Would you say I was this..

[Chazz]

Well I just read that other topic and read this..





Spooky kids, Kindergoths, Mansonites, Mallgoths...these pre-teen or early-teen types are known by many names, most of which are derogatory. They are often regarded with scorn and contempt by older members of the Goth community. Their crimes? Generally, not being old enough to remember the 80s, not being rich enough to afford a “proper Goth” wardrobe, and not being wise enough to know the “right” music to listen to or the “right” amount of make-up to wear.

It is true that, while Baby Bats often consider themselves “Goth,” they show quite a number of differences from members of the original scene; they tend to show a preference for metal (Marylin Manson and HIM being typical “Baby Bat” music), wear clothes that reflect metal/skater fashion, and tend to go for a “shocking” rather than “aesthetic” appearance.

As the older Goths are painfully aware, the media also considers these kids to be “Goth.” While this can be annoying for Goths who do not want to be associated with the Baby Bats (particularly the ones who are in it for shock value), one must remember that it was the media in the first place who popularised the term “Goth” to decribe the original music scene. So how we define what is and what is not Goth is very difficult these days.

Very frequently, Baby Bats will start to grow more “sophisticated” in their clothes and music tastes, and become some of the most passionate members of the Goth community. For this reason too, they are to be respected, not shunned.






And it made me think.. Do you think I am one? Heres a short description of me..

I actually can afford a good gothic wardrobe.

I do not like Marilyn manson, I think he is a cunt, and I don't really liek HIM.. Only if im drunk or so tired I can't think straight.

I was brought up with a dad who was all for the 80's so I know a lot of the decade. Although I hate him more than words can describe and he is now dead..

I do not say that I am goth, but I do slightly consider myself goth..

I barely ever wear make up, and if I do, it is two slight line down the end of each eye only around 1 cm and some white makeup if im feeling like it.

I used to skate but I do not dress in a skater style.. I do wear jeans and just a black shirt and wristbands, when I'm in the more country parts of my town, as my cool stuff has chav attracting effects, but if im not in my town I will wear it anywhere else I want..

So trench coat, band T shirt, plain black trousers and a pair of new rock boots.

I wear rings, and a spiked bracelet which you can't really see as it is hidden by my trench coat. I also wear a pretty cool necklace which is nothing huge but it's a small cross with a strange bent fashion with a black gem in the centre.

Well that about sums up *me*

I forgot to add that I am 13 and have been at this for around 2-3 years.. He..

Anyway. Some responces would be nice as after reading that and recieving some minor critisism from some ass holes in my school it would be great to get a response..

I also wanted to know if you think that wearing black lipstick is a bad idea because I have once or twice but thats it.. Anyway.. Thanks for reading all that and thanks again for your responces.

[KontanKarite]

Wait...

Stop. You don't need us to justify your existence. Do you not like HIM and Manson because you're not supposed to, or because they really just don't appeal to you?

Just stop right now, man. You'll be fine. No one is born goth.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Wait...

Stop. You don't need us to justify your existence. Do you not like HIM and Manson because you're not supposed to, or because they really just don't appeal to you?

Just stop right now, man. You'll be fine. No one is born goth.

I don't like em because manson has no talent and him really bores me..

Reason I posted this is because I get loads of comments like im a wanabee and stuff like that, and it made me think, but I maybe shouldn't bother.

[KontanKarite]

Dude, do what you want. EVERYONE is going to think you're a wannabe somewhere at sometime. You're not going to please everyone.

If it means anything at all to you, for every one person out there that would call you a wannabe, about 3 others would call you a goth. So seriously... what does it mean in the end? Nothing. Do it yourself and just be you. Don't sweat it. You like what you like. Not because you're a goth, but because you are you.

[korinna5555]

*agrees with Kontan*

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Dude, do what you want. EVERYONE is going to think you're a wannabe somewhere at sometime. You're not going to please everyone.

If it means anything at all to you, for every one person out there that would call you a wannabe, about 3 others would call you a goth. So seriously... what does it mean in the end? Nothing. Do it yourself and just be you. Don't sweat it. You like what you like. Not because you're a goth, but because you are you.

ye i understand

but this happens on a daily basis and a lot of people do it

thanks

wii post

[Broadwaypoetez]

You're like an Elder. In chillens form.

Honestly, if you think you are Goth, I'm sure you are. You know the music, appreciate the fashion, and when older, you can meet more people like you. (You can get into clubs and hang out with fellow goths at 16 in England?)

