Sophie Lancaster Court Case News - "Goth clothes 'promted killing'".

[Edward Strange]

I just signed it, hopefully something will come of the petition... Let us not let Miss Lancaster's death be meaningless!

[Anti-Mindvirus]

Originally Posted by Wormboy

You know that's a Joseph Stalin quote right?

So? does that make it any less true?

[Jaye Jang]

Dear DeathToLems,
I don't think you can sign that if you are not in the UK. However, I did contact the family and asked how those of us here in the US could help. They are trying to come up with something we can wear (i.e. bracelets with the S.O.P.H.I.E. logo) to show our support. Good luck on the petition though.

[Edward Strange]

Article/interview with Sylvia Lancaster, Sophie's mother.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/7321643.stm

Mother's 'contempt' for killers


The mother of Sophie Lancaster says she feels "nothing but contempt" for her daughter's killers.

Ryan Herbert, 16, and Brendan Harris, 15, kicked the 20-year-old to death in Bacup, Lancashire, simply because she was a Goth, Preston Crown Court heard.

The pair, said to have acted like "wild animals", were convicted of murder and will be sentenced on 28 April.

Sylvia Lancaster said the death of her daughter had also left her doubting if she could continue as a youth worker.

Neither of the teenagers knew Ms Lancaster or her 21-year-old boyfriend Robert Maltby, who survived the attack.

The court was told their only motive was that they simply looked different to them.

On Sunday, Ms Lancaster said: "To choose to beat and stamp a young girl to death just because she looks different and show no remorse afterwards is just so sick.

"I feel nothing but contempt for them."

Speaking after the conviction, Ms Lancaster, said she hoped society would reflect on the killing and examine ways of avoiding a similar crime in the future.

Now the 52-year-old is questioning her role working with young offenders at youth advisory care service Connexions.

She said: "I've always cared passionately about trying to help young people like them [Herbert and Harris] to find a way out of the cycle of violence and crime a lot of them have grown up with, but I don't know if I can continue.

"To do that job, you have to be totally non-judgmental.

"Now, I don't know if after losing my daughter in such a senseless way, I can look them in the eye and bring myself to feel enough sympathy and understanding for them.

"I just don't know how I feel to be honest."


Sophie Lancaster, a gap year student, died from serious head injuries two weeks after the attack in Stubbylee Park in the early hours of 11 August 2007.

Harris, of Spring Terrace, Bacup, had denied the murder charge. He said he had punched Mr Maltby once after drinking two litres of cider, a bottle of strong lager and some peach schnapps.

Herbert, of Rossendale Crescent, Bacup, who had also been drinking alcohol throughout the night, admitted murdering Miss Lancaster before he was due to go on trial.

Both teenagers pleaded guilty to causing grievous bodily harm to Mr Maltby

Three other youths, two aged 17 and one 16, who cannot be named, also pleaded guilty to assaulting Mr Maltby.

[Pye]

The petition is now closed just to let people know. There were 7,036 signatures in total.

[raggedyanne]

Wow. To be a youth worker and then have kids just like the one she helped kill her daughter like that . . . it has to hurt. I hope she chooses to continue helping the kids, so that they might prevent another tragedy such as this.

[Edward Strange]

Here is the response to the online petition to government (as we can do such strange and terrible things here in the UK) to increase the definition of hate crime to include appearance and subcultural interests.
It got about six thousand signatures I think (I was one of them!).
And recently the government sent everyone a nice email saying:

"You have signed an e-petition suggesting that the definition of 'hate crime' be widened to include crimes committed on the basis of a person's appearance or interests.

The Government's current definition of 'hate crime' is as follows:

* A 'hate incident' is any incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by hate or prejudice.
* A 'hate crime' is any incident which contributes to a criminal offence, perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by prejudice or hate.

Within this broad definition, legislation focuses on hate crimes on the basis of race, faith, sexual orientation, disability and gender identity - and it is these categories which are currently monitored. We do not plan to extend this to include hatred against people on the basis of their appearance or sub-cultural interests. These are not intrinsic characteristics of a person and could be potentially be very wide ranging, including for example allegiance to football teams - which makes this a very difficult category to legislate for. However, it is important to remember that this is within a legal framework that assumes that all violence is a very serious matter; and in addition, judges have discretion to look at a wide range of mitigating and aggravating factors when they are sentencing - and are likely to view attacks motivated by hatred of this kind as very serious indeed."

This is a little disappointing, however their argument does have merit, much as I hate to admit it. Increasing the definition of hate crime would mean that there would be harsher sentences for criminals guilty of crimes motivated by hate.
In certain circumstances (i.e. murder), this doesn't matter because a judge has only one sentence he can give, that being life.
However, in lesser offences, where a judge has discretion when deciding on what sentence to give, making a crime a hate crime means that he has to give a stiffer sentence.

