe. Looking back to the previous articles, there was mention (that I missed) of putty possibly being somewhere in the picture, either on her sweater or in her hands. And the fact (if fact it be) that she was *asked* about the device, and reacted by walking away without answering, makes a gigantic difference.

Assuming that those are the actual facts, I don't think the authorities were out of line. I was picturing this girl walking into an airport, and suddenly, without warning, a bunch of guns are in her face.

Drake

Actual facts (this took time to get because news agencies jumped the gun and had to RETRACT the putty bits (she had clay on the prototyping board to hold stuff in place) and the FAILED to respond when asked about the device... (she DID reply, but she didnt hear the question the first time so asked for the desk person to repeat the question... she then replied "oh, its art") )

Run down of what happend.... Clueless senseless MIT college student walks into an airport with her favorite hoodie.... She wears it all the time.... She's there to pick up her BF from his flight....

She asks the desk attendant what time the flight gets in... the desk person tells her it had already arrived... then asks her what that is on her shirt. She didnt hear the question so she asked to have it repeated... she repied "oh, its art" then paces around a bit trying to decide what to do about the fact she missed her BF.

A few minutes (yes several minutes) later she leaves the airport, is supposidly waiting for a taxi and is jumped by 5 guys with silenced SMGs.....

It took a few days for the news media to come clean with the facts.... But there was no putty in her hands and she DID reply when asked what it was.... She was OUT of the airport when arrested.... She *NEVER* went near a secured area!! And they're just covering for one dumbass employee who was just looking to stir up trouble....

For the love of god I'm a geek and I'm terrified to go through airport security as it is now, but after seeing someone almost shot and facing nonsense charges from something that was OBVIOUSLY harmless and in plain sight I'm not sure I even want to try to get a cell phone through security ever again. EVERY time I go through airport security I get my stuff searched through (check and carry on baggage) for no reason. I dont care if they search it, I'm TERRIFIED about this happening to me. I dont want to end up dead because someone goes on a power trip and I dont hear them when they mumble or something....

Lets face it this kind of crap has to end. There is NO reason for this person to end up in jail.... She made a mistake ANYONE could make if you concider how many portable electronic devices are out there. Becides, how many times have people accidentally walked into secured areas and caused MAJOR evacuations etc.... Did they ever have guns drawn? I've read about them being arrested, but never by 5 guys with SMGs.... If people are going to bomb airports they're not going to go through security.... Moreover they wont even BOMB airports to kill people. If they're trying to kill as many as they can it'll be at a more populated area....

Enough with the stupid pissing contest and scare tactics. I want my freedom back and terrorists had nothing to do with stealing it.... I want security MORE than anyone, but if NO-ONE trusts the security people what good do they do?

PS: I'm the type of person that thanks the TSA people (and law enforcement officers, and firefighters, etc.) every time I see them. I'm the type of person that puts all his electronics in a plastic ziploc bag, takes it out of his carryon bag and puts it in a seperate tray so they dont have to open my stuff and search it (they do anyway) these are some of the hardest working people around and they do this country a great service....

I'm not mad at THEM. I'm not mad at HER for her epic lack of judgement. I'm mad at the SYSTEM for abusing someone who is already embarassed and has already faced more punishment (near death) than she deserved.... I'm mad at the system for charging her KNOWING she'll get off without being convicted (no basis for a hoax charge since it wasnt meant to scare people or look like a bomb) why waste our tax dollars to humiliate the poor girl?

CptSternn · 09-28-2007, 05:18 AM

Breathless -

A 9 volt battery will not set off Semtex. It will however set off a blasting cap which in turn will set off the Semtex.

That being said unlike the movies, bombs don't having red LED's or flashing lights on them.

If you making a stealth device to bring with you through security, you don't leave shitloads of wires hanging out and flashing lights all over it.

Aside from the fact you would have to wire up all those lights to yet another battery or power source, which would have no impact on the bomb and would be a waste of time and needed space.

It always makes me chuckle on CSI and those shows when they find a car bomb - and its under a car, wires hanging out everywhere, making beeping noises with big red feckin LED lights flashing all over it.

Sort like when people get shot in action movies and they fly back like 10 feet into a glass window when hit (which shatters). Yeah, none of that crap happens in real life.

Drake Dun · 09-28-2007, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizash

...news agencies jumped the gun and had to RETRACT the putty bits... she DID reply, but she didnt hear the question the first time so asked for the desk person to repeat the question... she then replied "oh, its art"...