Trust me, you're good.

[Green.Lady]

Read my signature and you will know all.

To be honest, you don't know any influential gothic bands. You don't [have] to like Bauhaus, but you need to know who Bauhaus are. You must research goth and love the music before beginning to consider yourself a member of our subculture. Reading your posts, you do have the mallgothy attitude and an air of wanting to be goth just to be a "nonconformist," which is common in people of your age.

I'm not calling you a poseur. You don't think Manson is King, and you at least sort of understand what we're about. You're a babygoth, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. In a short while, after being exposed to the culture on this site, you might grow to love Peter and Siouxsie, but, then again, you might find out that you're just not compatible with that sort of thing. You might fall in love with deathrock, gothic metal, ebm, industrial, or another subgenre. You just need to know these things:

-very few people can pull off black lips
-white face paint is ALWAYS bad, use a natural-looking ivory powder
-music comes before fashion
-calling yourself a goth when you know nothing about the history will get the shit kicked out of you

Done.

Now go download some Sisters of Mercy.

[DepthsofSpace]

Green.Lady speaks truth when it comes to music.

I consider myself a Baby Bat in many ways. I knew the music, though, for a while. Though since comming here I have discovered the genius of the early days of Goth Rock [SoM & SatB FTW! =) ].

Music is very important to the culture, and fashion I have learned if just an extention of who you are. It's sort of a gray area from what I have seen, but stick around. You're 13, you can write decently, and you seem willing to learn.

May you have a long, dark life and since I haven't said it before, welcome to the forums!

[L'Oiseau Noir]

Hey, who cares what they say, or what we think?

I mean, it's one thing if you're going around saying you're Gothic when you don't even listen (or know about) some of the staple bands like Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, etc. etc. Not that I'm saying you can't enjoy other bands (I'm a sucker for powerpop, electro, symphonic metal, and so on) because you can. Also, the things Green Lady said before me are very good pieces of advice and information.

As long as you're not one of those trench-coat-wearing-kids (don't get me wrong, I love trench coats) that go around and swear Manson is the Goth King, and Slipknot or Korn is Gothic, it's all good. But it would help if you gained a background knowledge on the subculture, too.

Anyway, point is, who fucking cares what people think or say about you. I've been called a poseur several times and it doesn't bug me. They can think what they'd like: what's important is that I know I'm not, and that I'm confident with who I am and what I like. I don't have to justify my love for Aqua or Gorillaz to some other "Goth," just as you don't have to justify yourself and the things you like to anyone.

Let them keep wagging their tongues, because eventually they're going to get them cut off.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by Chazz

<original post -- snipped due to length>

Simply put, if you don't think that that's you, then it probably isn't.

But seriously, you see a website that uses cutesy imagery, and you take it completely seriously?

[Green.Lady]

Originally Posted by L'Oiseau Noir

Hey, who cares what they say, or what we think?

I mean, it's one thing if you're going around saying you're Gothic when you don't even listen (or know about) some of the staple bands like Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, etc. etc. Not that I'm saying you can't enjoy other bands (I'm a sucker for powerpop, electro, symphonic metal, and so on) because you can. Also, the things Green Lady said before me are very good pieces of advice and information.

As long as you're not one of those trench-coat-wearing-kids (don't get me wrong, I love trench coats) that go around and swear Manson is the Goth King, and Slipknot or Korn is Gothic, it's all good. But it would help if you gained a background knowledge on the subculture, too.

Anyway, point is, who fucking cares what people think or say about you. I've been called a poseur several times and it doesn't bug me. They can think what they'd like: what's important is that I know I'm not, and that I'm confident with who I am and what I like. I don't have to justify my love for Aqua or Gorillaz to some other "Goth," just as you don't have to justify yourself and the things you like to anyone.

Let them keep wagging their tongues, because eventually they're going to get them cut off.

Very well put, Oiseau. This newb should not refrain from liking any bands to prove his 'gothiness' - the trick is to add to your music library, not to downsize it. I will listen to the Sisters or the Cure one moment, and the B-52's or Elton John the next, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[††BlackRose††]

Originally Posted by L'Oiseau Noir

Hey, who cares what they say, or what we think?

I mean, it's one thing if you're going around saying you're Gothic when you don't even listen (or know about) some of the staple bands like Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, etc. etc. Not that I'm saying you can't enjoy other bands (I'm a sucker for powerpop, electro, symphonic metal, and so on) because you can. Also, the things Green Lady said before me are very good pieces of advice and information.