The government not expanding hate crime to include subcultural interests and appearances means that a judge is not obliged to give harsher sentences than they normally would for a non-hate crime.
However, as the judge has discretion in these matters, he can elect to give those harsher sentences anyway, assuming the judge feels this is necessary.
As the response says, all violent crime is treated very seriously.

Also, there is a slightly darker motivation behind the government's refusal, other than a feeling that current legislation is enough.
That being what is referred too in legal circles as the 'floodgates' argument. That being that if something were included in law, the courts would be flooded with such cases, which would be immensely expensive and not in the interests of the public or justice.
A classic example of this is how you can not claim for nervous shock from what you have seen on the television.

As the response mentions, by expanding the definition, almost everything becomes a hate crime. Which is not in the public interest. I don't know how many of you have know about current UK affairs but we are currently going through a prison crisis (i.e. there's not enough room for them all). So handing out these stiff sentences for something like, an assault or criminal damage based on what football team someone likes, would only add to the prison crisis and wouldn't really solve anything.

So, much as I hate to admit it, in my opinion as an (almost) member of the Criminal Justice System, I am content with the government's actions in relation to this issue. For the time being anyway.

[ThreeEyesOni]

I am really, really hoping that these two get life in jail.

Even more than that, though, I'm dismayed that two of the other individuals have apparently gotten away without murder charges being pressed.

[Edward Strange]

They are being charged with GBH with Intent though, which is pretty much one down from murder and can come with a life sentence.
It probably won't.. But the possibility is there.

[ThreeEyesOni]

Ah, good; I hadn't seen anything saying that (I'd read several other articles on this quite some time ago).

I think that one of the worse things about this whole business is the relative lack of media coverage compared to similar events. Not as compared to important things (I'm still grumbling about the near-total lack of Bhutto Assassination coverage, considering the current president has all but admitted causing it), since there are indeed apples and oranges when it comes to tragedy (I think it's because there's only so much major tragedy that a person can reasonably hope to absorb).

I'm hoping for a little snippit of coverage on the news after this kid gets sentanced.

[Edward Strange]

Sentences are handed down on Monday I think, so fingers crossed!

[Edward Strange]

Right, well, today is Monday. I'm waiting with baited breath to hear the sentences and I'll update you all as soon as I hear anything.

Hopefully the BBC will mention it otherwise I might have to do a bit of creative digging.

[ThreeEyesOni]

Link Here

Two teenagers have been jailed for a total of 33 years for the murder of a 20-year-old woman who was killed because she was dressed as a goth.

Sophie LancasterSophie Lancaster was kicked and stamped to death as she begged the pair to stop beating her boyfriend in a park in Bacup, Lancashire.

Ryan Herbet, 16, has now be sent to prison for a minimum of 16 years and three months after confessing to the murder and inflicting grievous bodily harm on goth Robert Maltby.

Brendan Harris, 15, was sentenced to at least 17 years and 106 days. He was found guilty of killing Miss Lancaster but admitted GBH.

Not quite the time that I would have hoped for, but one can allways wish that they get into a few prison scuffles to tack on a few more years.

[Edward Strange]

And the BBC article.

Boys sentenced over Goth murder

Two teenage boys have been jailed for life for the murder of a woman who was killed for dressing as a Goth.

Sophie Lancaster was kicked and stamped to death by Brendan Harris, 15, and Ryan Herbert, 16, in Stubbylee Park in Bacup, Lancashire, last summer.

The pair turned on Miss Lancaster, 20, after she tried to get Harris, Herbert and three other youths to stop attacking her boyfriend Robert Maltby.

Harris must serve a minimum of 18 years and Herbert, 16 years, the judge said.

Miss Lancaster, a gap-year student, cradled 21-year-old Mr Maltby as she begged the gang to stop beating him in the park in August 2007.

Harris and Maltby then turned their violence against her.

The attackers did not know the couple, who were both Goths, and the only motive was they simply looked different, the court heard.

Three other teenagers, two aged 17 and a 16-year-old were also jailed for the attack on Mr Maltby.

Brothers Joseph, 17, and Danny Hulme, 16, both of Landgate, Whitworth, near Bacup, and Daniel Mallett, 17, of Rockcliffe Drive, Bacup, all pleaded guilty to grievous bodily harm with intent on Mr Maltby.

Mallett was sentenced to four years and four months and the Hulme brothers for five years and 10 months each.

Brendan Harris had denied murder, but was convicted last month, while Ryan Herbert pleaded guilty before the trial started.

Passing sentence at Preston Crown Court, Judge Anthony Russell QC described the attack as "feral thuggery" which raised serious questions about the "sort of society which exists in this country".

He added: "This was a terrible case which has shocked and outraged all who have heard about it.

"At least wild animals, when they hunt in packs, have a legitimate reason for so doing, to obtain food.

