Oh, for the love of humanity!

[L'Oiseau Noir]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Again, never said that it was.
However, people who think they're good at writing when they aren't annoy me. Generally, to be published, one must be a skilled writer in at least some respect- therefore, hypothetically, if those who hadn't been published would refrain from calling themselves writers, I would be a far happier person.

Ah, it was just a misinterpretation on my part then. My apologies.

Now that you've watered it down, I agree with you. People who are talentless writers really haven't a right (well, that's going a bit far as it, I suppose, falls under freedom of speech) to proclaim they're going to be the next *insert famous writer here* to come to market. They'll learn though, in time, that they weren't as great as they thought they were when they begin to receive a ceaseless amount of let-downs by the publishers or agents.

Then again, it makes you wonder with all the crap on store shelves these days. A good example is Jacqueline Woodson's If You Come Softly.

[Lolly PopMuzik]

Originally Posted by tickingstitch

Pointless statements that keep shitty artists and fanfic writers in business

If you HAVE to defend piss poor fiction, can you at least not sound like a fanfiction.net author?

[Wednesday Friday Addams]

Originally Posted by Lolly PopMuzik

If you HAVE to defend piss poor fiction, can you at least not sound like a fanfiction.net author?

I love you.

[blackwater1110]

Hey gothicus, thank you for defending my statements while I was away. You pretty much took the words out of my mouth. To those of you who were quoting the one sentence where I said "If you aren't published, you aren't a writer," you were taking it out of context. I was coming from the question: how do you distinguish people who pose at being writers, but have no experience in the craft, from people who have trained in the craft and mastered the tools necessary to write? Let me continue the metaphor more overtly to explain my point. Take an untrained guy off the street, and give him an anvil and hammer and tell him to make a sword. He will in all probability do a crappy job. He cannot call himself a blacksmith. If he does, he would be deluded, and people wouldn't say he was a blacksmith, they would say he's crazy or extremely arrogant. Now take the same guy, and train him for two years. He can produce a fine sword in many of his own designs. People commission him to create swords for them. He is now known as a blacksmith. He can call himself a blacksmith, and others will recognize him as such. My point is, it takes a certain amount of expertise in a field, whether it is artistic, theoretic, or physical, before the title really applies. I put forth the benchmark of being published because, at the very least, you can expect some basic elements from a published writer that you might not find in your average, self-righteous 'artiste' writer.

I left the caveat for ticktickstich and Co. about calling yourself a personal writer specifically because I sympathize with your position, in that writing created for self-expression is wonderful, and those that engage in this will have to come to terms with what standards they must meet, if any, to don the identity of "Writer" or "Painter," by themselves, and this is a purely personal thing. But in order to receive recognition from the outside world as being a writer, first they have to like what you write.

Case in point: Emily Dickinson. She wrote for herself and never shared her writing with anyone during her lifetime. She may have considered herself a writer; we'll never know, unless she makes reference to it in her poetry. Her works were then published posthumously, and lots of people liked them; thus, she was called a 'writer.' If her writing had been crap, then by all means she would still be a writer to herself, but others wouldn't call her one. They wouldn't even be aware her works existed.

It seems to me that the tricky scenario is the case in which someone has written a lot of excellent material, better than much of the crap that is already published, but doesn't fit neatly into a marketing plan and thus has no hope of being published or receiving widespread acclaim...essentially, the starving artist. Are these people writers? In the private sense, of course, especially if they consider it their primary profession and not a hobby. In the public sense, it is more difficult to answer. I have friends who have written many things I enjoy, are actively studying writing in college, attend writing seminars, and write daily; they consider it their profession, and to me, they are writers. But I suppose that is where my original benchmark breaks down.

The problem with just saying, "A writer is someone who has achieved a technical expertise in the art of writing," is that it would allow pretty much everybody and their grandmother who can competently string a few competent sentences together to be a writer. The problem with "a writer is someone who is published" is that it ignores those who have talent but haven't gotten into the public eye. If someone can thing of better criteria for discerning what makes a writer, feel free.

[tickingstitch]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Therefore everything goes. So how do you choose which books to read? And you hell better have not have mentioned a favorite author.

That which the reader is attracted to but the relative taste of a reader is in no way a judgment on the work of the author. The reader just gets to be taken into the words the author formed. Genre, style, previous works, similar artist, I am sure you are intelligent enough to think how people find books they would take joy in reading without mockingly tagging something good or bad...

I am sure their are writers I enjoy that u may think is crap. Does it make it crap cause u said so. no. I am attracted to certain styles, authors, themes but it does not mean that everything that does not match my taste is crap. No way. Everything does go. Besides I don’t think I have a favorite author so to say. I know brilliant people, read wonderful books and enjoy it. I always say, oh this is my favorite after I read a book I really enjoyed. haha.

[tickingstitch]

Originally Posted by Lolly PopMuzik

If you HAVE to defend piss poor fiction, can you at least not sound like a fanfiction.net author?

Ummmm did I say that?

[Godslayer Jillian]

I almost agree with you on your last post, but I still have to say my metaphor that a mirror doesn't express and only reflects.
Someone without introspection, merely waved by the smooth waves of societal norms, merely writes what these norms of the collective unconscious compel him to write. This is why it seems like everything's been done. With so many people following the status quo, it's hard that someone hasn't done what another following the exact same steps has accomplished.
As far as a writing goes, it is at least this reflection of his circumstances, but that doesn't necessarily make it beautiful; it can be plain sad.

[tickingstitch]

Sure of course, I never said all writers are deep. You are right some express and some reflect... but it doesnt make it bad. It is what it is... writing...

[Person In A Duck Suit.]

Dr. Seuss pwns all yr asses!

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Person In A Duck Suit.

Dr. Seuss pwns all yr asses!

Meh his best work was cartoons, not his writing

[Person In A Duck Suit.]

Dr. Seuss PWNS all yr ASSES!

[Mir]

Got me a movie, I want you to know, slicing up eyeballs, I want you to know!

[Person In A Duck Suit.]

Girlie so groovy, I want you to know!

[Mir]

Outside there's a box car waiting, outside the family stew, out by the fire breathing, outside we wait until face turns blue.

[Wormboy]

*Throws typewriters into middle of room*
*Leaves*

[Person In A Duck Suit.]

I know the nervous walking, I know the dirty beard hangs out by the box car waiting, take me away to nowhere plains!!

[Duane]

The monkeys are screaming, they fling poo onto the walls, shaking their cages, trying to break free.

[Person In A Duck Suit.]

Hey, Duane?

[Duane]

Yeah????????

Damn 10 character limit...

[Person In A Duck Suit.]

Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Duane]

Hello to you!

[Person In A Duck Suit.]

Spam wiff me in mah spam thread!

[Lolly PopMuzik]

Originally Posted by tickingstitch

Ummmm did I say that?

Actually, the majority of your arguments here are basically that sentiment (Read: It's their story, crappy though it may be! Don't like, don't read!). But the scary thing is, the spelling in your posts is better than the large part of the fiction over there.

Off topic: You said you're in San Diego too? (But with this, you can probably already guess who I am)

[Person In A Duck Suit.]

I fink yoo is well under rated on this here forum, toots.

[Wormboy]

Originally Posted by tickingstitch

Their is no such thing as a shitty writer.

BULLSHIT

BULLSHIT