See, now I don't know what to think again. I guess the moral of the story is that you can't really make solid judgments on these things based on the sorry-ass "facts" you get from the media.

Drake

Cyntrox · 09-28-2007, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaguMan

it's not art.

Fuck you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizash

C4, semtex, etc... need a det. cap or blasting cap to be set off.... They dont require electronics....

I don't know about semtex, but C4 can be detonated with electricity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

That being said unlike the movies, bombs don't having red LED's or flashing lights on them.

If you making a stealth device to bring with you through security, you don't leave shitloads of wires hanging out and flashing lights all over it.

Aside from the fact you would have to wire up all those lights to yet another battery or power source, which would have no impact on the bomb and would be a waste of time and needed space.

It always makes me chuckle on CSI and those shows when they find a car bomb - and its under a car, wires hanging out everywhere, making beeping noises with big red feckin LED lights flashing all over it.

Sort like when people get shot in action movies and they fly back like 10 feet into a glass window when hit (which shatters). Yeah, none of that crap happens in real life.

Quoted for truth

Cyntrox · 09-28-2007, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyntrox

I don't know about semtex, but C4 can be detonated with electricity.

Damned 5 minutes limit!

It seems I was wrong, sorry. It needs a detonator or blasting cap. Of course, those may be detonated electronically.

MaguMan · 09-28-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizash

*clears throat*

*beats quoted person over the head with a nerf bat in hopes to get him to lighten up*

*ALL* of the major news agencies retracted the play-doh bit.... it was actually putty she had used to hold the LEDs and diodes in place on the prototyping board.

Quote:

You DO NOT need any of those components to set off a bomb, nor does it look like a bomb....

C4, semtex, etc... need a det. cap or blasting cap to be set off.... They dont require electronics....

What do you think electronic detonators work off of? Flower power? You need electricity (i.e. a power source) and unless you're a suicide bomber, a switch or timer (i.e. a watch, radio components, or any electronic device used to close a circuit).

Most folks hellbent on seriously blowing something up don't use a ignition fuse. Most of the successful IEDs that have gone off and caused destruction and mayhem (especially targeting aviation) have all had multiple components. The one used to take down several planes by Libya in the late 1980s consisted of timed IEDs that worked with the components of a portable radio.

Ted Kaczynski's mail-bombs/pipe bombs worked off of batteries and wiring. Suicide belts worn by Chechen Black Widows work off of these principles as well as IEDs in Iraq and hundreds of other places around the world.

So yeah, you can set off a bomb without many of those components, but most sophisticated terrorists employ those extra bits in order to be a.) more efficient, since fuses can take a long ass time to burn as opposed to an instantaneous electrical surge, and b.) they usually don't like to be around when these things go off, so remote detonation is a plus.

Ramzi Yousef can tell you all about that.

Quote:

Its not like she made this up to get thrown out of the airport.... She had worn this DOZENS of times.... AROUND THE CITY.... on the subway, on busses, around campus, TO CLASSES.....

I'm sure I could walk around with one of those plaques that has the grenade and says, "Complaint department, take a number," and get quite a few laughs on the bus and a subway. Take it to an airport and see what the reaction is like.

Better yet, here's a fun test for you. Tear into your laptop and have a bunch of exposed wires hanging out a hole you made in it of or any other electronic appliance that runs off batteries. Go through an airport checkpoint and see if it's a big deal. They'll spot it and you'll be playing twenty questions with airport police, guaranteed.

Quote:

She was OUTSIDE the airport when she was harassed.... she NEVER went *NEAR* a secured area.... She walked in, asked a question... was asked what she had around her neck.... she didnt hear the question, asked for them to repeat the question... and she responded to the question by answering "oh, its art"

So I can walk around curbside with a squirt gun painted black and I should totally not be "harassed" by anyone? "Oh, it's part of my Halloween costume." Yeah. Common sense says that situation should be investigated, especially with what look like obvious IED components strapped onto clothing while it's being reported that folks are doing "dry-runs" through airports to test security measures.

Quote:

She had NO bomb elements on her.... no bomb LOOKING/making elements on her.... she was not in an airport....

I look at IED components daily, both assembled and unassembled. Here's a great example of what one looks like:

http://fusion94.org/images/missed_call.jpg

MaguMan · 09-28-2007, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizash

*ALL* of the major news agencies retracted the play-doh bit.... it was actually putty she had used to hold the LEDs and diodes in place on the prototyping board.