"You have none and your behaviour on that night degrades humanity itself."

The judge described the Goth community as "perfectly peaceful law-abiding people who pose no threat to anybody".

He said: "This was a hate crime against these completely harmless people targeted because their appearance was different to yours."

'Terrifying place'

Goths emerged as a youth subculture in the early 1980s.

Although initially used to describe a form of music, it has evolved to encompass literature, art and fashion, with its exponents typically dressing in dark clothing.

Earlier, the judge heard that Mr Maltby, who was not in court, now finds the world terrifying and still suffers long term physical and emotional damage.

In a statement read to the court, Mr Maltby said: "I really just like to think I'm now only eight-months-old. I'm finding the whole world a terrifying place."

After the hearing, the Chief Crown Prosecutor for Lancashire Robert Marshall said: "Very occasionally, in spite of all the tragic and distressing cases that the CPS has to deal with, we come across a case that stands out as truly shocking.

"The murder of Sophie Lancaster and the vicious attack on her boyfriend Robert Maltby stand out for their utter pointlessness and sheer brutality.

"Worse still, it seems very likely that the attack started as a form of amusement for those involved."

He extended his sympathy to the families and outside court, Miss Lancaster's brother, Adam, 23, thanked people for their support.

"Although the sentences seem fitting and appropriate, no sentence is long enough to compensate for the loss of Sophie," he said.

His mother, Sylvia, added: "Justice can never be done because it will never bring her back."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/7370637.stm

[Paigeybobert]

Sad shit. .

[honeythorn]

I tell you now, those cunts will come out of that prison looking like fucking heroes to their mates. That sentence is nowhere near long enough. Nowhere near.

[DeathToLems]

I agree. What the hell! These stupid fucks should have gotten 30 years! or more. Infact fuck em they should be put in a pit of rabbid beasts and eatten alive!.
Fuck!


Oh wells, What can we do? It's the law that makes the choices. *shrug*

[KontanKarite]

If sentences are handled the same as they are in the states there, a felony and the nature of this crime will follow them for their lives.

In the states, it is said that you can't even work at McDonalds with felonies such as this. :-/

I don't know. Part of me agreed with DTL, but another part of me wonders if there's something that society or people can do themselves to make the world better in some way.

After reading this and reading a very in depth article on the war in Iraq right now, I just feel... kinda helpless about shit. What needs to happen? Are people so far removed from rationale that we can't even begin to enjoy diversity amongst people? Must we silence every mouth, clothe every back in drab gray rags, suppress every form of self expression until we have uniformity instead of unity?

These boys... they might be sorry for what they did after the sentence. But I feel that after the time is up, they'll still be proud of what they did. What then? Does society simply close its doors to these boys forever, leaving them to become the worst forms of social pariahs? No better than strays.

If I were to gather my friends and loved ones, find a remote place from society and start a collective, would it be wrong for me to do this? To turn my back on the stranger?

I know, I'm rambling. I'm just so tired of the violence that seems to thrive these days. If it's not needless wars against unseen ideas, it's people just being violent to each other out right. No reason at all. Because they had black cloth on their backs. Think about that. Because they had a piece of black cloth... on their backs...

[DeathToLems]

I know what you mean Kon mate ...*sigh*
I just hope I'm dead before I get killed by something as pointless as war.
Humans fighting humans.
Fucking animals! Actually even animals only fight for a good reason.

All I can truly say now is Rest In Peace Sophie. Seriously You really are in a better place now.

[Jonathan]

I just learned about this horrible tragedy today.

I'm somewhere between crushed and furious. Maybe both at the same time. That poor family.

It is the senselessness that really gets to me. I just cannot understand at all how things like this can even happen.

[TopHaggardDoll]

I remember seeing the case in a newspaper the day I was getting a train to York to see my girlfriend.
My nan said to me before I left "Don't get beaten up"

I could've cried or killed when I read that. I'm sure none of us understand why they did it. In this day and age you'd think that all this crap would be left behind...but the youth in the UK is appalling.
They all need a punch in the face if you ask me.

[Underwater Ophelia]

What makes me upset is that you guys were "crushed and furious," and "could've cried or killed" over this.

PEOPLE GET MURDERED EVERY DAY.
Children are starving RIGHT NOW.
Men and women are being ***** right now!

But you don't get all broken up over that. It seems you guys only care about this because Sophie liked dressing in black. That's bullshit.

[Apathy's_Child]

Senseless death is ALWAYS sad, though. Should people only care if the death toll runs into double figures?

[Underwater Ophelia]

No, and I feel I implied the opposite. It is sad that she died, but people on the site are losing their minds over it. They don't lose their minds when someone is beaten to death for being gay. Or black. Or female.

[Apathy's_Child]

Well, I guess it's natural for people to eat their hearts out more over someone they identify with. Not fair, perhaps, but natural.