Sophie Lancaster Court Case News - "Goth clothes 'promted killing'".

[Underwater Ophelia]

Seems almost selfish.

[Godslayer Jillian]

To me it seems sad. Sad that that excuse is the only form of justifying empathy due to style.
Seriously; a couple of months ago, there were bullet showers from one drug cartel to another in the newspaper pages virtually every day. Now the military has come and set up a virtual police state, and drug traffic has stopped but crime has gone up. Now, that affects a whole city, a city that was named the "most promising for development" in the world; but not many people hear about this, do they?
Or how about the incident in Gaza in the politics section? Much more important and terrifying, and yet it doesn't and won't receive as many replies as this one.

[Jonathan]

Well, it is kind of presumptuous to assume we can get pretty torn up over things without feeling anything for anyone else ever.

Would it be more acceptable to you if I include a footnote giving mention to every other horrible thing that I've heard about? That might make for a long, self-indulgent read that would be obscenely off topic.

I care about this, because from what I see a genuinely sweet little girl was brutally stomped to death. That is just unacceptable, regardless of what she happened to be wearing. The fact that there's really no way to rationalize what happened is really unsettling for me.

This event is a stark example that I can look at and see just how atrocious our species can be. Pointing out into the ether and saying "a million kids starve" or "lots of people die in drunk driving accidents" just doesn't pack the same kind of emotional punch as seeing the kid's portrait at a park surrounded by mourners to me. Your mileage may vary.

Reading about some gangs shooting each other and crime going up is not good, but it is on a whole other level as seeing that girl's picture after reading about what she went through. There's a staggering difference in the level of abstraction there to the point of comparing apples and oranges. Sorry if I am not as enlightened as I should be.

[Apathy's_Child]

I get it. As someone to whom the situation of Palestine is something which occupies a great deal of my thought, i CAN understand why people find this so shocking.

Firstly, it happened in a First World country. This brings it closer to home, and si8nce we're basically a selfish species, this means that (for better or worse) people are more likely to sit up and take notice.

Also, there was no ideology attached. They did it for the fun of kicking someone to death. in light of this, it suggests that although we lament violence, as a species we seek it out even when there's no rationale whtsoever. It's almost like we've pursued violence for so long that it's irrevocably locked into our genes.

Personally, I think it pales in comparison to everyday atrocities which take place in less fortunate countries. But I don't think it makes people selfish to take this to heart more than other, bigger events. Maybe it's just a sympton of how our media underreports these other events, and reinforces the idea that the life of a First World citizen is worth more than that of, say, a Palestinian.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

No, and I feel I implied the opposite. It is sad that she died, but people on the site are losing their minds over it. They don't lose their minds when someone is beaten to death for being gay. Or black. Or female.

Well... you're wrong. I'm offended by your assumption. But whatever.

[Edward Strange]

I must say I'm a little miffed myself. Yes, it might be a little bit selfish too focus on one act over all others, but this is a Gothic website and this is the news section that deals with Gothic news.
While it is perhaps unfair not to give the same level of empathy too all other heinous acts, is that even humanly possible? As someone mentioned earlier, if we were to write a foot note about everything that happened we'd never get anything done!

If it bothers you so much, why don't lead us by example?

I think the reason we give this story so much attention much because it is something that is very close to us and something we are all familiar with (to varying degrees), feeling threatened or targeted by other members of the community.
While it's perhaps rather a cruel comparison to make, if you mother was to be beaten to death, it would be a little harsh if someone said to you "People die every day, get over it."
Perhaps we aren't talking on the same scale (Sophie wasn't our mother after all), but I would like to think it captures a little bit of my argument. We feel close and empathic to Sophie and Robert because they, so to speak, are 'one of us'.

And I would have hoped we would show solidarity to other members of the subculture, especially when something as terrible as this happens. I don't think that's selfish at all.

Yes, far worse things happen in the world every day and I think to some extent we all acknowledge that. But I don't think you can humanly shower every story in the news with the same attention we've given Sophie and Robert's.
What would you have us do instead?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Well... you're wrong. I'm offended by your assumption. But whatever.

Kontan, if YOU get upset over that type of thing, then obviously you're not the kind of person I'm talking about.

Like I already made clear, I'm talking about what I can see on this website.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Edward Strange

I must say I'm a little miffed myself. Yes, it might be a little bit selfish too focus on one act over all others, but this is a Gothic website and this is the news section that deals with Gothic news.
While it is perhaps unfair not to give the same level of empathy too all other heinous acts, is that even humanly possible? As someone mentioned earlier, if we were to write a foot note about everything that happened we'd never get anything done!

If it bothers you so much, why don't lead us by example?

I think the reason we give this story so much attention much because it is something that is very close to us and something we are all familiar with (to varying degrees), feeling threatened or targeted by other members of the community.
While it's perhaps rather a cruel comparison to make, if you mother was to be beaten to death, it would be a little harsh if someone said to you "People die every day, get over it."
Perhaps we aren't talking on the same scale (Sophie wasn't our mother after all), but I would like to think it captures a little bit of my argument. We feel close and empathic to Sophie and Robert because they, so to speak, are 'one of us'.

And I would have hoped we would show solidarity to other members of the subculture, especially when something as terrible as this happens. I don't think that's selfish at all.

Yes, far worse things happen in the world every day and I think to some extent we all acknowledge that. But I don't think you can humanly shower every story in the news with the same attention we've given Sophie and Robert's.
What would you have us do instead?

The "hey, get over it" comment doesn't apply here, because I'm not saying you should feel that way about this at all. I'm saying that it irritates me that there is a thread about an entire family having been tortured for literally years, and people say things like, "Oh, that sucks," but when it's a goth person who suffers, it's the end of the world.

The separation is what bothers me. You said yourself--you're showing solidarity to other members of YOUR subculture. What I'm wondering is why someone has to be a goth to get everyone so riled up.

[ThreeEyesOni]

Someone doesn't. And you're making the big (and quite largely incorrect) assumption that because someone posts about this here instead of something else there, it's due to only caring about one.

Personally, this case does bother me more than the Palestinians being killed. Why? A great number of reasons. For starters there's the fact that one set of deaths were the result of open conflict and the other wasn't. One of the sets of deaths is possibly a genuine mistake (or, while it's not much of a consolation, a side-casualty of open conflict) while the other was a bunch of drunk kids that thought it was fun to do. One happened in the middle of "The Granny State" while the other happened in a place where unfortunately people die every godforsaken day.

It all combines to allow me to feel just a little less ill inside about one than the other. Strange as it may sound, I personally don't like thinking about death, murder and violence of the planet 24/7. I really don't. That's really, really damn hard considering the fact that I am indeed pretty well informed about the world in these respects.

Are there some comments here that are a little over reacting? Yeah, most likely. But they arn't any more or less over reacting due to the fact that the poster didn't similarly weep in another thread. They're just a little over reacting in and of themselves.

[Jonathan]

Considering the state of the world, over-empathizing is probably the least of our worries. I don't think it is over-reacting to get a little teary at the end of a movie, song, or story, and those things are complete fantasy. If it can appropriate at times for things that are total fiction, then to get affected from time to time by things that happen to real people isn't necessarily going over the top in my opinion.

If more people could open themselves up to feel something genuine for others, we might find ourselves in a better position to address the problems that need solving.

**redacted text**

I hope everyone involved will be able to find some peace.