I can only assume you can find the retractions, since they all made them? I wouldn't normally ask, but I'm having a tough time finding any retractions by any of the media outlets.

Rizash · 09-29-2007, 01:53 AM

MaguMan Pick a media source and look it up.... MOST of them now say "allegidly" had play-dough and most of them corrected the fact that she did talk to the booth person....

Its frustrating that the news media is getting its info from tabloids that jumped the gun.....

MaguMan · 09-29-2007, 06:38 AM

Obviously there's a major difference between retractions and the use of open-ended allegations regarding what Airport Police told the Associated Press.

This is a typical retraction:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...etraction.html

No news outlet that I can find has printed anything like a formal retraction of erroneous information that may have been in one of their articles.

Now, here are a few articles which covered the story by prominent news organizations that don't feature open-ended adverbs to describe what she had (as you contend):

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...u3KXghmCB32tCw
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15012105/
http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=1253822&nid=104
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/N...188245,00.html

And it seems like the MIT website has made the biggest misprint if this is all untrue, as it reported on Major Scott Pare of the State Police announcing at a press conference that Star Simpson had approximately 5-6 ounces of Play-Doh in her hands. Simpson's own attorney, Tom Dwyer, said she had it molded in the shape of a rose that she was going to give to her boyfriend.

That information can be found here, printed and posted on September 25th:

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N41/simpson.html

Rizash · 09-30-2007, 03:12 AM

Weird.... And I still say anyone who continued to hold a gun to her after seeing her should be examined and never allowed to hold a gun again.... Freaking putty and some electronics? I can understand them being called to investigate but once it was clear it was all just a misunderstanding why not just drop it?

Is it going to take a death before people realize that this is WORSE than terrorism.... I'd rather die to a terrorist than have someone die because some trigger happy cop or some under-trained walkie-talkie junkie thinks my Ipod is a gun....

There have been people in this state shot over CLEAR PLASTIC guns.... People shot over CELL PHONES.... People shot over AIRSOFT guns.... This stuff will EVENTUALLY happen over an Ipod, or something like that.... How long are we going to stand for this crap?

Sorry but if I'm going to die to a terrorist I'm going to try to take him out.... If I'm going to die to a cop then my way of life is lost to this world for no reason.....

CptSternn · 09-30-2007, 07:33 AM

Of course they are going to put this out in the media. It helps build up more hype, plus the government can count it as an 'incident' when they refer to terrorism statistics.

Riz -

Whats worse than dying for a stupid reason like being shot by an untrained, trigger happy police force?

Living under a regime such as that your whole life is put under a microscope and everyone is treated like a criminal in the name of 'freedom'.

Rizash · 10-01-2007, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Of course they are going to put this out in the media. It helps build up more hype, plus the government can count it as an 'incident' when they refer to terrorism statistics.

Riz -

Whats worse than dying for a stupid reason like being shot by an untrained, trigger happy police force?

Living under a regime such as that your whole life is put under a microscope and everyone is treated like a criminal in the name of 'freedom'.

You mean like we live now? All someone has to do is point a finger and say you did something -- even without evidence -- and you go straight to jail.

If you do something just out of a lapse of judgement or something you KNOW is innocent but people somehow misunderstand -- you go straight to jail.

This country is so afraid of admitting mistakes.... Why? LAWSUITS. If they admit they screwed up they are at risk of being sued -- as they should be in something this extremely stupid! But since they decided to press charges they cannot be sued.... Its the systems ultimate defense.

I'm sick of living in an opressive society where news media is filtered and watered down.... I'm sick of people being ignored when they do something important or something that benefits mankind because some NOBODY who never hurt anyone gets harassed and the media takes the side of big brother.

I'm afraid we've become a big brother state and its only going to get worse.... I support law enforcement more than anyone. I support our justice system more than anyone... thats why I *MUST* object to such stupidd moves as arresting someone for something they DIDNT do (they didnt have a hoax bomb -- defined as a device meant to make people THINK you have a bomb) this society needs to learn to admit when it screws up.... That will end ALL of this endless nonsense you see in the media.

Again if this woman had died who would have been at fault? The courts would say HER.... But if she had been listening to music she might not have heard them.... I say we need to take two steps back and just let people live their lives.

If freedom were everywhere people who commit terrorist acts would no longer find the need to do such things (aside from the mentally unstable or those conned into following mankinds idiotic ideas of religion to the extreme). There will always be a need for security... but we need freedom to defend first. I'm beginning to think we've already lost that freedom.