As long as you're not one of those trench-coat-wearing-kids (don't get me wrong, I love trench coats) that go around and swear Manson is the Goth King, and Slipknot or Korn is Gothic, it's all good. But it would help if you gained a background knowledge on the subculture, too.

Anyway, point is, who fucking cares what people think or say about you. I've been called a poseur several times and it doesn't bug me. They can think what they'd like: what's important is that I know I'm not, and that I'm confident with who I am and what I like. I don't have to justify my love for Aqua or Gorillaz to some other "Goth," just as you don't have to justify yourself and the things you like to anyone.

Let them keep wagging their tongues, because eventually they're going to get them cut off.

I completely agree.

Do not let some sterioyping re-evaluate your very existence and your tastes! I know I don't like HIM or Marilyn Manson either, but if you did then you don't have to hide it. So what if you do? I like Muse and they have nothing to do with the Gothic genre. That doesn't stop me from listening to them.

When it comes to fashion, it's purely your choice. Do not follow a person, allowing your creativity to suffer. Don't worry about people, they will always bitch. Nothing will stop that.

[gothicusmaximus]

That you, in asking the forum to evaluate whether you're goth- which request in itself is, as others have noted, a pretty ridiculous one- chose to delineate extensively the manner in which you dress and appear but neglected to even mention goth music indicates that you suffer from a lack of knowledge regarding the goth subculture.
Goth is, in essence, about music. Everything else associated with the whole thing is secondary to, and likely a consequence of, a fondness for 80's goth rock- many members of the subculture appreciate gothic literature because, as is imaginable, it frequently shares themes and imagery with that music, and many who enjoy listening to Bauhaus, The Cure, or The Sisters are initially attracted to these bands by a fascination with the darker aspects of human life with on which their art often comments.
Bear in mind, goth emerged almost 30 years ago- or at least we'll say so for the sake of this post, actually some people might debate this, with protopunk and protogoth and all that it gets nebulous- so, naturally, it's evolved somewhat, and many people are introduced to it through the more visible elements of the scene, fashion most prominent among these, but the way in which one dresses and the extent to which one is a goth are generally independent of one another. Goth fashion exists basically as a device by which one expresses to others an appreciation for gothic rock and all else which that appreciation entails; indeed, many of its critical elements were derived from mimicking the style of those musicians or vocalists involved in popular goth bands.
I'm going to reiterate the idea that you need not listen only to goth music, but, today, generally one can't refer to oneself as a goth unless one likes at least some of it. Dressing goth and regarding oneself as a goth without liking, or even knowing about, goth music makes you kind of a poser. While goth, as it develops, is growing further divorced from what it was initially, as is evidenced, among other things, by the large number of people who think goth is a synonym for 'devil worshipper' and the belief maintained by Gerard Way that goth is about silent films, and in the future it may be totally separated from its rudiments, for now you've got to get down with Murphy and Eldritch in order to hang with these types, unless you want to be totally bored every time music comes up (and it will).

As an addendum to this, I'll say that although I maintain that clothes and to whatever you listen in addition to gothic rock virtually don't matter as far as being considered goth is concerned, people are always free to find what you're wearing or playing in your car lame- I personally wear a cape and have a weakness for indie sensation Bright Eyes. You'll never know when someone will have a beef with you for a dumb reason, but, as a widely applicable heads up, the majority of goths tend to dislike Hot Topic or Marilyn Manson because they take something goths find to be cool and twist it into a commercial product implemented in the exploitation of teenagers undergoing identity crises.

[KontanKarite]

GM wins....

[Green.Lady]

Yeah. He could have ended after

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

That you, in asking the forum to evaluate whether you're goth- which request in itself is, as others have noted, a pretty ridiculous one- chose to delineate extensively the manner in which you dress and appear but neglected to even mention goth music indicates that you suffer from a lack of knowledge regarding the goth subculture.

as that's basically the main thing that's wrong with this picture.

I think we should at least try with this one, though.

[Bete Noire]

Originally Posted by Green.Lady

I think we should at least try with this one, though.

I Agree, if only because he lives the nearest to me out of anybody on this site, and it WOULD be nice to have someone to talk to face to face. So wash his brain and rewrite his mind well.

[Smile]

I agree with some of the other members who've said that asking people on a board whether or not you're goth is tacky. I also believe that the ideology of Goth, the subculture itself, changes over time. Like GM said, Goth was born almost three decades ago, and you can't expect something that is so widely embraced to stay static over such a long period of time. Of course, there are the basic fundamentals of Goth that will never change such as its roots in 80's Goth rock, an appreciation of the darker sides of life, basic clothing style, etc.; but as times change, so will Goth. Basically, there are different ways of being Gothic and expressing it and as long as you are familiar with its history and believe strongly in it because that's what you want (not anyone else or because of peer pressure/media), you are Goth. And finally, anyone who is the least bit Gothic should not adhere to the corporate view of Goth just because they want to be considered Goth by others. That's just lame.

[Chazz]

Thanks for the replies.

Well I have looked into a bit of gothic culture and music, I do really like Siouxsie and the Banshees, my mum got me into them a few years ago.

But ye thanks guys, suppose this topic can end :P

[Chazz]

Bleh!

Forgot to say i've been listening to Bauhaus for quite a while too.

I'm a huge Bowie fan anyway, and you can really see the Bauhaus influence in Bowie. Sorry just thought I'd add that for the sake of it :P

P.S

I wasn't really asking if I was goth or not, but to see if I was mallgoth and if I was sorta wasting my time.

As a lot of people have reffered to me as this for a while now. But thanks for the replies.

[Methadrine]

Originally Posted by Chazz

I wasn't really asking if I was goth or not, but to see if I was mallgoth and if I was sorta wasting my time.

Nah, not a mallgoth but not a goth either, yet. Metalhead comes to mind as of now (based on what you wrote was your favourite band in your pres, and your custom title), will probably change with time since you're young and probably will grow into a certain aspect/style with time.

Don't take the above statement as offensive though, just my view on it.

[Breathless Horror]

Originally Posted by Methadrine

Nah, not a mallgoth but not a goth either, yet. Metalhead comes to mind as of now (based on what you wrote was your favourite band in your pres, and your custom title), will probably change with time since you're young and probably will grow into a certain aspect/style with time.

Don't take the above statement as offensive though, just my view on it.

I started out like that too. But then Maggot and a couple of others showed up and ordered me to look up some real goth music. I remain eternally grateful for that.

I like this guy, can we keep him?

[DeathToLems]

Heh when I read your opening post I thought man this sounds a bit like me!
Did my younger parallel universe self make this post?
Although I'm no skater and I'm not into the black lipstick and white powder face thing (although it does look nifty on me) and I also don't mind listening to Marilyn Manson and I quite like HIM and all the other supposedly non Gothic bands. But that's just me, I'll listen to anything when I'm in the mood for it. Some days I'll just wanna hear a certain George Micheal song! XD

I agree that its the music that comes before the fashion.
I was listening to the music way before I found the shops that sell the good goth clothes.
And i now realised one great thing about being from England, Goth kinda started from England and Punk. yay!
Go England!

[kimaru]

There is a guy at my school who is calling himself a goth because he is painting his face white with what looks to be the cheapest halloween makeup he could find. Then he paints big black circles around his eyes...he's 18, you'd think he would know better. The worst part is that he think's he is better than everyone else now....I have never wanted to hit someone as much as I want to hit him.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by DeathToLems

Heh when I read your opening post I thought man this sounds a bit like me!
Did my younger parallel universe self make this post?
Although I'm no skater and I'm not into the black lipstick and white powder face thing (although it does look nifty on me) and I also don't mind listening to Marilyn Manson and I quite like HIM and all the other supposedly non Gothic bands. But that's just me, I'll listen to anything when I'm in the mood for it. Some days I'll just wanna hear a certain George Micheal song! XD

I agree that its the music that comes before the fashion.
I was listening to the music way before I found the shops that sell the good goth clothes.
And i now realised one great thing about being from England, Goth kinda started from England and Punk. yay!
Go England!

When I used to skate, there was this so called problem I had, I was told that I was not a ‘skater‘ because of my dress sense and music taste. So I stopped, I only skated to lose weight.

I was originally into bands like Queen and David Bowie. I then was introduced to bands such as Souxsee and the banshees and Bauhaus (Wish I knew how to spell them) SATB by my mum and B by my... I'll just call him David..

Anyway, later I got into some theatrical metal such as NightWish and later IronMaiden.
I then started to get into writing poetry about fairies and other mythological creature's. I then found my self liking what is considered 'Gothic' clothing, I started to dress like I liked which later on people referred to me as a goth.

Well that's about all I have to say, thanks.

-Chazz


Sorry for bad grammar but im using my wii to write this.